[Idea] Paragon point options

[Tradu]

So, I've been thinking about the "options" you have when using your Paragon points at the moment, and I honestly don't think the options are equal(and the category names aren't ideal)
Utility is just a heap of "here's a bunch of random stats" and primary is 2 primary stats + the stats they couldn't fit anywhere else.

My idea is to add 2 more categories(Life Replenishment and Resource), and shuffle around a few of the stats:

Primary:
1 Strength
2 Intelligence
3 Dexterity
4 Vitality
(first 3 depend on class, because nobody would pick the others anyway, or have all 4 just to make it the same amount of options, even though it's the "point dump" category after everything else is capped)

Offense:
1 Attackspeed
2 Crit chance
3 Crit damage
4 Area Damage

Life:
1 Life on Hit
2 Life Regeneration
3 Life on Kill
4 Globe Effect Increase

Defense:
1 All Resist
2 Armor
3 Life%
4 Dodge(or something else, like CC reduction or elite damage reduction)

Utility:
1 Gold Find
2 Movement Speed
3 Pickup radius
4 Experience(either flat or %)

Resource:
1 Max resource
2 Resource cost reduction
3 Resource regeneration
4 Cooldown Reduction

Utility still has a similar problem, where MS and pickup radius actually have combat benefits, while the other 2 deal with improving the results of won fights(faster levelling/more gold).
Resource lets you choose how you want to deal with your resources(spend them quickly with CDR, have a bigger pool to work with, throw out cheaper spells).
Life moves life regeneration and LoH into a category where they actually make sense, as well as adding 2 more options for replenishing health.
Defense is the same except for the moved life regen and the added dodge/elite reduction/CC reduction.
Primary stat is essentially the same.
Offense has AoE instead of CDR, because AoE is quite clearly an offensive stat that directly increases your damage, whereas CDR deals more with the way you spend your resources.

I know this isn't the official forum(I posted this there as well, with a slightly different description), but I just wanted to hear other people's thoughts on the subject.

[-Skye]

Gold find needs to be replaced or made multiplicative right now it's useless.
Either way I think the current system is right now, I think area damage needs to be moved since it's pretty much the best you're going to get for utility, get 2 20% Area damage weapons and you're almost doing 100% hits to everything 20% of the time.
But I think 4 categories is enough, maybe when you're at 800 and have capped out everything, you can unlock the ability to get more categories as you've listed to put points in, but I think from the start 4 is great.

In my opinion.

[Urza29]

I also think they need to re-organize them a bit better, and the op's suggestion makes awesome sense and its perfect imo. The inclusion of a +exp is especially helpful for leveling alts, because now without the AH the chance of finding gear in every slot with +exp is far harder to do. Prior to 2.0 release when leveling an alt you could hop on AH and buy up an entire gear set every piece having +exp. With 2.0's smart loot system, the +exp stat is randomized and the majority of the time you simply get new upgrades instead.

Not that those extra +exp items make a huge difference but there are 13 item slots, even if you had +20 on each item (doable for sure) that adds up quickly, then with the xp bonus, and if you snag a leorics ring and hellfire ring, and toss in a high red gem (like a +30% mininum) leveling alts is far faster when you just want to get a toon to 60 and end game, or 70 in ros's case.

None of the stats currently make much different when leveling a new toon, other than run speed, putting a few points in % of crit or crit damage or maybe the life steal stat, but the goal of leveling is to reach 60, fastest way you can, it really has no impact if you have say an extra few % of crit or crit damage, or can steal 100 life a hit, in the long run. Until you hit 60 and have a full build and stuff to work with to take advantage of of those stats, i would think run speed and +exp would be all you need.

[Socialhealer]

gold find 100% useless, after paragon 600 you only gain 3 points every 4 levels who gives a fuck about 1% gold find when t6 is 1600%.

[Pendulous]

I like. Mainly because I've been wanting pickup radius in paragon points, and I think right now the severe nerf to it (max 2 on gear) makes it pretty much worthless. I think elite damage reduction would be the best option of the three you gave. Dodge might scale well with differing classes, and you can get plenty of CC reduction on gear.

gold find 100% useless, after paragon 600 you only gain 3 points every 4 levels who gives a fuck about 1% gold find when t6 is 1600%.

Yeah but not everyone can or will be able to farm T6. But yeah, it does need to scale better. It also depends on Mystic costs, because t this point, gold farming goes incredibly slow.

[Gallahadd]

I actually rather like that idea . Maybe change Dodge in the defense catagory to "Avoidance" so it'd be Block for my Crusader, because he doesn't really have any use for Dodge, but he's kinda built around Block.

[Socialhealer]

I like. Mainly because I've been wanting pickup radius in paragon points, and I think right now the severe nerf to it (max 2 on gear) makes it pretty much worthless. I think elite damage reduction would be the best option of the three you gave. Dodge might scale well with differing classes, and you can get plenty of CC reduction on gear.


Yeah but not everyone can or will be able to farm T6. But yeah, it does need to scale better. It also depends on Mystic costs, because t this point, gold farming goes incredibly slow.

i'd like the extra resource moved to the 4th panel and the gold find moved to panel 1, then i can avoid ever putting points into gold find.

[zito]

Are people having issues with acquiring gold that they need to spend paragon points for more gold? Even if gold find from paragon scaled better, still nobody would take it.

[Fencers]

A lot of things in ROS cost an incredible amount of gold. It's all gambling.

[Deleted]

Back when the game was in beta, sometime during December they altered the Paragon system. If i remember correctly before it used to be

Core: Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Vitality. (yes you could pick getting Dexterity as a Wizard for example)
Offensive: Attack Speed, Critical hit Chance, Critical hit Damage, Cooldown Red
Defensive: All Resistance, Life %, +% Armor, Dodge %
Utility: Max Resource, Movement Speed, Pickup Radius, Magic Find.

Since everyone loved having an extra chance to see legendaries drop, everyone used to cap Magic Find(shockingly Pickup Radius never became popular, i wonder why).

Anyway when they changed the system Magic Find got replaced by Gold Find...

[Socialhealer]

A lot of things in ROS cost an incredible amount of gold. It's all gambling.

not saying gold find is useless, we're saying the amount of gold find you gain via paragon points relative to just doing Torment 1-6 makes them useless vs things like life on hit or area damage which can boost your ability to move up a Torment level and gain far more gold find than putting points into the ability.

if it was +1% gold find multiplicative then each point would mean +16% on torment 6 and in total would change your gold find to 2400% for 50/50 points, not from 1600% to 1650% like it currently does which is laughable.

[Coldkil]

The system can be improved by adding other interesting stats - anyway i don't like the idea to have all the primary stats for every char; it was like this on one of the first implementations and changed to main stat only because literally no one was taking things like DEX for a Wizeard or STR on a Monk.

Atm, i find the system good enough to progress. Anyway there's some stats that are really lackluster like 0.1% crit/point or 0.5 hatred /point. It's not that i'm not going to cap them, but having that 5% more crit isn't that exciting nor a huge damage increase. Also movement speed is basically useless since it's very easy to get to cap with legendaries and atm i only have spent 2 points on it to reach the 25% increase - having more has no effect whatsoever.

[Deleted]

I like some of your suggestions. The system is new, there is definitely room for improvement. A better sorting of the categories is one possibility for that.

My opinions to some things mentioned in the discussion:
I agree with others on the "main" stat thing, but one can always change the number. E.g. give way more int and strength per point for an agi class, which would make it a choice between offense (agi) and defense (mostly int, as it is now with the all resi).

Gold find: Yes, it gets trivialized by the huge amount of gold find you get by the difficulty setting. Same goes for other sources of it, e.g. the ferrets of the DH: 10% gold find additive on top of the things you get from the difficulty is usually next to nothing. On the other hand, if it were multiplicative, 50% gold find would be much too high for the points. So I think the best way would be to reduce the amount per point, but make it multiplicative. This way it is a nice bonus on all difficulties, and not only nice for the lowest ones.

To lackluster stats: Some stats are weak. But I think paragon points shouldn't give that much of an advantage, just a little edge. The balancing between them could be a bit better, though.

[Niku]

The system can be improved by adding other interesting stats - anyway i don't like the idea to have all the primary stats for every char; it was like this on one of the first implementations and changed to main stat only because literally no one was taking things like DEX for a Wizeard or STR on a Monk.

Atm, i find the system good enough to progress. Anyway there's some stats that are really lackluster like 0.1% crit/point or 0.5 hatred /point. It's not that i'm not going to cap them, but having that 5% more crit isn't that exciting nor a huge damage increase. Also movement speed is basically useless since it's very easy to get to cap with legendaries and atm i only have spent 2 points on it to reach the 25% increase - having more has no effect whatsoever.

But paragon movement speed stacks with items'?

[Pendulous]

But paragon movement speed stacks with items'?

Yeah, but 25% is a hard cap now. I haven't seen anything except a speed shrine go above it.

[Faesroll]

Yeah, but 25% is a hard cap now. I haven't seen anything except a speed shrine go above it.

So much stuff ignores the cap, fleet footed, sprint, shrines, Mantra of conviction -overawe, tempest rush just to name a few.

[Niku]

Yeah, but 25% is a hard cap now. I haven't seen anything except a speed shrine go above it.

Huh, wtf. Maybe I'm just not keeping myself updated enough but all I read was "only 25% from items". So all my points in MS have been for nothing? <_<

[Pendulous]

So much stuff ignores the cap, fleet footed, sprint, shrines, Mantra of conviction -overawe, tempest rush just to name a few.

mantra of Evasion - Wind Through the Reeds doesn't.

- - - Updated - - -

Huh, wtf. Maybe I'm just not keeping myself updated enough but all I read was "only 25% from items". So all my points in MS have been for nothing? <_<

Paragon points do not stack over 25%.

[Coldkil]

Paragon points do not stack over 25%.

Yeah, that's the point - MS is good for when you don't have items to get to 25%, but i don't see my char go faster even if i put all of them there. It's the only actual stat i don't think i will cap since i can just put everything into DEX since it's not capped.

[Niku]

mantra of Evasion - Wind Through the Reeds doesn't.

- - - Updated - - -



Paragon points do not stack over 25%.

Did some testing, seems you're right. That should be more clear.