Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
  1. #121
    Herald of the Titans Theodon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,834
    I believe the reason for the reduction in tanks and healers is due to the content that is used to measure the levels of tanks and healers in the game, and also what people want from this expansion and how they go about playing the content toward the twilight months of an expansion.

    Toward the end of an expansion I find that many people tend to just want an easier time getting through SoO for the Nth time, and trying to achieve that as a tank or healer is just not going to happen. You can take it easy as a DPS as there isn't as much demand on giving it your all and paying full attention during a run, so the tank and healing role slowly starts to see a decline in how many people play it as people increasingly feel the need to take it easy. Every individual has a point where they think "meh, cba to tank this time"

    We also look at dungeon content when we see how many tanks and healers are currently playing, which is where you would want things to just be over and done with so you can finally get that item you've been after for months. So why do it as a tank or a healer if you want to take the easier and less stressful route? It does involve people being shitty to tanks and healers, but I believe that playing the roles themselves is also a bit more stressful for the person involved, so being a tank or a healer is the first thing to go when someone has reached a point in how much effort they can bring themselves to put in to the game; some line that, when crossed, sees them queue as dps.

    I would imagine that looking at a graph showing tank and healer population over the course of an expansion would show some peaks and valleys that correspond to major patches. I, at least, think that this would be the case. It's not as simple as people just quitting because people are arseholes to tanks and healers in particular, but it is something that contributes to the erosion over time of people's desire to make an effort.
    Last edited by Theodon; 2014-03-23 at 11:55 PM.
    It's always been Wankershim!
    My Brand!

  2. #122
    I haven't done dungeons in forever on my main, Blood DK. New job means I miss 1/5 weeks of raiding so on that week I tried doing dungeons for valor. I've decided that my dps offspec can either wait to be upgraded or upon entering a dungeon I pretend I'm soloing and then solo the dungeon. Out of 6 dps and 2 healers from the two groups only a single dps was active for more than half the time. Another was active for about half the time, the rest were either afk entirely from the start or moved enough to follow the group then stopped. The first healer threw a fit I didn't wait for them to load in before starting trash despite me being a 570 blood dk, I didn't even lose a point of health before they loaded. The second healer was completely new and said so upon loading into the dungeon and failed to save a dps who stood in fire until he died. The dps vote kicked the healer insulting them with some colorful language.

    To the point of the thread, I don't think blizzard can do anything that will effect the game more than the players who play it will. It could be the best game ever and it would be a terrible experience with the people I've met since I did dungeons again. It could also be a pretty crappy game but still be fun enough with a group of friendly people, of course a nice happy medium would be a good game without crappy people. Blizzard can only change the game, not the people and from what I've seen, by far and wide, the people are the bigger problem.

  3. #123
    I think tanking is more fun now then it ever has been, active mitigation works in differentiating a good tank from a bad tank the same way threat used to. WoD might push some tanks away who loved doing high dps by cheesing vengeance but those were not real tanks anyway imo.

    I don't enjoy tanking tanking for people in random groups so I definitely understand why there might seem to be less tanks, I think its more that the competent tanks are more likely to be in a decent guild raiding progression content or avoiding lfr by doing flex.

  4. #124
    Dreadlord MetroStratics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    wow.stratics.com
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    The removal of meaningful active threat generation ruined tanking for me. Pointless to play when all you have to do is do damage like everyone else.
    You now spend resources on keeping yourself alive.
    Try heroic 25 man raiding or challenge modes, you won't feel like you are doing nothing.
    WoW Moderator and Staff Editor at Stratics-WoW!
    http://wow.stratics.com/ - A World of Warcraft Fansite dedicated to lively opinions on the important topics within the game.
    Co-owner of AcegamesTV!
    https://www.youtube.com/acegamestv - A general gaming network focused on high quality variety content!

  5. #125
    - Daily questing is most efficient as dps
    - Scenario's favour (mostly) 3x dps

    As a Blood DK in dps gear i disagree, for the scenario, pull everything>aoe>done in 3min, same for most dailies.
    As for healers, 99% of healers got tank or dps offspec and decent enough gear to do dailies at a decent pace, so i dont see the problem, if not, go with a friend/guildie/other dude doing same quest as you.

    This argument "- No flying, so world pvp will ensue and you will quest as dps." oh lord, as a tank 99% of ppl will avoid u like the plague

    "- Giant world pvp zone will not favour Tanking in general." Again, as Blood DK its quite fun to pvp, u can go against 2-3 ppl and laugh at their attempts to kill u, and in a group u can be on the enemy healer and be a giant pain in the ass for him interupting, stunning, CCing etc


    And people, please stop with the "NO FLYING IS GONA KILL TEH GAEM" crap, ur welcome to post this shit when the beta starts and ppl can TEST how it is without flying, until then, just stop.
    I put the laughter in manslaughter
    Blood DK problems: to many ppl at daily place, cant pull 8packs *cries*
    BF3>CoD Cola>Pepsi PC>Mac Xbox>PS3

  6. #126
    I would have loved to play as a tank in this game, but the primary problem my guild had when raiding was that we had way too many of them. I don't know why you even made this thread.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by sophos1 View Post
    I would have loved to play as a tank in this game, but the primary problem my guild had when raiding was that we had way too many of them. I don't know why you even made this thread.
    Because your guild's demographics is representative of the entire player base, right?

    This thread brings up a legitimate concern.

  8. #128
    For me to tanking become interesting again, threat has to matter once more.

    I've been playing warrior tank as my latest character on this not so official vanilla realm and I just love the tanking there, where it's more of a cooperation between DPS and the tank, rather than mind numbing pew pew.

    Frankly, to me threat and lack of silly AoE threat moves were best parts of tanking.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  9. #129
    Epic! Zaxio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sofia/Bulgaria
    Posts
    1,533
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Doubt it. I am a geared tank, my gf is a geared healer, Four raiders on my team are geared healers / tank os. None of us will tank or heal LFR. It has nothing to do with not wanting to get the gear, we already have it. The problem is a few things

    A)Most of the time my ot is a complete idiot, making me have to do more work
    B)Most of the time half the healers are afk / don't know crap about how to heal so oom at the start then just sorta go derp
    C)Most dps in LFR are so bad that it makes the entire instance take longer. Don't want to waste time because people don't care
    D)Even as the good tank, if its a wipe idiots instantly start blaming you if you happen to be too vocal about trying to teach the ot / anyone the mechanics
    E)Removing a gimp OT / bad healers is nearly impossible. They would rather "work with it" then potentially have to wait for a replacement.

    I have seen tons of dps in LFR have a geared os for tank / healer who refuse to use it because they don't want to deal with the crap storm that is LFR for any decent tank / healer. I never even did LFR for the legendary, even when I was behind. LFR is just down right painful. I am switching to a rogue in WoD, but that is not really taking away a tank / healer from LFR since I never tank or heal it anyway.
    I solve this problem simply by with mine friend tank and mine sister as healer.So i have to not to wory about how stupid is mine offtank and do there is a healer who pay attention on me.its makes stuff really easy i was in LFR just to get tank gear i enter there in dps gear and so far no one blames me
    Back to topic
    I dont see for now ho the WoD will makes me to want to play DPS more than to Tank mine path up to lv 100.Tanks especially in MoP have advantage over DPS in early stage of the game i can not only can pull 100 mobs around but can survive after and kill them for no time try to do this with green geared dps .

  10. #130
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Honolulu, HI
    Posts
    5,697
    Quote Originally Posted by britishbubba View Post
    Except in a dps vs tank, the tank wins?
    That's not necessarily true, as DPS right now have a bit more self-mitigation and self-healing that render's a tank's durability as a non-factor, and they'll do much more damage to a tank than what a tank can do to them.

    Enstraynomic - League of Legends
    TheEnst - Starcraft II

  11. #131
    There is only a lack of tanks in pug content, and this is because they have made it so easy to be a dps that it doesn't matter what you do, while tanks and healers still need functioning brains. When they added the loot specilizatiob, it became even worse, as people can run as a dps and get tank/healer gear, rather than gearing up both specs.

  12. #132
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    East Coast USA
    Posts
    3,509
    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    This is how I see things right now and how I think (read fear) things will be in WoD.

    The gameplay of Mists of Pandaria had some influence on the decreasing number of Tanks and healers because:
    - Daily questing is most efficient as dps
    - Scenario's favour (mostly) 3x dps
    - There were very few 5 man dungeons between 86-90
    - Hardly any reason to run heroic 5 man dungeons at 90
    - Playing a Tank in LFR puts a target on you for frustrated people.

    Now in WoD, I expect less reason to play as a tank or healer because:
    - All of the things mentioned for MoP
    - No flying, so world pvp will ensue and you will quest as dps.
    - EVEN FEWER dungeons! (yet 5 more levels to bridge).
    - You will have to fight for nodes/herbs more often because you can't fly (or fly away).
    - Giant world pvp zone will not favour Tanking in general.

    I know that we have double specs and that gear will be more usuable outside of main specs, but I still don't think that people will tank or heal because it's outside of their "comfort zone", and not unimportant either they might not be good at it because they don't regurlary play it because of the reasons above.

    I will still play my Tank simply because I love tanking. But I gotta say, my current experiences and the foresight in WoD worry me somewhat.
    I never noticed all the things that you are complaining about. And since I rolled a pally to replace my original huntard I have not looked back and rarely popped into ret spec. So, maybe it takes a little longer to grind mobs. Guess what? While you are pulling one or two I grab ALL the mobs I need to complete a (kill x mobs) quest. Granted beginning of MOP was exciting until we got the mega nerf bat because of DPS players QQ. But still we put out ok numbers and live longer. I do not envision people who enjoy playing the tank roll just throwing up their hands and quitting. It takes a special person to be on point and they are not going to walk away from that just because it becomes challenging. They do it in the first place in part due to the challenge.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    MoP decreased the number of all specs, not just Tanks and Healers. It's the ratio between all the specs that's important.

    Assuming each account has exactly one character and assuming that each class has an equal distribution of specs:

    Yea, but assuming an exactly equivalent distribution between the specs of hybrid classes isn't going to tell you anything about the actual in-game ratio of the specs either. You need more data then pulling class percentages out of Realmpop.

  14. #134

  15. #135
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    London, ON, Canada
    Posts
    1,310
    I'm actually looking forward to healing in WoD. IMHO there are too many smart heals in MoP which leaves me feeling disconnected from the encounter.

    With gear being spec interchangeable I think it will actually make more people play their offspecs. The ability to collect one set of gear or only having to swap out a couple pieces (weapons and trinkets) will make it far easier to swap back and forth (especially for specs that require a different main stat).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •