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  1. #21
    Join OpenRaid groups. The people tend to be a bit less acrid, especially when their site reputation is at stake. The groups also tend to be more successful. I run with 2 flex groups weekly and it's fantastic, all the camaraderie of running with a guild with none of the hangups.

  2. #22
    The problem is allot of people play DPS because they don't want any responsibility. When encounters require them to have some responsibility, they fail and it frustrates everyone. I remember the Cata dungeons when DPS were required to CC, not break CC, and interrupt. The outcry of "its too hard" was deafening.

    Some people like the challenge. But I'd say allot of casuals choose DPS because they don't want any responsibility, and giving them some is not going to make them a better player - they'll just whine until its nerfed.

  3. #23
    Tank is one of the easiest roles in LFR if you know what to do. They aren't responsible for the majority of the mechanics and just need to make sure they hold threat (which basically holds itself) and make sure they aren't standing in shit. That is why people get mad at tanks when they make mistakes, because you don't have any reason to be making them. As a tank, you are a leader and are responsible for the raids survival. If you are bad you shouldn't expect anyone to be better than you are and the rest of the raid should have every reason to expect better of you. If you are bad, don't tank until you learn the fights and avoid yourself and other players a lot of headache.

    If DPS are playing poorly and dying to avoidable shit then it isn't a big deal because the raid can succeed in the fight anyway unless ALL the DPS are awful which is highly unlikely. DPS is a role people use to learn the fights and tanking is a role people should play when they are a master of the fight. So please, if you are a bad tank then DO NOT TANK. The vast majority of wipes I have seen are the result of awful, scrubby, boosted, tanks.
    Last edited by Applesmack; 2014-03-26 at 04:10 PM.

  4. #24
    Step one: Ignore LFD/LFR/FLEX features.
    Step two: Join a guild.
    Step three: Raid normals and heroics with them.

  5. #25
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    Claiming to know why anything in World of Warcraft happens is rather pointless, because the sheer number of variables is insane, but, I generally agree.

    As a Healer I know the pains of being responsible for a group of ungrateful people, people who'd much rather do stupid things to gain that 0.01% more DPS rather than move for the good of the entire Raid. Tanks & Healers both have their struggles, and neither of them are really unique.

    We both have to deal with people who are ungrateful, but I don't think that Expansions are the only time to get into Tanking / Healing. Between each Tier there is a lull where you're able to quite easily get into a lot of Raids (Flex / Normal) as long as you can prove you know what you're doing, and many guilds these days value the individual and their skills over their gear (Although gear is of course, still a factor), simply because gear is relatively easy to come by.

  6. #26
    Tanks have more responsiblity. If you have never tanked a section of LFR, do not que as a tank the first time you do it. You should ALWAYS run LFR a few times as a DPS just to learn the trash pulls and the major boss mechanisms. You should then read the dungeon journal to learn any tank specific mechanisms.

    It is just the nature of the beast, you have more responsibility as a tank, so you need to do a little more work before you start tanking LFR. Do not go into an LFR as a tank and not know even which direction to go or major boss mechanisms.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TaxmanCDN View Post
    The problem is allot of people play DPS because they don't want any responsibility. When encounters require them to have some responsibility, they fail and it frustrates everyone. I remember the Cata dungeons when DPS were required to CC, not break CC, and interrupt. The outcry of "its too hard" was deafening.

    Some people like the challenge. But I'd say allot of casuals choose DPS because they don't want any responsibility, and giving them some is not going to make them a better player - they'll just whine until its nerfed.
    This is the real issue. Bad players bitch and moan about mechanics being hard, elitist a being elitist and pretty much anything that gets in the way of them auto attacking, but then are upset about nobody else being there to do the hard work. Why, when anybody who complains is called an elitist and told to do normal raids, would a competent player step into LFR and carry scrubs?

    Horridon got ANOTHER LFR nerf because dps expect to be brain dead, and it's blizzard encouraging this sort of behavior. Blizzard nerfs anything requiring competence from DPS, blizzard nerfs anything requiring all healers o actually heal, blizzard implemented off spec loot, and players wonder why nobody wants to play the role you have the be present for? Why the hell would they? It's not about any "abuse", complaints about shit tanks are valid, it's because you can put forth far less effort as a DPS and get the same exact rewards. LFR is not challenging, so there is no reason to do it for a challenge, why would anybody take up a major role as a tank when they can take a nap on their keyboard as a dps?

    Blizzard and LFR players have created this issue by making LFR a concentrated pool of stupidity and sucky players, and then after bitching to Blizzard for it to be easier and complaining about anybody with basic expectations, they now complain nobody with a brain is interested in LFR? Of course nobody wants to e in LFR now, and actually participating, the only people left are awful tanks who can't tank harder difficultys, then these tanks get criticized and cry even more.

    I hope they enjoy everything they got, the queue times keep climbing. Sorry that expecting 70k dps on Jin rokh was to elitist, I'm sure te tank with a spirit shield won't call out your crappy dps.

  8. #28
    It's true. People have much higher expectations for tanks. It never really bothered me in 5mans because people yelling at me would just help me learn the fight, but I would never solo queue for LFR as a tank. That would just be a bit much, I think.

    If you want to tank in PuG groups, just be sure to research the fights beforehand and ask people to explain parts that you don't understand. Don't just try to wing it.

    Everyone else can help the tank issue by being more willing to stop and explain mechanics to tanks who clearly don't know what they're doing, instead of jumping down their throat or kicking them right off the bat.

  9. #29
    You gotta also take in consideration that within a 10m there are 2 tanks running and mostly 1, nowadays for most fights. In 25m raids you also only get 2 and that is a very poor representation compared to 17-18 DPS and 5-6 healers depending on your group comp. So you start there. Then what you attempt to explain comes in and then you get why there are a very few amount of tranks in the game.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by wimbo125 View Post
    Yeah, tanks get treated like crap, get over it, install a DPS meter, read logs and use evidence to burn the haters to the ground! I'm a tank myself and I love doing this, because no one will blame you if you've got the knowledge how to put the blame on those who deserve it!

    Tanks ftw!!1!
    Translation: It makes no difference if people are hostile assholes, because you can be one too!

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Griffter View Post
    It's true. People have much higher expectations for tanks. It never really bothered me in 5mans because people yelling at me would just help me learn the fight, but I would never solo queue for LFR as a tank. That would just be a bit much, I think.

    If you want to tank in PuG groups, just be sure to research the fights beforehand and ask people to explain parts that you don't understand. Don't just try to wing it.

    Everyone else can help the tank issue by being more willing to stop and explain mechanics to tanks who clearly don't know what they're doing, instead of jumping down their throat or kicking them right off the bat.
    As a tank myself, I always try to do this, no matter what I'm doing (be it healing, DPSing, or tanking). I generally find that most tanks are willing to lend an ear, but there are a few that don't take the advice and explanations - and they're generally gone fast.

    Point being, like you said, if people were willing to lend a hand, we'd all be better off in some way or another. Unfortunately, it usually doesn't end up happening that way.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Taoforums View Post
    You gotta also take in consideration that within a 10m there are 2 tanks running and mostly 1, nowadays for most fights.
    "Most" fights? Unless you're doing normal farm with heroic geared tanks and healers, I'm not sure how your list can even be close to "most." I wouldn't even say "at least one" in Siege.
    Currently trying to experiences all classes at 100. Count so far: 3.

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