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  1. #141
    Brewmaster Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    I was talking about TBC. In WotLK it was Holy Light spam. TBC was Flash of Light.
    We downranked holy light in BC. Flash of Light died after Karazhan as a primary heal. In progression it was Holy light rank 7 and 8. Flash of light was used in a pinch or by people who didn't understand how to downrank. You would have gotten thrown out of my guild if you tried healing the tank with flash during Brutallus.
    Don't blame the casuals for making Warcraft worse. It's the unskilled masses who refuse to improve themselves and Blizzard who has decided to bribe these folks with an endless shower of purples that should draw the ire of both casual and hardcore alike. It was never about "seeing the content" for these people it's always been about the gear and their sense of entitlement.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    We downranked holy light in BC. Flash of Light died after Karazhan as a primary heal. In progression it was Holy light rank 7 and 8. Flash of light was used in a pinch or by people who didn't understand how to downrank. You would have gotten thrown out of my guild if you tried healing the tank with flash during Brutallus.
    You dare to bring up downranking? Sacrilege!

    I swear I never downranked(what is that anyway?) my chain heals on my shaman in MH/BT.

  3. #143
    Bloodsail Admiral Manabomb's Avatar
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    My biggest problem with the healer changes in general is that we have heard it all before. We heard it when cata launched, her heard it when mop launched. It is literally all hot air by this point because I, personally, have already sworn off healing in this game.

    Literally. I've played every healer this expansion but resto druid. In every healing class it was "Spam this, then spam that" where "this" could be replaced with holy radiance, rem, riptide or smite and "that" could be replaced with light of dawn, uplift, chain heal and spirit shelled PoH's. And hell, I already know what resto druid healing would be like. Spam reju, then spam genesis! Pop that shroom!

    Healing this expansion has been extremely unimaginative and we already had the speech how things would matter more in mop than in cata and how healers wouldn't be capping out mana regen or some equally disturbing rhetoric like damage actually mattering on either the raid front or the tank front. I honestly doubt adding cast times to spells that seriously don't need them and doubling post squish health pools will make anything any better.

    IF anything it will make early expansion healing slightly "challenging" in the sense that we won't have the gear to top people off really quickly while progressing. But, I expect by the second tier for us to have the gear to once again 1%-100% people in a global because that's how exponential gear growth works, unless they literally nerf healing every patch just to keep the gameplay the same the entire expansion, which, lord forbid, might be even less imaginative than MoP's model of healing.
    Last edited by Manabomb; 2014-03-24 at 08:04 AM.
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  4. #144
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    i like the idea of making healing matter more and not having everyone at 100% health all the time. Removing smart heals and making players decide who to heal are all good goals to have, but they have to stick to this decision. If it's the last tier of WoD and its back to how it currently is then the system is fail.

    It can work, but we need devs who will make it work and fine tune it as it goes along.
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  5. #145
    Field Marshal muppetpilot's Avatar
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    I'm not a full-time healer but I, too, think the idea of triage healing is a good one and would present an enjoyable, challenging style of healing for some of the player base. Read: some of the player base. Unfortunately, I don't think it will carry over for most of the healers we have, regardless of server.

    I think the OP has a valid point: most folks who play this game simply are not good enough to keep up with the mental demands of triage-style healing. Couple that with mana pools that could change and other forms of resource management, and you've got the potential for a lot of wipes due to OOM healers on your hands. I'm with the OP also in that I think the devs' hearts are in the right place, and I absolutely wish that they could implement some more dynamic and/or challenging play systems for tanks and DPS peeps also; unfortunately, it's just not going to have very good results.

    Most people in raids are dependent upon DBM and other versions of "BEWARE!!" in order to survive the fights. Sure, we all have the opportunity to learn the ropes and become more adept, but again, most people simply don't. Why would they, when their mods and/or other players can simply help carry the day?

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by muppetpilot View Post
    I'm not a full-time healer but I, too, think the idea of triage healing is a good one and would present an enjoyable, challenging style of healing for some of the player base. Read: some of the player base. Unfortunately, I don't think it will carry over for most of the healers we have, regardless of server.

    I
    there is no point to speak about "most"- most healers have no clue how to heal exept press aoe heal button most tanks have no clue how to tank exept "taunt at X stacks" most dps have no clue how to dps and pull 1/2 of what they should be pulling at set itlv - blizzard is changing the heal model cause of how dominant shileds have been over any other kind of healing this expansion - same they change the dmg from spike to the constant one cause they see how failed this designe was allowing teams to go 1 heal on last HC boss of tier and 2 heal all other fights which is abomination of heal model.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Seriously, how did the toolkit change? Other than Holy Paladins (cause I'm not sure when Holy Power was introduced) the most that changed for healers was a modification/removal of 1-2 spells. The major change between end of WotLK and beginning of Cata simply was mana regen where proper mana management separated good healers from bad healers. If you want to spam abilities then I'd suggest playing something other than a healer at the beginning of an expansion.
    I love how you list ways the healing toolkit changed from WOTLK to Cata right after asking how the toolkit changed...

    Cata gave every class big a 2.5 second heal and a small spammable 2.5 second heal. To have any success, you had to use those spells regardless of the class you played. Most of those other spells that made each class unique became high cost and healed much less than they did in WOTLK. With few exceptions every class felt the same. You minimize those changes, but they were huge.

    Even in Mop, every class has those 2.5 second big and small heals. I wish Blizz would allow more classes to move away from those spells or allow us to avoid them completely, even in lower gear levels.

  8. #148
    Epic! Warlord Booty's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan. I'm pretty ODC about making sure everyone is always at 100% and as a resto druid, I'm not happy if I'm not doing the wave (tree throwing hands in the air at all times since he's always casting a spell).

    All this will do is limit the amount of healers. If I come back, I'm fairly certain it'll be in a strict DPS capacity.

    The only time we ever downranked was mages laying down multiple flamestrikes on trash etc Our heals didn't really see the point of it with the VEs going out etc they were DPSing almost as much as they were healing. Always made for faster runs when most of the team was capable of mitigation or proper self heal usage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by adorich View Post
    Cata gave every class big a 2.5 second heal and a small spammable 2.5 second heal. To have any success, you had to use those spells regardless of the class you played.
    When I was leveling a new priest, I was focusing more on using those other spells and it just wasn't working for me. 2.5 seconds was enough time for tanks to go 100% with bubble to dead (leveling overpulls) and then 1 DPS and I would sit there for 10 minutes killing the 26 mobs that were just pulled.
    Last edited by Warlord Booty; 2014-03-24 at 01:02 PM.

  9. #149
    I'm not a full time healer, but when I do heal (Resto Shaman mostly these days and Holy Paladin in the past but picking up again, have played some Disc but I have no real idea what I'm doing there) also I find the current model could be described as "99% sheer boredom, 1% panic". There has to be a better way than that, and Triage can fix that so long as resource management based purely on gear isn't used to enforce it.

    The key problems I have with healing right now are:
    • Long periods of "nothing to heal".
    • Can't see what my shields are really doing, if anything (more a UI issue, but there are addons that "fix" that).
    • Too much AoE/Smart Healing that's just endlessly spammed to "keep people topped", broadly because there's not a lot else to do.
    • Too much emphasis on those 10-100% raidwide burst healing moments where mana actually gets used to get you to actually do something.
    • Not enough "I just saved that guy".
    • Reliance on external mana cooldowns (esp at lower gear levels), which in PuGs/LFR aren't always properly utilised/available.

    I much prefer the idea of active management, which is more what they're pointing towards I think; so you don't feel completely helpless when OOM and the only answer is "when I get some gear". Clearly you're doing it wrong if you're spamming nothing but Healing Surge, but realistically I don't think you should go OOM spamming Healing Wave forever either - Cataclysm punished you for both, which left players feeling like they had no right answer beyond "get more gear" so there is a middle ground I think.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Then go Shadow and pop Vampiric Embrace. Healers never should have been able to be psuedo damage dealers.
    Several classes/specs are pseudo healers and nobody complains about it, one healer spec wants to be a pseudo damage dealer and tons of people complain...
    An Apple fanboy called me a retard.
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  11. #151
    Imo triage healing should only apply to heroic dungeons and normal raiding+

  12. #152
    Scarab Lord Puupi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dahmer View Post
    Several classes/specs are pseudo healers and nobody complains about it, one healer spec wants to be a pseudo damage dealer and tons of people complain...
    Of course because having a disc priest (and even more if paired with mistweaver) you could increase your 10 man's raid dps by 10%. Disc+mw could increase like 15%. That was the problem.
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  13. #153
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratyrel View Post
    Imo triage healing should only apply to heroic dungeons and normal raiding+
    imo triage healing should apply to all content that you don't significantly outgear

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    snip

    And hell, I already know what resto druid healing would be like. Spam reju, then spam genesis! Pop that shroom!

    snip
    Other than spam Rejuv that's pretty wrong. Throughout SoO I have yet to find a single instance where I need those faster ticking Rejuvs to keep the raid alive. It's similar to Nourish in that I don't even have it on my bars (though Nourish at least was decent enough for normal T14 progression). As for Wild Mushroom:Bloom the glyph for it is usually way too strong to justify popping it and constantly having to recharge the mushroom.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Puupi View Post
    Of course because having a disc priest (and even more if paired with mistweaver) you could increase your 10 man's raid dps by 10%. Disc+mw could increase like 15%. That was the problem.
    That's the only thing I'll agree with, disc damage output is a bit high but besides that they're fine.
    An Apple fanboy called me a retard.
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  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by dahmer View Post
    Several classes/specs are pseudo healers and nobody complains about it, one healer spec wants to be a pseudo damage dealer and tons of people complain...
    There's nothing to complain about stuff like Vampiric Embrace since they typically have a hefty cooldown and the healing they do is still fairly minimal compared to the output of your healers. I remember when HotW was nerfed back in T14 not because of the zomg heals that non-Resto could put out but because Resto Druids were able to get crazy damage from a 6 minute cooldown.

    Disc on the other hand gets 3 benefits from Attonement:

    1. Deal damage (and it's a relatively decent amount of damage considering it's from a healer)
    2. Provide a direct smart heal to someone that needs to be healed about equal to the damage they dealt in 1
    3. Critical heals proc Divine Aegis

    Combining this in addition to their general toolkit is why non-Disc healers have been complaining this expansion. Why bring anything else when Disc is the best Jack-of-all-trades healer/damage hybrid? If you really want to deal damage that badly there's plenty of classes/specs to choose from.
    Last edited by Trubo; 2014-03-24 at 02:21 PM.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    There's nothing to complain about stuff like Vampiric Embrace since they typically have a hefty cooldown and the healing they do is still fairly minimal compared to the output of your healers. I remember when HotW was nerfed back in T14 not because of the zomg heals that non-Resto could put out but because Resto Druids were able to get crazy damage from a 6 minute cooldown.

    Disc on the other hand gets 3 benefits from Attonement:

    1. Deal damage (and it's a relatively decent amount of damage considering it's from a healer)
    2. Provide a direct smart heal to someone that needs to be healed about equal to the damage they dealt in 1
    3. Critical heals proc Divine Aegis

    Combining this in addition to their general toolkit is why non-Disc healers have been complaining this expansion. Why bring anything else when Disc is the best Jack-of-all-trades healer/damage hybrid? If you really want to deal damage that badly there's plenty of classes/specs to choose from.
    I have several characters to deal damage with but never found a healer I liked until I tried disc... and now I risk losing that because it's too good and people want it removed. It's seriously aggravating.
    An Apple fanboy called me a retard.
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  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by dahmer View Post
    I have several characters to deal damage with but never found a healer I liked until I tried disc... and now I risk losing that because it's too good and people want it removed. It's seriously aggravating.
    Then I can tell you that you don't actually like healing. You like to deal damage that has the additional benefit of doing decent healing.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Then I can tell you that you don't actually like healing. You like to deal damage that has the additional benefit of doing decent healing.
    Correct... and with the removal of atonement we'll have less healers and more dps. Brilliant idea!
    An Apple fanboy called me a retard.
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  20. #160
    Field Marshal
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    We've heard all this before and it didn't work. I actually enjoyed healing early cata heroics and tier 11 but the backlash from the community was too great. The problem is to make that kind of content challenging for skilled people who have been healing for years you suddenly make it an almost impossible challenge for the majority as we saw in the disastrous launch cata pugging scene. I'm all for making healing challenging in raid content but it's pretty pointless making it hard in 5 mans, unless they want a repeat performance of cata.

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