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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Adlian View Post
    Simple and yet true explanation
    I suspect it will only be for a small time. When they realize it's not face roll to top dps.

  2. #42
    Every class appears easy when the audience observes someone who has mastered said class. My guild swears that all warlocks have to do is spam incinerate and top meters and that all boomkins (wife plays one) have to do is run around spamming moonfires. We have a running joke now amongst our raid group and some others on our servers, all warlocks do is spam incinerate, while monks spin around and afk, all the while the mage hits enter by accident and we get 111111112111111112111111112 for his rotation spammed in chat.

    MoP discussed early on the aspect of the bring the player and not class. 2 equal geared players enter the group yet yield vastly different results. Also the raid utility, who gets the brez off first, pops the def cd and self heals/off heals appropriately. Before joining my current 25m H raid group I was in a failing 10m group; during this time I often found that I had symbiosis and used my rejuv on cd on the tank due to lack of heals from the group. Obviously there are larger problems to groups but there is so much more to a given class/spec than anything a dps meter can show.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It prevents others having a niche, of course it's bad. No spec should be Master of Everything like Destruction is right now.
    destruction is hardly master of everything, it only really reigns supreme in 10m and even then it comes down to what strat you use for the encounter like not aoeing the reflection on sha and just let tanks aoe them down, isnt going to benefit destro much,. in 25m destro is only really good on fights like siegecrafter, galakras and garrosh.
    Last edited by almara2512; 2014-03-24 at 08:35 PM.

  4. #44
    Titan Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    destruction is hardly master of everything, it only really reigns supreme in 10m and even then it comes down to what strat you use for the encounter like not aoeing the reflection on sha and just let tanks aoe them down, isnt going to benefit destro much,. in 25m destro is only really good on fights like siegecrafter, galakras and garrosh.
    Destruction scales better with lower gear levels.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    destruction is hardly master of everything, it only really reigns supreme in 10m and even then it comes down to what strat you use for the encounter like not aoeing the reflection on sha and just let tanks aoe them down, isnt going to benefit destro much,. in 25m destro is only really good on fights like siegecrafter, galakras and garrosh.
    The point was more that it really has no 'weakness'. Every situation, it's either 'Good' or 'Excellent'; the other specs have various things they excel at, but equally things they really aren't so good at and frankly those things they're good at just can't paper over those cracks. If you're going to play one spec, you can play Destruction and do it everywhere; the other two you'll still want a Destruction off-spec.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    I don't see why that would be the case. Warlocks run around instant dotting mobs and never taking damage when leveling. They're arguably tied for easiest class to level alongside Hunter.
    Easy =/= Fast.

    Fast is what people really want when leveling alts. Sure, running around you can dot up stuff use drain life and it's EASY, but this ignores a couple key points:
    a. Leveling in dungeons is the fastest way by far these days to level. Affliction in particular is terrible in those (might as well afk), and queing as only dps sucks.
    b. Even out in the quest world, a Hunter or Warrior (prob many other classes) can two shot quest mobs up until pretty high levels. A warlock needs more than two globals to kill something.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    So what should Destro not be able to do? AoE, cleaving and burst are basic parts of any specs tool kit.

    You sound increasingly bitter and jelly.
    Not if you're a pure class. Nowadays we have the "pure tax" where you're forced to respec between fights (if you're lucky you can do that without either reforging or having a suboptimal gear setup) which is falsely advertised as "versatility of pure DPS" (read: spreading DPS tools around the 3 specs rather than giving those 3 specs all the tools) while hybrid DPS get everything in one spec because... well they only have 1 DPS spec or 2 at most.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    The point was more that it really has no 'weakness'. Every situation, it's either 'Good' or 'Excellent'; the other specs have various things they excel at, but equally things they really aren't so good at and frankly those things they're good at just can't paper over those cracks. If you're going to play one spec, you can play Destruction and do it everywhere; the other two you'll still want a Destruction off-spec.
    What exactly is Demo's weakness? Its damage numbers are generally lower than Destruction or Affliction however this is not a spec design flaw merely a balancing one. The only one I can think of is low ranged aoe effectiveness which I constantly see people trying to fix.

    In my opinion at least Demo and Destruction both are jack of all trades specs in design merely Destruction is slightly over-tuned in many areas.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    Not if you're a pure class.
    Untrue. During MoP beta, time and time again the idea of a hybrid tax or a pure class tax was shot down by devs. There were lengthy discussions about it with devs on twitter and in this very forum.

    They want a Destro lock to feel like she can be a Destro lock and an Aff lock to feel the same. They even expressed regret in allowing dual speccing. In part because it made players feel that they had to respec for every fight. Something they are clearly on record as not wanting.

    Every class has their own way of bursting, cleaving, aoeing, moving, mitigating damage etc.

    Some are better at certain things then others. Each has there own style and feel. If a class has no way to handle a given DPS job that it is given, that is a problem to solve. Not a model to emulate.
    Last edited by Grizelda; 2014-03-25 at 08:44 PM.

  10. #50
    I'm happy that there are a lot of locks out there now because its easier to stand out now with all the new characters...

  11. #51
    High Overlord Pulsar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    -Warriors getting a talent turning Prot into DPS spec. Any chance Warlocks could get a talent changing Demonology into tank spec?
    -Not right now. Turning Prot into DPS is trivial compared to turning Demonology into Tank.

    Right now?
    If a talent or something actually made Demo a tank, I'd go ape shit.
    Last edited by Pulsar; 2014-03-26 at 06:58 AM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugarfree View Post
    Destro is also the only pvp spec you need to grind gear through randoms and uncoordinated BG's. Demo and Affliction all suck, their damage are not worth it. Affliction is back to where it was in Cataclysm, a dispel deterrent, nothing more.
    Affliction PvP in cata was borderline OP in the right comps and highly viable in many more, I dont know what game have you been playing during cata. I still play cata AT and affly is in a better shape PvP wise then in mop.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian9 View Post
    What exactly is Demo's weakness? Its damage numbers are generally lower than Destruction or Affliction however this is not a spec design flaw merely a balancing one. The only one I can think of is low ranged aoe effectiveness which I constantly see people trying to fix.

    In my opinion at least Demo and Destruction both are jack of all trades specs in design merely Destruction is slightly over-tuned in many areas.
    Ranged AoE, sustained AoE, Cleaving, Multidotting, target switching... Basically anything that involves more than single target or burst damage. Which means any realistic encounter.

    Like I said, you can play Demo or Affliction mostly but will want a Destruction off-spec. You can play Destruction anywhere.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Ranged AoE, sustained AoE, Cleaving, Multidotting, target switching... Basically anything that involves more than single target or burst damage. Which means any realistic encounter.

    Like I said, you can play Demo or Affliction mostly but will want a Destruction off-spec. You can play Destruction anywhere.
    Ranged AoE yes one of the problems that people constantly try to think of fixes for and the only weakness that crossed my mind at the time of posting.

    Sustained AoE, in the purview of my question yes. Yet you go on to talk about any realistic encounter maybe the two of us fight different bosses in different games because I could have sworn that it wasn't sustained AoE that was the important one.

    Yes destruction has cleave and Demonology does not this is both the saving feature of destruction and a damming one as it is one of the few things that remained effective when Destruction was not yet contributes to the spec being OP now. On the other hand the lack of a rare feature among ranged dps is not a weakness in my opinion.

    How can you bring up Multidotting as a weakness after saying Destruction has none.

    Target switching. I don't even have any counter points to this.

    All legitimate points from someone who clearly has a higher mastery of the spec than myself. While I don't agree with all of them they are at the very least concerns.

    However the ability to do any of these things in my eyes at least is not what made Destruction so strong this tier. Sburn executes on the other hand an ability that was always a strength of the spec ran out of control with all the little adds running around (which also happens to create a lot of garbage dps that I at least haven't found an easy way to isolate out). I would argue that even removing the elusive cleave of Havoc would not have shut the spec down (clearly it would be diminished).

    At the end of the day you have me convinced on Demonology weaknesses vs. Destruction. Personally I would like to see your statement at the end about Destruction being playable anywhere extended to all specs though the likelihood of this happening without diluting spec flavor is admittedly slim.

  15. #55
    I think one of the challenges with Demo AoE is that Hellfire, while being horribly ineffective at range, is such a freaking cool looking spell and I would hate to lose it.

    It might be cool to enable hellfire to be centered on your pet.

    Clearly it needs a fix.

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