Same promises to fix PvP as before every expansion, do you believe them this time?

[lunchbox2042]

I tend to stop believing them when it comes to balancing the game or getting expansions out faster.

[Prag]

They won't fix it, and I always laugh when they say they want to improve WoW as an eSport. Sorry, WoW has never and will never be an eSport so stop trying to force it. WoW pvp gets laughed out of most places because it's broken and always has been.

Their whole idea to "fix" pvp this xpac was to give dragonslayers a huge edge. I still don't know why they made pvp gear such a low item level when they implemented the item level ceiling. It was a stupid idea. Oh and the absolute hilarity when they tried to tell everyone that your pvp gear would be competitive out in the world with heroic gear. Then they nerfed pvp power scaling hard. If anyone believes the crap they say about "fixing" pvp then you're in for disappointment.

Because how dare those filthy PvPers perform as well in PvE as they do in PvP? HOW DARE THEY?

[Krazzorx]

They won't fix it, and I always laugh when they say they want to improve WoW as an eSport. Sorry, WoW has never and will never be an eSport so stop trying to force it. WoW pvp gets laughed out of most places because it's broken and always has been.

Their whole idea to "fix" pvp this xpac was to give dragonslayers a huge edge. I still don't know why they made pvp gear such a low item level when they implemented the item level ceiling. It was a stupid idea. Oh and the absolute hilarity when they tried to tell everyone that your pvp gear would be competitive out in the world with heroic gear. Then they nerfed pvp power scaling hard. If anyone believes the crap they say about "fixing" pvp then you're in for disappointment.

PvP gear has to be lower ilvl for a multitude of reasons. For PvP which Blizz attempts to balance, at least this xpac doesn't have the requirement of having pve items to be optimal as the last 2 did, due to the down scaling. Much better there.

As long as Ashran makes all pve gear worse than pvp gear, that part should be fine.

[Deleted]

They won't fix it, and I always laugh when they say they want to improve WoW as an eSport. Sorry, WoW has never and will never be an eSport so stop trying to force it. WoW pvp gets laughed out of most places because it's broken and always has been.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLLWpT_nsTE

[Krazzorx]

Because how dare those filthy PvPers perform as well in PvE as they do in PvP? HOW DARE THEY?

That's not the problem as much as there are a few conflicting issues which makes it impractical to make the gear equal in both game types.

The problem with making pvp gear equal to heroic pve gear (or even LFR for that matter) is its significantly easier to obtain. And also quicker. This creates a problem for Blizz's carrot-on-a-stick gearing method as people would gear up to fast.

On a more practical level: it would create very large problems for how Blizzard tunes pve content. Blizzard tunes it in a way that content nerfs itself (preventing guilds from getting stuck) through getting more gear. They'd have to radically change their tuning methods if you could get near full heroic raid gear without a problem without setting foot in a raid.

If PvE gear were to be equal to PvP gear, the problems of occasionally too powerful set bonuses, and more importantly, trinkets would present a problem. I don't think anyone wants to go back to the situations where legendaries dominated pvp.

And current PvP gear actually works well as introductory pve gear. There's just unfounded bias against it due to how pvp gear used to have resil take up itemization points.

As long as they essentially make PvE gear scale down to arena levels for WPvP in addition, the current setup will work fine for gear balance.

[Deleted]

WoW's problem has always been scaling is too good.

This has been in ever since classic, they introduced resilience as a band aid fix for it. Twice they also massively inflated base HP pools between expansions to fix it (TBC & Cata) and both times base damage also went up to make the HP increase irrelevant even after resilience.

They need to fix the underlying scaling issues, and the squish is probably the only time to get it right.

[yogzula]

I really respect their direction with the removal of flying mounts. They seem to have a much better idea of how to help cultivate world PvP than they did in the past but I've been disappointed too many times to have any real faith in them.

In any case, I'm excited for more details.

[Pulverize]

I'm sure Blizz has tried hard to fix PvP, but its extremely difficult when the game is PvE based.
You can only expect so much due to this, give them a break.

[Deleted]

I dont believe them at all.

They said no resi in WoD, then what I see in one of latest tweets: "it didnt play like we expected, resi will still be there" - seriously?

[ataraxia123]

Wpvp was dead for years now
I think they're trying to resurrect it in WoD, but I think the main problem is that there is actually no point in wpvping anymore
Battlegrounds and arenas give you much more honors and even conquest points, while wpvp gives you no conquest and petty amount of honors
If they really want to resurrect it, there must be some sort of compensation to keep people interested in wpvp, like mounts, transmog gears, or something

[Wow]

Without making every class the same something will always break the mold no matter the game wide changes. And then they won't change whatever class because they will use the "but we've had this forever" line.

Most of the ideas for wod sound like cata 2.0. Big health pools to slow down pvp? hey cata. Triage healing? hey cata again...

The main issue with the "new" model for wod they are trying is that unless every class is made 100% the same something will break this system and break pvp for it. And that goes both ways some class will probably be made op by the changes and some will probably be made trash by them.

Could they work on those classes and get everything just right? Sure, but with a 10 year track record of failing at balance in betas I wouldn't count on it. There hasn't been one expansion patch that pvp has a good memory of 2.0 no, 3.0 lol, 4.0 lol, 5.0 lol.

[Deleted]

yes ofc blizzard are the greatest

[Korgoth]

The item squish and that they are removing things makes me the most hopeful I have been since Wrath.

[Siddown]

I dont believe them at all.

They said no resi in WoD, then what I see in one of latest tweets: "it didnt play like we expected, resi will still be there" - seriously?

You are being rather selective with your memory there. They said they were hoping to eliminate it, but stated from the beginning they might not be able too, but would try to keep it as low as possible.

- - - Updated - - -

PVP will never get better until something is done about the Hordes overwhelming domination of PVP.

It has only ever gotten worse since vanilla, it is not their racials or that they magically do not only have all the best players, the majority of the faction's skillsets are seemingly leaps and bound ahead of Alliance. To the point where their skills are such that it allows them perform a if they were 5-10 levels higher than their opponents.

If they get rid of whatever is causing this apparent and unbelievably huge degree of skill separation between the two factions then PVP might start to balance out.

Alliance still has instapop queues, I think that will drive enough people back. For Horde, queue times in Prime Time US hours is 20+ minutes, so I've started playing Alliance again. I'd rather lose an extra game then sit around waiting to play. I know I might be in the minority there, but if they improve honor gains for losses, maybe it wouldn't feel like such a waste of time.

[morislayer]

WoW's problem has always been scaling is too good.

This has been in ever since classic, they introduced resilience as a band aid fix for it. Twice they also massively inflated base HP pools between expansions to fix it (TBC & Cata) and both times base damage also went up to make the HP increase irrelevant even after resilience.

They need to fix the underlying scaling issues, and the squish is probably the only time to get it right.

Scaling and the introduction of ilvl bloat between tiers is the #1 issue with PvP. The item squish and inflated health pools at the start will fix this. Then after 2 tiers they will bring back that awesome idea battle fatigue and resilience. By the end of WoD classes that scale well will again be OP, but at least they have the in game mechanics to tone down damage and healing.

CC is the 2nd issue in PVP. Since TBC, X class has cried Y class has this therefore I should get it! Bring the player not the class, class homogenization and everyone can CC. Well look where it got us. Clusterfuck CC chains are the new mana drain strats. Again since we are being told CC is being toned down, abilities are being pruned I have be optimistic with WoD.

Godmode healers. Two sides of the coin here from my perspective as a healer. I (as healer) get CC'd and 3 people focus me, I am dead and there is not a damn thing I can do about. Not fun gameplay, but the dps enjoys. I am focus'd, use defensive CD's and live while running away, fun gameplay for me, frustrating as dps. I am focused, pop cool downs and cast, ie get interrupted, annoying gameplay but dps enjoys. I am not focused and no one dies, fun but people bitch gameplay. No way to fix this but I agree healers heal too much now and casting will fix this. All healers, druids, shamans, priests, monks and paladins should have to cast to heal with 1 instant per class and remove all smart healing from bg's. Some healer (rdruid for example) have too many ways to peel or reduce damage as well.

@OP, you clearly were a Vanilla Wpvp fanboy lol. I have found memories of Wpvp in Vanilla, TBC towers and Halaa. I agree with your points on post TBC but at least then you were limited and you made due.

Also I don't really take to the catering of PVE. If you PVE and PVP on the side, you should be crushed by PVP regulars. Same arguement for PVP to PVE. DPS should crush PVP deeps, PVP Healers should be going OOM, and as a PVP'r I would accept that.

Last note. One set of gear per toon is by far the greatest thing which will at least get me to sub for WoD. I used to carry 4 sets of gear on my druid in TBC. 5 in wrath. This will making switch to PVE heals to PVP dps much easier for all (example)

[Deleted]

PvE is pretty much the reason for the battle fatigue, base resil etc., issues. Having to see increased power with each gear upgrade meant health pools more than doubling and DPS increasing by a factor of 4 or something at top end.

Base resil was good, and it fixed the problem it was intended to, but people didn't notice because gear disparity between tiers is so incredibly high. People don't die ridiculously fast anymore without gear, but they still barely tickle people with their very low damage.

I hope that the introduction of an item squish, bring stuff back to cata levels, along with the new ideas with gear and scaling, that there will be less of a problem with inequality, but as the expansion progresses, there's no way of telling. Everything that we've seen so far is good, and there's never been this much change at the start of an expansion, so it's hard to judge, but I don't see any reason to doubt Blizzard so harshly, when all of the changes sound good. The problem is how they get put together I guess...

[Tyrannica]

TBC got it right - look closely on class balance and overall balance of cc, burst and dmg.

And the introduction of Arenas.

From that point it can't get any better.

The only possiblitiy i would add at that point is a true FFA zone with a Fog of War mechanic to allow small grouped fights or 1vs1 for funs.

Really everything after TBC was purely PvE related.

[Deleted]

The cynic in me says they're only changing things up to keep people interested, not because they suddenly have a huge interest in balancing PvP. The problem is that Blizzard doesn't do balance patches often enough (by the time WoD rolls around we'll have gone over a year without any meaningful changes), so after the initial changes, whatever class inevitably ends up obscenely OP will as usual get to enjoy months of their OP status.

[Deleted]

TBC got it right - look closely on class balance and overall balance of cc, burst and dmg.

And the introduction of Arenas.

From that point it can't get any better.

The only possiblitiy i would add at that point is a true FFA zone with a Fog of War mechanic to allow small grouped fights or 1vs1 for funs.

Really everything after TBC was purely PvE related.

There was awful imbalance in TBC arena.

[Wow]

The item squish and that they are removing things makes me the most hopeful I have been since Wrath.

Smaller numbers don't mean balanced numbers the squish doesn't mean anything for balance its just less zero's.

They said they were hoping to eliminate it, but stated from the beginning they might not be able too, but would try to keep it as low as possible.

They never were planning to really eliminate it, by lowering crits to 150% its like bc res on crack. Res topped out around 15-18% in bc this would be like 50% res back then. While that would be "no res" it wouldn't really be. And if they plan on adding res on top of that change sounds terrible.

PvE is pretty much the reason for the battle fatigue, base resil etc., issues.

Not really you could remove battle fatigue and and lower res to 20-30%. All they would have to do is remove pvp power and lower the pve ilvl cap more so its a lot worse than now. In full prideful removing pvp power would drop dmg and healing 60% but I doubt they would take a easy solution like that they like to use answers that mess thing up more lol.