Tinker Discussion Thread

[judgementofantonidas]

Why? It is the stupidest class concept ever yet people are saying its the most popular possible class after Demon Hunters in that class poll thread (can't link stuff).

I can understand why Demon Hunters are so popular, but why Tinkers? I've never even heard of them until I joined this forum and saw like five topics about them...

they aren't. people just like to annoy others by trolling the forums with repetitive posts about them.

[Rhamses]

Really? not attached to XT at all? That's funny, because from THIS gravity bomb, in the "Effect #1", it's strangely linked to your "Uncategorized" spell... ain't that strange?

Read the tooltips please. One turns the target into a gravity bomb pulling others in and dealing damage. The one I linked to is a gravity bomb that pulls targets in and explodes. The latter is similar to the Tinker ability.

..and? Just because it can also heal machines doesn't mean it's clearly the sign of a tinker ability. If anything it only enforces the idea that a skilled alchemist needs to create something that heals both biological and mechanical parts.

It's also in the ability set of a technology-based NPC.

Uhh... because I'm pretty sure the majority of people will tell you that tinkering isn't the first thing someone thinks of when someone says, "Cannon".

That's irrelevant. What you're "pretty sure of" has little bearing on what the ability actually did in WC3.

You heard it here folks - Engineering never existed as an idea in the Warcraft universe before tinkers.

No, the Engineering profession never existed as an idea in the WC universe before Tinkers.

[Monstercloud]

Read the tooltips please. One turns the target into a gravity bomb pulling others in and dealing damage. The one I linked to is a gravity bomb that pulls targets in and explodes. The latter is similar to the Tinker ability.

How badly do your arms hurt when you try so hard to stretch your point?

or

So how long have you been married to your idea?

...I'm saying you're being intellectually dishonest with yourself.

It's also in the ability set of a technology-based NPC.

So going back to what I originally said, you are just basing your entire argument on the delivery system, not what it actually does. Tell me, exactly what sort of mechanical know-how is required to make a "mister"... because they do the exact same thing with garden hose nozzles. Can't be that hard, mine mists, and does 6 other things.

That's irrelevant. What you're "pretty sure of" has little bearing on what the ability actually did in WC3.

You're doing the exact same thing.

No, the Engineering profession never existed as an idea in the WC universe before Tinkers.

So, you can use a specific game and one hero as a reason of why there should be a class, but I can't use a generalized profession when applied to the entire WC universe. It's statements like these that I'm glad I don't browse certain parts of these forums.

[Scabior]

I really don't like tinkers. People who say it makes the most sense baffle me.

[Gothicshark]

Why? It is the stupidest class concept ever yet people are saying its the most popular possible class after Demon Hunters in that class poll thread (can't link stuff).

I can understand why Demon Hunters are so popular, but why Tinkers? I've never even heard of them until I joined this forum and saw like five topics about them...

Only on MMOC, and it is because 5 people have been waging a Tinker War for the last 3 years. Go to any other WOW forum, or Main forums and mention Tinker, people will think you are an idiot.

[Deleted]

I really don't like tinkers. People who say it makes the most sense baffle me.

Completely agree. What I dislike even more is people making polls telling Blizzard what we all want (with such a ludicrously low minority to boot). Well we don't all want that. Most don't.

I want to play Blizzard's game. The one they invent, their world. Nothing else.

[Deleted]

Coz we have too much Hunters in the game who are bored and want to reroll in to...something else

[godofslack]

Completely agree. What I dislike even more is people making polls telling Blizzard what we all want (with such a ludicrously low minority to boot). Well we don't all want that. Most don't.

I want to play Blizzard's game. The one they invent, their world. Nothing else.

It's impossible to say that most don't want Tinkers or Demon Hunters as no one has a sample size large enough to extrapolate to the whole, so saying that most don't want tinkers is nuts, and honestly chances are most are completely ignorant to the discussion.

Only on MMOC, and it is because 5 people have been waging a Tinker War for the last 3 years. Go to any other WOW forum, or Main forums and mention Tinker, people will think you are an idiot.

If someone thinks someone is an idiot for liking the idea of a class I don't think they are really qualified to measure intelligence.

[Deleted]

Tinkers already exist in WoW, not as a playable class, but lore wise, and i think in game they do exist, however considering GC comment, probably unlikely, Demon Hunters also exist in WoW (OTHER THAN ILLIDAN), so they can be likely (at least more likely), but read on the lore of Demon Hunters, and ull see why its hard becoming a demon hunter.




= Tinker

[Gothicshark]

It's impossible to say that most don't want Tinkers or Demon Hunters as no one has a sample size large enough to extrapolate to the whole, so saying that most don't want tinkers is nuts, and honestly chances are most are completely ignorant to the discussion.


If someone thinks someone is an idiot for liking the idea of a class I don't think they are really qualified to measure intelligence.

It's not a measure of intelligence, it is asking for a different game and game play style found in other games to be applied to WOW solely on the lack of understanding that the idea of tinker in WOW is anyone can be a tinker, you can be a warrior and a tinker, a hunter and a tinker. Basically, tinker is a profession in WOW and not a class. That is the reason we have quests where we drive mechs and do vehicle combat and not a class that does that. So when people think tinker fans are idiots, is because they clearly don't want to play WOW.

On top of that the 5 people who constantly beg for Tinkers are some of the biggest trolls in MMO-C. They have no desire to listen to the long list of reasons why Tinkers are a bad idea, they ignore the fact that when asked Blizzard Dev members have laughed in their faces. So yes you might think it is a fallacy to judge a person asking for Tinkers, but the reality is they themselves have proven they are idiots over the last 3 years.

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= Tinker

Gnome Mage, with Engineering.

[Teriz]

It's not a measure of intelligence, it is asking for a different game and game play style found in other games to be applied to WOW solely on the lack of understanding that the idea of tinker in WOW is anyone can be a tinker, you can be a warrior and a tinker, a hunter and a tinker. Basically, tinker is a profession in WOW and not a class. That is the reason we have quests where we drive mechs and do vehicle combat and not a class that does that. So when people think tinker fans are idiots, is because they clearly don't want to play WOW.

The problem with this theory is that we also come across a class of people who use technology to beat the living tar out of us. Anyone can't be these people. And our lowly profession isn't anywhere near up to snuff to this type of power. So lore wise there is a power gap and a technology gap between what the players can do with tech, and what this class of NPCs can do with tech. This creates a design space that isn't filled, and a large logical hole in the WoW universe. This hole is made larger by having toe highly technical player classes on opposing sides of a faction war who are also seemingly unable to tap into this more advanced technology, yet their NPC counterparts can.

It would be similar to playing a game with no Mage class, yet we have the Enchanting profession. Your argument would be that Enchanting covers all aspects Arcane magic, so we have no need for a Mage class. Yet while I play the game, I keep running into and fighting these super powerful Mages who can do things my profession can't do. I visit Dalaran and see all these Mages doing crazy things, and the best I can do is enchant items and make wands. That would be a design hole that would need to be filled, because it doesn't make sense.

On top of that the 5 people who constantly beg for Tinkers are some of the biggest trolls in MMO-C. They have no desire to listen to the long list of reasons why Tinkers are a bad idea, they ignore the fact that when asked Blizzard Dev members have laughed in their faces. So yes you might think it is a fallacy to judge a person asking for Tinkers, but the reality is they themselves have proven they are idiots over the last 3 years.

Please link us to this discussion where Blizzard laughed in their faces. I seem to recall that when asked the developers simply said that its a matter of tone. Basically if a designer gets the tone of the class right, all systems are go for a Tinker inclusion.

FYI, If you honestly think its hard for a game designer to design a fitting tone for a character class, you're fooling yourself.

[Gothicshark]

The problem with this theory is that we also come across a class of people who use technology to beat the living tar out of us. Anyone can't be these people. And our lowly profession isn't anywhere near up to snuff to this type of power. So lore wise there is a power gap and a technology gap between what the players can do with tech, and what this class of NPCs can do with tech. This creates a design space that isn't filled, and a large logical hole in the WoW universe. This hole is made larger by having toe highly technical player classes on opposing sides of a faction war who are also seemingly unable to tap into this more advanced technology, yet their NPC counterparts can.

It would be similar to playing a game with no Mage class, yet we have the Enchanting profession. Your argument would be that Enchanting covers all aspects Arcane magic, so we have no need for a Mage class. Yet while I play the game, I keep running into and fighting these super powerful Mages who can do things my profession can't do. I visit Dalaran and see all these Mages doing crazy things, and the best I can do is enchant items and make wands. That would be a design hole that would need to be filled, because it doesn't make sense.



Please link us to this discussion where Blizzard laughed in their faces. I seem to recall that when asked the developers simply said that its a matter of tone. Basically if a designer gets the tone of the class right, all systems are go for a Tinker inclusion.

FYI, If you honestly think its hard for a game designer to design a fitting tone for a character class, you're fooling yourself.

Actually, for every boss that rides into battle on a mech, we have 2-3 times more quests/PVP/ and Boss fights where we drive a mech into battle. Also your comparison doesn't work. Because what you are asking for is a Profession to be made into a class that copies everything from a current class (Hunter/Warrior) and from the Profession Engineering. As for the mounted combat experience, which is your big focus on your Tinker class, it was promised in TBC, it was partially implemented in Wrath, and put on the back burner after cataclysm. Being a tinker in game means you are an Engineer doing Mounted Combat. If we didn't have World PVP they would have already implemented it, as they figured out several methods over the years, and frankly it is frustrating that they nerf Engineering every expansion and refuse to implement vehicle combat which is now in the base code of the game.

I find your class concept offensive and demeaning to the game, if implemented it would literally kill WOW. Of course since you do not read nor understand any objection to you idea, and because you approach this idea as fact. You will continue to troll these forms and others, with this idea.

[frymastermeat]

Like the Emerald Dream expansion that's definitely positively coming any day now, it's just a lack of imagination. People cling to ideas that they see as viable and obsess about them.

[Hooliganz]

There was a blue tweet reply about it, I believe it was Ghostcrawler. Said it was too "Whimsical" for WoW which is about the best explanation I've found for why it wouldn't work and why I also think it's dumb. I seriously can't imagine someone using nothing but technology beating a good Paladin or Death Knight.

this is probably the best answer
couldn't have put it better

[godofslack]

I find your class concept offensive and demeaning to the game, if implemented it would literally kill WOW. Of course since you do not read nor understand any objection to you idea, and because you approach this idea as fact. You will continue to troll these forms and others, with this idea.

It's probably because your objections are nonsensical and frankly, ridiculous. No one expects the over the top battletank tinker, that and exploding sheep are what Ghostcrawler ment by too whimsical. And no there is not a single class in WoW that is defined by it's ultimate ability(s) in Warcraft 3.

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this is probably the best answer
couldn't have put it better

Well warriors can beat a good paladin or death knight, and tech is insanely powerful in the Warcraft universe.

[Cassidin]

Stupid to you, awesome to others, people simply have different tastes.



Because a class based around technology isn't remotely the same the same as having a engineering as your profession considering it isn't part of your class and barely influences your play.

I personally love the idea of a tinker/technology (rickety tech is awesome, so no damned out of place TK like tech please) class and there is more then enough thematic space in WoW to make it happen. I'd make it a mix between the WIII tinker and alchemist and it having 4 specs (tank/melee/physical ranged/healer) like a druid.

I've suddenly got this vision of a gnome at the start of a boss fight setting up his cannon.... bolting it to the floor.... loading ammo...... aligning sights..... at the same time saying things like, "you just wait, this is going to be awesome", "Ill be ready in a moment - you just go ahead and start without me", "Who ordered up an extra large can of whoopass?" a la Millhouse Manastorm

[Gothicshark]

It's probably because your objections are nonsensical and frankly, ridiculous.

I didn't state my Objections. So how would you know any of that.

[godofslack]

I didn't state my Objections. So how would you know any of that.

Then what is the blurb above if not objections. If you have better ones, it would be a different story but I'm judging by what I saw in the earlier comment.

[Deleted]

Tinkerers fill a technological niche that is sort of missing in WoW, outside of the Engineering profession which is kind of lacking. There IS easily material for an entire class, the Gnomes and Goblins would get a poster class and it fits into Warcraft as it is now (aforementioned Engineering aswell as the Gnomes/Goblins have paved the way).

I whole-heartedly support Tinkerers as a playable class. I'd much, much rather see the Tinkerer class than I would the Demon Hunter class.

[Teriz]

Actually, for every boss that rides into battle on a mech, we have 2-3 times more quests/PVP/ and Boss fights where we drive a mech into battle. Also your comparison doesn't work. Because what you are asking for is a Profession to be made into a class that copies everything from a current class (Hunter/Warrior) and from the Profession Engineering.

Actually that's false. What I'm asking for is the Tinker hero from WC3 combined with the Alchemist hero from WC3. This tech class would use the Hammer Tank, or mechanical backpack seen in almost every Tinker iteration:

http://i1.2pcdn.com/node14/image/art...ypklkcoqo4.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...t_Seaclock.jpg
http://img.blog.zdn.vn/7584197.jpg
http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...roes_Rend1.jpg
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...Epictinker.jpg

And the ability set;

Pocket Factory
Creates a factory which automatically constructs Clockwerk Goblins. Clockwerk Goblins explode upon death, causing damage to nearby enemy units

Cluster Rocket
Bombards an area with rockets, stunning enemy land units for 1 second and damaging nearby enemy units.

Engineering Upgrade
Improves other Tinker abilities with each level learned;

Cluster Rockets - Larger Area.
Pocket Factory - Builds Clockwerk Goblins more quickly.
Robo-Goblin - Increases armor and Strength; enhances Demolish.

Also gives bonus damage and increases the Tinker's movement speed.

Healing Spray
Sprays waves of healing mist that heals units in a target area.

Acid Bomb
Hurls a flask of acid at a target. The flask breaks upon impact, splashing a powerful acid on nearby hostile units. Decreases armor; deals slightly less damage over time to nearby targets.

Rock-It! Turret
Creates a turret that deals 30 damage. Attacks slow movement speed by 25%. Lasts for 30 seconds.

Deth Lazor
Gazlowe charges his laser. When he releases the laser, it fires, with its range and damage depending on how long Gazlowe charged his laser.

Xplodium Charge
Places a bomb that deals 65 damage to enemies within target area after 4 seconds, stunning them for 2 seconds.

Grav-o-bomb 3000
Pulls enemies towards the center of the target area after a 1.5 second delay and deals 150 damage.

Robo-Goblin
Transforms in to an unstoppable Robo-Goblin. Basic Attacks deal damage to minions and structures. Also charges Deth Lazor and explodes Xplodium Bombs twice as fast. Lasts for 16 seconds.

Salvage.
Gazlowe can pick up scraps of his old creations to regenerate mana and reduce cooldowns.

Let me know if any of that is in either Hunter, Warrior, or within the Engineering profession.

As for the mounted combat experience, which is your big focus on your Tinker class, it was promised in TBC, it was partially implemented in Wrath, and put on the back burner after cataclysm. Being a tinker in game means you are an Engineer doing Mounted Combat. If we didn't have World PVP they would have already implemented it, as they figured out several methods over the years, and frankly it is frustrating that they nerf Engineering every expansion and refuse to implement vehicle combat which is now in the base code of the game.

Nope. See above. The Tinker isn't in mounted combat. They wear a robotic backpack that is a weapons platform, and a location for utility support. It is a way of utilizing a mech concept without actually having the character inside a mech.

I find your class concept offensive and demeaning to the game, if implemented it would literally kill WOW. Of course since you do not read nor understand any objection to you idea, and because you approach this idea as fact. You will continue to troll these forms and others, with this idea.

When the objection to the idea is as ridiculous as saying that it would "kill WoW", I have no choice but to ignore it. Its a nonsensical objection to this class idea which would fit perfectly in the game world.