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  1. #1

    I hate PVE. Why do you guys find raids/dungeons appealling?

    This is going to be a controversial post, but I have a confession to make:

    I hate pve.

    I mean, I really hate it.

    I don't understand why any one does it repeatedly.

    Normal experience in an LFR raid is this:

    1) Massive amounts of waiting around for tanks/healers.
    2) No tactics mentioned, or if they are they are communicated far too quickly.
    3) Actual fights often devolve into some kind of demented game of twister,
    "stand in the red stuff", "jump in the blue stuff, "move in and out of the green
    stuff.
    4) Group wipes on anything other than tank-and-spank.
    5) Post-menstrual healer (and I'm not talking about women here mainly) blames
    poor dps. Or the tank. Or any one but the post-menstrual healer.
    6) Some complete bastard wips out recount.
    7) Two things then happen as a result i) tank's feelings are hurt and he quits,
    more waiting ii) dps start focusing on their rotation and ignore tactics altogether
    so the recount nazi doesn't pick on them, group wipes again.

    OK, so as I'm sure the pve'rs will say, LFR sucks, which it does, massively. Join a
    good guild.

    Now, I can appreciate a good guild with a great raid leader would make for a more
    positive experience. But, that's like saying working in a bank is great if your co-workers
    are fun people. However, you do it, as the content becomes familiar through repetition
    it becomes a chore, as does anything. There is no possibility of deviation from your
    core tactics/rotation, and these things take hours.

    I usually complete new raids at least once. But, I can't understand how any one can do the
    same content again and again and again till autumn. Indeed, many don't, judging by
    the numbers that dropped off in dragon soul. Seriously, how do you raiders manage it?

    If you contrast this with PVP: every new BG is quite a different experience. There are infinite
    number of strategies and permutations depending on your own abilities and those of the
    teams. You can try something new every game and it feels great when you discover a new
    trick that really works.
    Yet, pvp is really an afterthought for Blizzard despite the fact it is competitive with PVE based
    on subscriber stats.

    Also, I really can't understand the lack of importance Blizzard place on questing. No one ever
    mentions this, but no one ever actually started wow at endgame content. Most of us had to
    level up for literally months, at least, pre-cata. We started by going out in the world, questing
    and world pvp. Yet it seems that the world, beautiful as it is, is essentially now just an introduction
    to pve content I don't want to do. Why isn't it an end in itself?

    You may say: OK, so don't pve and shut up. Which I'd be very happy to do. But, unfortunately at
    the moment you can't do world pvp without pve gear. The best pvp is actually world pvp, difficult
    as it is to get a world raid going. There is no better experience for a pvper than trying to kill garrosh
    in uninstanced Ogrimmar with fifty horde trying to stop us. So, you have no real choice if you want
    to do that than grind through raids.
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  2. #2
    How is PvP really all that different? You're doing the exact same things over and over, are you not?

    Also there is a much bigger challenge in heroic raiding in heroics, especially 25m, than most people give it credit for. Most people who say raiding isn't hard are just a kind of backseat driver. They haven't raided in a deep heroic raiding guild, don't do challenge modes. I don't think using LFR is a good example. The reason people can do that same content over and over is the same reason people can play Diablo 3 over and over, loot; progress. Some people do it for the challenge, heroic raiding. Those are just two examples.

    I hear people say the exact same stuff about PvP that you have. It's always changing, always different, different strats. No offense, but after you play BGs/arena for so long, eventually you're just performing the same strategies, playing against a certain amount of healers/dps or comps over and over. You're doing the same thing over and over, no different than PvE.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by advanta View Post
    Normal experience in an LFR raid is this:
    Found your problem.

  4. #4
    The Patient MyCelar's Avatar
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    LFR isnt pve though :P.

    Never was.

    Indeed, nothing more boring then farm when there is no more content to come, but trying to get bis for next patch I could live with.
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  5. #5
    Scarab Lord Zka's Avatar
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    LFR is full of incompetent players. Nothing to love there.
    I somewhat agree about the overabundance of "twister" game, it's just annoying.

    Retired raider coming back for WoD.
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  6. #6
    Different strokes for different folks. I feel the same way about PVP in WoW as you do about PvE. Just play what you like and let PvE people go about their business in peace and vice versa and we'll all be fine and happy with the game! ^^
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  7. #7
    because i play this game for the story
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  8. #8
    If you hate PVE (which the game consists of mostly) I dont think this game appeals to you, there are better alternatives out there.

    Find another game.
    [email protected] | 8gb RAM | Geforce GTX 660 OC | 120gb SSD
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  9. #9
    Separate lock-outs on LFR, normal and heroic in WoD. I like to see what effect that has, aside from it being opposite what Blizzard wants (or claims to want) the last few years...

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Razorice's Avatar
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    I prefer PvE over PvP in WoW mostly due to it's balance. You do raids and dungeons over and over in PvE, but you do Arenas/BG's over and over in PvP. Same shit different spoon.

  11. #11
    Hehe. Flamebaiting. Okay, I'll bite.

    On the other side of the coin, you're enjoying PvP which is universally panned for being broken and unbalanced and every game is just the same without barely any variance. I try to PvP and I get bored about thirty seconds into any Arena or Battleground.

    I honestly wouldn't mind if PvP as a concept would be dropped in favor of a complete focus on the PvE side. Of course, that won't ever happen. But I wouldn't be sad to see it gone.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Q: But who are the forum QQers going to QQ at now?
    A: They'll find another name and still miss the point that Blizzard designs as a collective.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    How is PvP really all that different? You're doing the exact same things over and over, are you not?

    Also there is a much bigger challenge in heroic raiding in heroics, especially 25m, than most people give it credit for. Most people who say raiding isn't hard are just a kind of backseat driver. They haven't raided in a deep heroic raiding guild, don't do challenge modes. I don't think using LFR is a good example. The reason people can do that same content over and over is the same reason people can play Diablo 3 over and over, loot; progress. Some people do it for the challenge, heroic raiding. Those are just two examples.

    I hear people say the exact same stuff about PvP that you have. It's always changing, always different, different strats. No offense, but after you play BGs/arena for so long, eventually you're just performing the same strategies, playing against a certain amount of healers/dps or comps over and over. You're doing the same thing over and over, no different than PvE.
    I'm not taking offense and I hope none is given. I'm just genuinely curious about what you guys get out of pve. I presume I'm missing something.

    With regard to pvp: I don't see the level of repitition as comparable. You have the germ of a good point in that most pvpers actually do the same crap every bg. But, for the creative, you don't have to.

    Let's take AV as an example, look at the number of potential strategies you can employ:

    1) Defend Balinda.
    2) Defend the bunkers
    3) Attack the towers.
    4) Zerg to Drek.
    5) Fight on the field of strife.
    6) Kite horde into the druids (try it, its enormous fun).
    7) Defend Vandar.
    8) Summon a giant fucking tree (admittedly very difficult these days but possible).
    9) Kite the Alterac yeti into the horde, my favourite.
    10) Blow people off cliffs/the bridge with knockback.
    11) Take the mines.

    etc etc....this is just off the top of my head.

    Now, in pve, I can't actually go anywhere the raid isn't without dieing instantly.

    There's a pretty much optimal rotation and set of tactics in pve. Any deviation from that
    rotation is just going to lower your dps. When you get new content and new abilities, sure
    that changes, but we have to wait until autumn for that.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by advanta View Post
    AV tactics
    While you are correct that there are tactics to employ, most AV matches usually turns out after the same identical formula.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Q: But who are the forum QQers going to QQ at now?
    A: They'll find another name and still miss the point that Blizzard designs as a collective.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    because i play this game for the story
    That's another reason I actually do pve. But, pve is a terrible way to absorb lore.
    I don't even think that is controversial. PVE is just too intense to focus on the lore.

    One thing that saddens me when you get to the end of a dungeon/raid: most players
    just bugger off because they've been there thirty billion times before, whereas you
    might be interested in the conclusion of a fascinating story line. You're left with this
    sort of dead, lonely feeling as you watch the conclusion of what is often a gripping
    finale as the sole remaining member of the group.
    Last edited by advanta; 2014-03-24 at 11:24 AM.
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  15. #15
    Now, I can appreciate a good guild with a great raid leader would make for a more
    positive experience. But, that's like saying working in a bank is great if your co-workers
    are fun people. However, you do it, as the content becomes familiar through repetition
    it becomes a chore, as does anything. There is no possibility of deviation from your
    core tactics/rotation, and these things take hours.
    Well, for starters, you can totally have deviation from tactics and rotation. From fight to fight, how you approach it as DPS will change. As a healer, you may have a different setup, each fight will present a different sort of challenge. As a tank, it's all about how best to get the positional requirements of the raid in line while staying alive and doing lots of damage while doing it. As a raid leader and all of his/her helpers, it's about working out the strategy, figuring it out and implementing it, making whatever your raid's composition is work to beat a boss.

    And as a raid as a whole, it's about spending however many tens, or hundreds of attempts to down a brutal boss and the rewarding feeling of a great huge group of people all beating a huge fight together.

    In PvP, even at its largest organized scale - 10v10 ranked BGs - no single battle feels like the almost insurmountable hurdle that an extreme fight such as Heroic Lei Shen, or Heroic Rag, or Heroic Lich King can feel like. Going all the way back to Lich King for example, when you start that fight, it is just this MOUNTAIN of challenge. A long fight, with no truly easy phases. Lots of coordination - tranq shots gotta happen within split seconds, stuns on val'kyrs must be coordinated and happen right away and on demand, soaking spirits needs to be taken care of on a rotation, you need a competent leader in the spirit phase and the raid has to stick to that leader (let's not even mention the hell that is doing defile correctly) - and it all has to happen in one pull. Getting it all to happen at once is a big deal, and it's just a load of fun when you actually get it down.

    So yeah, maybe it's like working at a bank with really fun co-workers... if every time you closed a transaction at the bank, you got a big cut of the profits and fireworks shot into the sky.

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  16. #16
    Mechagnome
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    You get together with a cool group of friends and kill some dragons. Whats not to like?
    Both pvp and pve is shit if u solo it.

  17. #17
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    Eh people enjoy PvE for a number of different reasons.

    I will say the most fun experiences that I've had raiding aren't downing that boss or anything; rather, at the end of the tier, when most everyone is in BiS or near BiS, pulling really high ranks. That's the appealing aspect for me, figuring out different tricks on fights that I can use to push myself to be a better player, then seeing how I stack up against other people of the same class on a relatively equal scale.

    Killing bosses is fun too, just not the "Best part ever" in my opinion.

    Although I will say, PvE isn't really fun outside of HMs. So if you really want to give it a fair shake, I'd recommend not doing LFR/Flex/Normal.

    As the above poster said, the challenge itself also feels "harder and more difficult" compared to facing off against 10 others.

    In the end, it all comes down to the people you play with. If you have some good buddies that raid, you'll enjoy PvE for the most part, if you have some good buddies that PvP, you'll probably enjoy PvP for the most part.

  18. #18
    Warchief miffy23's Avatar
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    OP: "STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE".

    There's really nothing to say but "tastes differ". You might as well lament as to why some people like pizza and others don't. Good grief.

  19. #19
    As far as why I play PvE - it's the social aspect. Running raids with 9 of my pals, joking around and killing difficult bosses together, that's what I like about it. Gear doesn't matter. Hell, the content itself barely matters, as long as I have something to kill with my friends.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Q: But who are the forum QQers going to QQ at now?
    A: They'll find another name and still miss the point that Blizzard designs as a collective.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ixuzcc View Post
    While you are correct that there are tactics to employ, most AV matches usually turns out after the same identical formula.
    Yeah, you are right. However, you individually can do whatever the hell you want.

    The things I mentioned can mostly be done in solo. After some practice it is even possible to hold
    up the horde at Balinda for around a minute.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by miffy23 View Post
    OP: "STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE".
    That wasn't why I started the thread. I have no wish to stop people doing what they enjoy. I'm happy for them.

    I'm trying to understand it.

    Let's change the tone of the thread:

    What do you enjoy about PVE?

    What are the moments in raids do you have great memories of?

    What motivates you to do the same content repeatedly?
    Make your character SUPER SHINY!
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