Tinker Discussion Thread

[Teriz]

1. He will if Blizzard deems so. Besides, the fact there's a cast time balances the rest of the skill;
2. 10 minutes is a good CD compared to similar abilities;
3. Isn't that what your 'pocket factory' does? The AotD skill summons ghouls one by one through its channeling time;
4. It will if Blizzard deems so.

1-4: All of which is nonsense because AoD comes from the DK's ultimate ability in WC3, which had a long CD. PF had a rotational CD in WC3 in which the factory's duration was longer than the CD. Something like Zen Sphere for example which has a 16 second duration and a 10 second CD.

That's question you should be asking yourself. Your 'tinker' idea is not gospel. None of your class builds never ever made into WoW, so I guess since you put those abilities in the Tinker class, that means we're safe and won't ever see them in game.

Based on just about every class in the game, you're wrong (again). If there's a Tinker class, its going to have the WC3 abilities. Its just how it is.

Meta's wings don't clutter nearly as much as your 'mecha backpack' does.

Once again, there's nothing to base any of that on.

And no skills in the game summons a big backpack to use in combat.

Thanks! Yet another example of new and unique gameplay mechanics that only the Tinker can bring.

By, according to you, making it change into a full mech and pilot it.

Where?

Nothing of your runemaster made in to let you claim 'your idea got implemented'. And it's so hilarious to think you believe the Brewmaster was too whimsical while the Goblin Tinker is not.

Nothing except a monk-like class that had melee healing. :shrug:

[Drilnos]

Well, a common Goblin NPC quote is: "Goblin products are built to blast."

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That summons one per use.

Besides, it's passive.

I spy with my little eye someone who does not have a shadow priest in his raid.

And yes, that is their purpose, to explode. If you bought an explosive device that was incapable of exploding, you would want your money back.

[Ielenia]

1-4: All of which is nonsense because AoD comes from the DK's ultimate ability in WC3, which had a long CD. PF had a rotational CD in WC3 in which the factory's duration was longer than the CD. Something like Zen Sphere for example which has a 16 second duration and a 10 second CD.

Which again means nothing if Blizzard deems such an ability worthy of a 10-minute cooldown plus channeling.

Based on just about every class in the game, you're wrong (again). If there's a Tinker class, its going to have the WC3 abilities. Its just how it is.

I'm wrong? Who was it again who claimed his 'runemaster' idea was brought into WoW as the monk? Oh, that's right. You.

Once again, there's nothing to base any of that on.

there is. Just look at the Tinker pictures you posted and the metamorphosis spell in-game.

Thanks! Yet another example of new and unique gameplay mechanics that only the Tinker can bring.

Which he won't for several reasons, two of them being: a) tinkers won't be implemented; and b) it would clutter the screen too much.

Nothing except a monk-like class that had melee healing. :shrug:

That's laughable. The broadest of definitons. It is not enough to claim your idea was adopted by Blizzard.

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I spy with my little eye someone who does not have a shadow priest in his raid.

Then you need to have your eye checked. That passive spell summons one apparition per proc.

[Teriz]

Which again means nothing if Blizzard deems such an ability worthy of a 10-minute cooldown plus channeling.

But the point is that there's no reason to do that considering the history of the ability.

I'm wrong? Who was it again who claimed his 'runemaster' idea was brought into WoW as the monk? Oh, that's right. You.

Where did I say that? I simply said I was correct on what the next archetype would be.

there is. Just look at the Tinker pictures you posted and the metamorphosis spell in-game.

Merely examples. I never said that a Tinker class would look exactly like those pictures. That's just silly.

Which he won't for several reasons, two of them being: a) tinkers won't be implemented; and b) it would clutter the screen too much.

a. Sounds more like a hope or a dream than a valid argument. There's a lot of things working in the Tinker's favor towards implementation.
b. Which implies that Blizzard's super-talented art department can't design a backpack that doesn't clutter screen. Nonsense.

That's laughable. The broadest of definitons. It is not enough to claim your idea was adopted by Blizzard.

Again, I never said it got adopted. I said that I got the archetype correct, which I did. How? Because that was the archetype that was missing from the class lineup. Based on similar criteria I feel that a technology class is next. Hope that helps.

Can you name one player ability that summons hordes of minions and can be used constantly, like many times during a raid encounter?

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=78203

Wait wait, here's another.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=114592

LoL!! I like how you're focusing on Shadow Apparition after Wild Imps completely proved you wrong.

[Drilnos]

Then you need to have your eye checked. That passive spell summons one apparition per proc.

When the end result is a massive conga line of spirits rhumba-ing its way to the boss, how you got to that point is just semantics.

[fixx]

Nothing except a monk-like class that had melee healing. :shrug:

I see overly broad generalizations are perfectly fine when they're working for your advantage.

Must be that same logic that tells you semantics and strawman arguments are perfectly valid way to carry a conversation when your only honest option would be conceding.

[Teriz]

I see overly broad generalizations are perfectly fine when they're working for your advantage.

If you read that old thread, you'd see that many thought I was crazy to suggest that Blizzard would create a class that had melee healing.

[fixx]

If you read that old thread, you'd see that many thought I was crazy to suggest that Blizzard would create a class that had melee healing.

It's not the same thing, you had class name wrong. Totally different! worlds apart! Just like Hammer tanks and Sky Golems.

Your words, your logic, your hypocrisy.

[Teriz]

It's not the same thing, you had class name wrong. Totally different! worlds apart! Just like Hammer tanks and Sky Golems.

Your words, your logic, your hypocrisy.

It's almost as if you didn't read the post you were responding to....

[fixx]

It's almost as if you didn't read the post you were responding to....

Sounds familiar? That's what you've been doing last thousand posts with the pathetic strawman arguments.

[Ielenia]

But the point is that there's no reason to do that considering the history of the ability.

'Charm' is an ultimate ability in WC3. The Priest's 'Dominate Mind' has no cooldown; Brewmaster's 'Storm, Earth and Fire' is its ultimate, yet its spammable in WoW; 'Doom' is a Pitlord's ultimate, but is spammable in WoW; 'Avatar' is the Mountain King's ultimate, and Warriors can use it every 3 minutes; 'Bladestorm' is the Blademaster's ultimate, Warriors use it every minute. Should I go on? See how Blizzard doesn't care about 'it's ultimate so it cannot be spammed' rule of yours?

You are no authority to claim what an ability should do, how it should do it, and how often it should do it, ignoring everything Blizzard has done so far with their classes just because you want ot sit at your keyboard and spam the hotkey to create as many PFs as you dream.

Where did I say that? I simply said I was correct on what the next archetype would be.

And then you were proven wrong, as the class does not uses runes at all.

Merely examples. I never said that a Tinker class would look exactly like those pictures. That's just silly.

You always mention a mecha backpack that is armored, equipped with many missile launchers, huge mechanical arms, and able to deploy 'pf's as often as your mind dreams. That thing cannot be small and do all of that. And since you always gospel on WC3 tinker, its mech is much bigger than the goblin.

a. Sounds more like a hope or a dream than a valid argument. There's a lot of things working in the Tinker's favor towards implementation.
b. Which implies that Blizzard's super-talented art department can't design a backpack that doesn't clutter screen. Nonsense.

a) it's no hope or dream. It's fact. Technology for players already exist in the form of the engineering profession. No need for redundancy;
b) Not one that does everything you claim it does. It is already too whimsical. Making it smaller and still do all those things will go beyond whimsical and into the realms of absurd.

Again, I never said it got adopted. I said that I got the archetype correct, which I did.

Which you didn't. We got a monk. No relation at all with your runemaster idea. Saying it 'heals' means nothing. Or else if they implemented a shadow caster that heals with shadow you would still claim it was based on your idea because 'it heals'.

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When the end result is a massive conga line of spirits rhumba-ing its way to the boss, how you got to that point is just semantics.

Irrelevant. Any spammable ability that summons one minion will always create a horde of minions.

Can you name one active ability that with one use create several minions and is spammable?

[Drilnos]

Irrelevant. Any spammable ability that summons one minion will always create a horde of minions.

Can you name one active ability that with one use create several minions and is spammable?

Talk about irrelevant. You asked for a player ability that fields a horde of minions multiple times in a fight. Now you're narrowing your focus because it turns out there are plenty of ways to do that that don't work at all like Army of the Dead. You want a rotational spell that works like Army of the Dead? Off the top of my head I can't name one. Sounds like a fresh new mechanic to utilize, to be honest.

[Ielenia]

Talk about irrelevant. You asked for a player ability that fields a horde of minions multiple times in a fight. Now you're narrowing your focus because it turns out there are plenty of ways to do that that don't work at all like Army of the Dead. You want a rotational spell that works like Army of the Dead? Off the top of my head I can't name one. Sounds like a fresh new mechanic to utilize, to be honest.

No, I asked for one ability that would do the same thing as 'pocket factory', which is to summon many minions with a single use, as Teriz. Your examples summon one minion per use.

[Rhamses]

No, I asked for one ability that would do the same thing as 'pocket factory', which is to summon many minions with a single use, as Teriz. Your examples summon one minion per use.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Glyph_of_Imp_Swarm

Satisfied?

[Teriz]

'
You are no authority to claim what an ability should do, how it should do it, and how often it should do it, ignoring everything Blizzard has done so far with their classes just because you want ot sit at your keyboard and spam the hotkey to create as many PFs as you dream.

Yeah, that's not how PF worked in WC3, and I seriously doubt it would work that way in WoW.

And then you were proven wrong, as the class does not uses runes at all.

The archetype was Monk.....

You always mention a mecha backpack that is armored, equipped with many missile launchers, huge mechanical arms, and able to deploy 'pf's as often as your mind dreams. That thing cannot be small and do all of that. And since you always gospel on WC3 tinker, its mech is much bigger than the goblin.

Why couldn't it be small? We're playing a video game.

a) it's no hope or dream. It's fact. Technology for players already exist in the form of the engineering profession. No need for redundancy;
b) Not one that does everything you claim it does. It is already too whimsical. Making it smaller and still do all those things will go beyond whimsical and into the realms of absurd.

A. It wouldn't be redundancy since Engineering is a profession not a class.
B. Again, we're talking about a videogame where a Monk carries hundreds of invisible barrels and rolls around with no problem. The art department can make a hammer tank that doesn't clutter the screen.

Your argument has gone off the rails.

Which you didn't. We got a monk. No relation at all with your runemaster idea. Saying it 'heals' means nothing. Or else if they implemented a shadow caster that heals with shadow you would still claim it was based on your idea because 'it heals'.

Runemaster= Magic-based Monk class.

And like I said, I was right about a Monk class that would have a tank spec, a DPS spec, and a melee healing spec. I even got the armor right. I just got the theme wrong.

[Ielenia]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Glyph_of_Imp_Swarm
Satisfied?

Close, but not quite. Teriz' words:

PF had a rotational CD in WC3 in which the factory's duration was longer than the CD. Something like Zen Sphere for example which has a 16 second duration and a 10 second CD.

Imp Swarm has a 2-minute cooldown

[Teriz]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Glyph_of_Imp_Swarm

Satisfied?

LoL! It just isn't your night is it Ielenia?

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Close, but not quite. Teriz' words:

Imp Swarm has a 2-minute cooldown

Nice attempt to take my words out of context. I was talking about why PF wouldn't be channeled and have a 10 minute cooldown.

[Drilnos]

No, I asked for one ability that would do the same thing as 'pocket factory', which is to summon many minions with a single use, as Teriz. Your examples summon one minion per use.

No, that is not what you asked for. This is what you asked for.

Can you name one player ability that summons hordes of minions and can be used constantly, like many times during a raid encounter?

End quote.

And forgive me if I'm not really following your little feud with Teriz, but that's not how pocket factory worked anyway. The original pocket factory from WC3 summoned minions one at a time from a fire-and-forget spawn point. Which makes it a lot more similar in terms of mechanics to Shadow Apparitions than to AotD, but still not identical. There is no current player ability that mimics it mechanically, and the ones which come close do not, in any way, include Army of the Dead in their ranks.

[Ielenia]

Yeah, that's not how PF worked in WC3, and I seriously doubt it would work that way in WoW.

Again, you're no authority, so you can 'doubt it' all you want, it's just your opinion.

The archetype was Monk.....

I could swear the archetype was 'Runemaster'.

Why couldn't it be small? We're playing a video game.

Every game has rules. And WoW rules dictate something like your 'mecha backpack' be as big as as a normal backpack and still do all you want it to do is absurd.

A. It wouldn't be redundancy since Engineering is a profession not a class.
B. Again, we're talking about a videogame where a Monk carries hundreds of invisible barrels and rolls around with no problem. The art department can make a hammer tank that doesn't clutter the screen.

A) Technology and technology. Redundancy.
B) Are you seriously comparing the size of one small-ish keg of beer to several rockets?

Your argument has gone off the rails.

Mine is still on track. Yours never even touched the rails in the first place.

Runemaster= Magic-based Monk class.

Yeah, the only 'magic' is in one spec. No runes whatsoever. Your class idea wasn't used. Stop claiming it was, when you get 90% of the class wrong.

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Nice attempt to take my words out of context. I was talking about why PF wouldn't be channeled and have a 10 minute cooldown.

I didn't take them out of context. You said it would have less than 30 seconds cooldown. So much so you compared it to Zen Sphere. It was very much in context.

[Teriz]

Again, you're no authority, so you can 'doubt it' all you want, it's just your opinion.

You don't need to be an authority to apply simple logic and recognize that there's no way PF would work that way. It wouldn't make sense.

I could swear the archetype was 'Runemaster'.

The class name was Runemaster. The Archetype was "monk". Hence why I said "monk" several times in that thread. I was advocating for a Monk class.

Every game has rules. And WoW rules dictate something like your 'mecha backpack' be as big as as a normal backpack and still do all you want it to do is absurd.

Please provide a link where this rule is located. I would like to read about this rule, and other rules that supposedly govern the WoW universe.

A) Technology and technology. Redundancy.
B) Are you seriously comparing the size of one small-ish keg of beer to several rockets?

A. Profession and Class. No redundancy.
B. More like hundreds of kegs that would be necessary to preform Keg smash during a raid situation. Where does the Monk store them all?

Mine is still on track. Yours never even touched the rails in the first place.

I'm happy you feel that way. Too bad its not reality.

Yeah, the only 'magic' is in one spec. No runes whatsoever. Your class idea wasn't used. Stop claiming it was, when you get 90% of the class wrong.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Runemaster

Runemasters are monk-like arcane spellcaster and melee fighters who empower themselves with magical energies by inscribing runes onto their bodies.

Wrong again.

I didn't take them out of context. You said it would have less than 30 seconds cooldown. So much so you compared it to Zen Sphere. It was very much in context.

Um no. I was talking about rotational cooldowns, i.e. CDs that can be used in rotation due to its duration overlapping with its CD. I used Zen Sphere as an example because its a rotational CD. Army of the Dead is NOT a rotational CD because it has a 10 minute CD.

PF would probably have between 30-45 second CD, and you could only summon one at a time. As Drilnos and Rhamses stated, its unlike any other ability currently in WoW.