Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
LastLast
  1. #161
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Frogspoison#1419 Battletag
    Posts
    3,923
    Quote Originally Posted by VoidyTv View Post
    Imho changing big-V to Resolve will sort out nothing unless blizzard will make each tank benefit from it in same way/fashion. For now Paladin don't even work with Resolve because it is buffing only word of glory which is less attractive than SotR (flat dmg reduction) for bears resolve is questionable, for warriors and dk's it is amazing. So i don't think they have everything worked out.

    Also think about gear, gear now will not have parry/dodge/shield block (long gone, never forget!) but crit/haste/mastery as primary stats so... tanks will get GCD reduction and a lot of changes that you don't keep in your mind right now. I expect tanks not to do so shitty dmg after all but blizzard will probably intentionally nerf it even more.

    Imho with nerf overall to tanks damage we shall see even less tanks and longer queues simply playing tank requires the person to take responsibility. Yes all you do is taking responsibility you don't need to know what are you doing really. Blizzard wants to change this but imho will fail and revert to "dumb mechanics for tanks" as they have problems to convince people to play tanks. What we need is more class to have tank option
    For Resolve, a quick list of abilities it affects...

    Paladin- Flash of Light, WoG, Sacred Shield, Eternal Flame, Seal of Insight, T90 talent.
    Druid- Frenzied Regeneration, Mastery Shield, Tooth and Claw, Lvl 90 talent healing. May also affect lvl 30 talent healing, and Leader of the Pack.
    DK- Blood Shield, Rune Shield, Lvl 75 talent healing, DS healing.
    Warrior- Shield Barrier, MS healing, LvL 30 talent healing.
    Monk- Guard, Expel Harm, GotO orbs, Surging Mists, T30 talent healing.

    Paladins/Druids get significant benefit from it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, for tank DAMAGE, the number blizz is throwing around is 75% of a dps's dps.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  2. #162
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,241
    Quote Originally Posted by Orloth View Post
    Some people will learn or offspec tank just to get through the ques faster, thus shortening ques for everyone. Same goes for all pure dps getting a tank/healing spec, in my opinion.
    Which also has side benefits. As someone who has raided as all 3 roles, I feel, if only for fun, every player should try doing several of the roles in the game. If anything, you get to figure out what your raiders are trying to do, and especially if you generally played DPS, it gives you some appreciation for what goes on behind the scenes to keep the raid alive.

    (I also think everyone should play DPS now and then too, for that matter, but that's easier since every class has a DPS spec.)

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    For Resolve, a quick list of abilities it affects...

    Paladin- Flash of Light, WoG, Sacred Shield, Eternal Flame, Seal of Insight, T90 talent.
    Druid- Frenzied Regeneration, Mastery Shield, Tooth and Claw, Lvl 90 talent healing. May also affect lvl 30 talent healing, and Leader of the Pack.
    DK- Blood Shield, Rune Shield, Lvl 75 talent healing, DS healing.
    Warrior- Shield Barrier, MS healing, LvL 30 talent healing.
    Monk- Guard, Expel Harm, GotO orbs, Surging Mists, T30 talent healing.

    Paladins/Druids get significant benefit from it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, for tank DAMAGE, the number blizz is throwing around is 75% of a dps's dps.
    Maybe it will sound a bit strange (try to understand me i'm a noob) but:

    Paladin
    a)Flash of Light or WoG ? In most of the time you want SotR 100% uptime so you can think about WG only when you have !@£!@£ tone of Holy Power and more than 100% uptime secured for SotR (but it last like what 3 sec ) so you need a solid 6 Holy Power in timeframe of 4.5 sec to actually be even able to press WG in general.
    b) Sacred Shield absorb is such a minor mechanics, don't take me wrong but its not something that changes your gameplay in a drastic way.
    c) Eternal Flame eats Holy Power, don't know if its a good idea if you can... spend it on SotR ! Why Tank would even consider this, it is healing spell.
    d) Seal of Insight YES it will work for it but...this spell heales most of the time goes into overhealing or from glyph of battle healer to injured people. But blizzard said they are nerfing "offheals" and we don't even know if the glyph will make it to live as we know how broken it is.
    e) Level 90 talent giving you 5%-100% more healing as a cooldown doesn't affect tanks (paladin) at all.

    For paladin we have 1 offheal mechanics which resolve benefits... so basically if you have or don't it doesn't matter right now.

    For tanks top priority is damage reduction so dmg reduction and absorbs mechanics are absolute prio, healing mechanics are not considered important unless it is a specific to encounter mechanics. So if its not absorb or damage reduction it is not important.

    Druid:
    a) Renzeid Regeneration is not important mechanics, it eats 60 rage that could go into active mitigation skill, so why would i proc a hot if my top priority is 100% uptime of Dodge Active mitigation ? Unless mechanics on boss demands from me this skill i almost never use it. Waste of rage, not important.
    b) Mastery Shield (this is for WoD, currently we have +% of armour) we shall see how much it will affect it, don't know numbers now but for now it will give us close to none benefit. New Mastery doesn't sound too OP as it is based around being hit and procing absorb that could be wasted if we dodge too much
    c) Dream of Cenarius / Nature Vigil. Well that is another joke/lie ? first of all no tank will drop ocassional free healing touches on anyone unless its a broken boss mechanics, simply GCD's are wasted this way. Natures Vigil which seems our only choice in this lvl of talents will be eaither ignored or macored under every single skill to proc it on CD without thinking... same as with paladin buff to offheals

    So in case of Druid and Paladin resolve will give you minor (druid) to none (paladin) benefit while...
    DK's procs absorbs and selfheals as part of rotation, everything affected by resolve.
    Warriors active mitigation around absorbs super benefit for warrior from resolve. No doubt biggest winner for this change.
    Monk - Guard work with it, Expel Harm, Orbs... almost everything benefits. Again question... surging mist ? that ain't even Brewmasters thing!

    No Paladins and druids with current alpha notes will not benefit from it. Paladins don't benefit from it at all. If Paladin is doing 20k HPS from his healing now with this change he will do 25k HPS but its healing, something off/side that is not part of his mechanics. Core mechanics of Druid and Paladin don't benefit from it almost at all.

    Also check again how resolve works, its only tank buff s you probably made a mistake and thought it is for everyone. Nope its a tank buff. So if you are resto/holy or any other not tanking spec you don't get it.

    As for 75% dmg on tanks...that would be 0 nerf to tanks damage as currently it is around this numbers, only on some bosses where tanks can cleave they get a lot more but that is basic maths if you can cleave N targets (N > 1) you will do proportionally more dmg. Imho expect WOTLK style so top tank dmg = 30-50% good dps.
    Last edited by VoidyTv; 2014-04-18 at 10:00 PM.
    Warlock Tanking info page - http://warlock-tank.lambdacu.be/
    He will learn... no king rules forever; only death is eternal!

  4. #164
    Sparkuggz currently sitting at 8/9 challenge mode tanking role in DA remember challenge mode is gear scaled and if you watch you see he stands and tanks, near as I can tell with a real taunt tanking h-raids is a distinct possibility

  5. #165
    9/9 is now done by him. TBH why wont blizzard give us a yes or no? The question is whether or not it will be in WoD. lol. Not in the future. We're pretty sure it will happen one day. Just how close is it

  6. #166
    I honestly don't believe that demo tanking is that wild of a assumption tbh. Just look at hunters geting a petless way to dps. Just look at protection warriors being able to dps, just look at attacking from behind not being mandatory anymore for rogues in backstabbing, just look at monks/disc healing while dpsing (well that didnt work out very well so far, cof cof)....

    All of those concepts were outlandish and very unlikely to happen a few years ago and then things changed naturally.

    I believe that blizzard needs to innovate faster and faster and new things in wow are harder to come by and amaze old-school players and new ones alike. Blizzard needs to gradually come out of what is "conventional" and what "works classically" into more creative design.

    I for once am amazed at how they gone along with protection warrior dpsing with a shield, and hunter with no pet possibility... next i think will be shockadin spec, mark my words

  7. #167
    Holy Shockadin, i remember pvping against that spec, a complete nightmare, it was not even viable, if it would turn viable, in pvp, it would become a complete nightmare for physical classes, just read, its a plate class using a shield that deals 100% magic damage, how is it even possible to balance something like that?
    I suppose they could make holy shockadins 50% melee 50% magic.
    For Warlocks, the problem also is that the class is a ranged, if you could tank, Blizzard would have to reduce the range of most spells to melee range, all tanks has something in common, in that their melee range classes with the option sometimes to deal a tiny amount of ranged damage.
    Warlocks on the other hand has a ton of ranged CC and ranged spells that would have to be changed if they could tank, else they would be able to old school ranged tank, and blizzard doesnt want a ranged tank.
    Then its the fact that Warlocks deal 100% magic damage, theres no tanks that deal 100% magic damage, its 75% physical damage at minimum.

    So its a ton of work, Gladiator Stance is pretty simple, it buffs Battle Stance to 20% bonus damage and replaces Shield Block with Shield Charge, thats all, all other mechanics are already in place, rage gain is obtained from auto attacks, tanking passives only work in defensive stance etc, its actually really simple.
    Last edited by vexew; 2014-05-06 at 01:16 AM.

  8. #168
    Having a ranged tank doesn't. Really change the mechanics that much, think erender twins in AQ, all it means is unlessthe target is in melee range they have a range attack and a leap style one shorter, ranged tank major balance issue solved, as for the cc well its no different to druids or when pallies could repentance, damage being magic or melee doesn't matter cause the resistance table is a waste of space at the moment

    The problem I have with the lack of lock tank at the moment is, its possible at the moment but its little things like a lack of taunt or queue that stand in the way, completely ignoring the lack of real reason it can't be a thing, it just tedious bullshit that can be worked around that stands in the way

    Like seriously if we lacked the tools as bad as celestalon says we do challenge modes would be impossible to tank them as a lock but sparkuggz has proved it is, it seems to me that as it stands at the moment players know whats required better then the development team which is a bit off to me
    Last edited by Munemasa; 2014-05-06 at 01:39 AM.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Munemasa View Post
    Having a ranged tank doesn't. Really change the mechanics that much, think erender twins in AQ, all it means is unlessthe target is in melee range they have a range attack and a leap style one shorter, ranged tank major balance issue solved, as for the cc well its no different to druids or when pallies could repentance, damage being magic or melee doesn't matter cause the resistance table is a waste of space at the moment

    The problem I have with the lack of lock tank at the moment is, its possible at the moment but its little things like a lack of taunt or queue that stand in the way, completely ignoring the lack of real reason it can't be a thing, it just tedious bullshit that can be worked around that stands in the way

    Like seriously if we lacked the tools as bad as celestalon says we do challenge modes would be impossible to tank them as a lock but sparkuggz has proved it is, it seems to me that as it stands at the moment players know whats required better then the development team which is a bit off to me
    Because someone can do something does not mean we should.
    The fact that someone can tank with a warlock means that something is horribly broken, not a sign of how things should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Because someone can do something does not mean we should.
    The fact that someone can tank with a warlock means that something is horribly broken, not a sign of how things should be.
    By definition of the word, it's not broken if the tools we were given are working properly for the task they were made for.

    Blizzard needs to stop half-arsing it and give demo the full tools to tank with. I wouldn't even care if it was just dungeons.
    Last edited by Tya; 2014-05-06 at 02:31 AM.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    "Not right now." sounds promising. I've quit the game, but if on a future expansion they were to add demo tanking, I'd seriously consider returning.
    I wouldn't hold your breath lol
    Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

  12. #172
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,241
    Quote Originally Posted by Last Starfighter View Post
    I wouldn't hold your breath lol
    I quit warlocking, and to be frank, whether added or not probably won't be going back. Such is the way of things :P

  13. #173
    Just gonna put this one out there why does metamorphosis' melee generate 5 demonic fury

    http://beta.wowhead.com/spell=114091
    Given it triggers rather then having it hard coded,

    But why have a melee that gens fury for a burst DPS form

  14. #174

  15. #175
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Just outside of Wigan, England.
    Posts
    7,447
    I wish they would stop being so vague about it, turn round and say something along the lines of
    Originally Posted by Fake
    "Under no circumstance are warlocks ever going to tank other than a "oh hell moment". Now let that be an end to it.
    Maybe then people would finally let it go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acelius View Post
    Sigma : Super Intelligent Giant Moldy Anchovy

  16. #176
    It may be a relic or it may not the 6.0.1 added in on the wowdb link
    http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/104314-demonic-fury says its also triggered by soul fire and shadow bolt with there own generation values of course that fits, not to mention that in the WoD talent calculator you can select glyph of demon hunting with a level requirement of lvl 1 sort of makes Me question the accuracy of wowdb/wowhead or if they are correct the stance blizzard has publicly stated.

    My list of reasons for believing its still on the table are as follows
    Adjusted threat value of DA
    The change to the tooltip and effect of provocation
    The rolling in of the DA mastery into demonic fury
    Fury ward, still being called in DA, potentially causing multiple game crashes because calling on something that doesn't exist
    Demonic fury gen from meta melee
    Defensive glyphs/talent choices
    Meta melee being effected by gosac
    Readiness effecting twilight ward
    The drain life perk, cause reading it it sounds like clipping it will generate ridiculous self heals seeing as there isn't a stack limit
    The change from vengeance to resolve
    Gear/item changes stats being on gear but only being effective in a given spec
    Lack of statement saying its off the table entirely
    With all of those changes, most of the things Celesalon stated are no longer an issue, the 3 things that are well balance in never perfect, crit immunity is a melee thing and everything about locks is ranged, and player awareness/training is a time thing

    Now there is a chance its all just bad Data mining, but there is also a chance its a case of people like myself seeing what we want to and there is also the chance that it is something that they don't want to release details on because they are in fact working on making it. But really it is just speculation and unless someone wants to spring for a server side copy of wod,assuming blizz would even sell it pre release, allot of the background workings will remain a mystery

    I do however find it unlikely that 2 mobs do the same bad datamining, and blizzard does have a habit of stealth adding/changing and removing things, and they also seem to like experimenting
    Last edited by Munemasa; 2014-05-06 at 11:54 AM.

  17. #177
    Still hope this can be reverted. The best change they could make in wow atm is to give pure classes more versatility. All around the game would improve a lot and the repercussions would provoque a much desired change.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
    I wish they would stop being so vague about it, turn round and say something along the lines of
    Originally Posted by Fake
    "Under no circumstance are warlocks ever going to tank other than a "oh hell moment". Now let that be an end to it.
    Maybe then people would finally let it go.
    The idea is good and would be an improvement to the game and to the class so i doubt that people would let it go.
    Last edited by Underscore; 2014-05-06 at 12:20 PM.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
    I wish they would stop being so vague about it, turn round and say something along the lines of
    Originally Posted by Fake
    "Under no circumstance are warlocks ever going to tank other than a "oh hell moment". Now let that be an end to it.
    Maybe then people would finally let it go.
    It would do no such thing though, as blizzard have done u-turns in the past.
    People would just refer to the previous "never" statements and dismiss it.

    Just an idea that people aren't willing to let go of, and will fabricate excuses all the time as to why the game needs it.
    The fact is that the game does not need warlock tanks, and will not be benefiting from their presence.
    They won't improve the tank shortage beyond a short novelty period.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Munemasa View Post
    It may be a relic or it may not the 6.0.1 added in on the wowdb link
    http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/104314-demonic-fury says its also triggered by soul fire and shadow bolt with there own generation values of course that fits, not to mention that in the WoD talent calculator you can select glyph of demon hunting with a level requirement of lvl 1 sort of makes Me question the accuracy of wowdb/wowhead or if they are correct the stance blizzard has publicly stated.

    My list of reasons for believing its still on the table are as follows
    Adjusted threat value of DA
    The change to the tooltip and effect of provocation
    The rolling in of the DA mastery into demonic fury
    Fury ward, still being called in DA, potentially causing multiple game crashes because calling on something that doesn't exist
    Demonic fury gen from meta melee
    Defensive glyphs/talent choices
    Meta melee being effected by gosac
    Readiness effecting twilight ward
    The drain life perk, cause reading it it sounds like clipping it will generate ridiculous self heals seeing as there isn't a stack limit
    The change from vengeance to resolve
    Gear/item changes stats being on gear but only being effective in a given spec
    Lack of statement saying its off the table entirely
    With all of those changes, most of the things Celesalon stated are no longer an issue, the 3 things that are well balance in never perfect, crit immunity is a melee thing and everything about locks is ranged, and player awareness/training is a time thing

    Now there is a chance its all just bad Data mining, but there is also a chance its a case of people like myself seeing what we want to and there is also the chance that it is something that they don't want to release details on because they are in fact working on making it. But really it is just speculation and unless someone wants to spring for a server side copy of wod,assuming blizz would even sell it pre release, allot of the background workings will remain a mystery

    I do however find it unlikely that 2 mobs do the same bad datamining, and blizzard does have a habit of stealth adding/changing and removing things, and they also seem to like experimenting
    I stand by my point.
    Gladiator Stance.
    Battle Stance changes to Gladiator Stance, increasing damage by 20% and replacing Shield Block with Shield Charge.
    Done, due to how the class is built up, everything else is automatically solved.
    Thats why Warriors get it and Warlocks dont.
    Making Prot a dps spec is a trivial effort, everything is already there from the beginning, was just a tiny thing they needed to add to change it.
    The class abilities, talents, everything has been build with intention that it can tank, for the warlock, they would virtually have to change the whole class, all talents everything.
    Warlocks would need a 4th spec, thats how different it is.
    Last edited by vexew; 2014-05-06 at 03:30 PM.

  20. #180
    To make Prot DPS is so simple, you just adjust the dmg modifiers on fucking everything, change how a core defensive abilities to work as DPS cooldowns, and presto.. no work involved.

    But to adjust dmg values of a DPS class and modify how a core ability to the spec works in another stance is impossible and there are technical limitations beyond the scope of comprehension....

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •