I hate PVE. Why do you guys find raids/dungeons appealling?

[Deleted]

This is going to be a controversial post, but I have a confession to make:

I hate pve.

I mean, I really hate it.

I don't understand why any one does it repeatedly.

Normal experience in an LFR raid is this:

1) Massive amounts of waiting around for tanks/healers.
2) No tactics mentioned, or if they are they are communicated far too quickly.
3) Actual fights often devolve into some kind of demented game of twister,
"stand in the red stuff", "jump in the blue stuff, "move in and out of the green
stuff.
4) Group wipes on anything other than tank-and-spank.
5) Post-menstrual healer (and I'm not talking about women here mainly) blames
poor dps. Or the tank. Or any one but the post-menstrual healer.
6) Some complete bastard wips out recount.
7) Two things then happen as a result i) tank's feelings are hurt and he quits,
more waiting ii) dps start focusing on their rotation and ignore tactics altogether
so the recount nazi doesn't pick on them, group wipes again.

OK, so as I'm sure the pve'rs will say, LFR sucks, which it does, massively. Join a
good guild.

Now, I can appreciate a good guild with a great raid leader would make for a more
positive experience. But, that's like saying working in a bank is great if your co-workers
are fun people. However, you do it, as the content becomes familiar through repetition
it becomes a chore, as does anything. There is no possibility of deviation from your
core tactics/rotation, and these things take hours.

I usually complete new raids at least once. But, I can't understand how any one can do the
same content again and again and again till autumn. Indeed, many don't, judging by
the numbers that dropped off in dragon soul. Seriously, how do you raiders manage it?

If you contrast this with PVP: every new BG is quite a different experience. There are infinite
number of strategies and permutations depending on your own abilities and those of the
teams. You can try something new every game and it feels great when you discover a new
trick that really works.
Yet, pvp is really an afterthought for Blizzard despite the fact it is competitive with PVE based
on subscriber stats.

Also, I really can't understand the lack of importance Blizzard place on questing. No one ever
mentions this, but no one ever actually started wow at endgame content. Most of us had to
level up for literally months, at least, pre-cata. We started by going out in the world, questing
and world pvp. Yet it seems that the world, beautiful as it is, is essentially now just an introduction
to pve content I don't want to do. Why isn't it an end in itself?

You may say: OK, so don't pve and shut up. Which I'd be very happy to do. But, unfortunately at
the moment you can't do world pvp without pve gear. The best pvp is actually world pvp, difficult
as it is to get a world raid going. There is no better experience for a pvper than trying to kill garrosh
in uninstanced Ogrimmar with fifty horde trying to stop us. So, you have no real choice if you want
to do that than grind through raids.

Look to most of the heroic content, and most bosses are really hard, and the joy when u finally kill a boss u've been progressing on for like 200 wipes+ that feeling is a feeling u'll never forget

[Xargoth6634]

Beats sitting in the same 6 arena rooms over and over again, facing slightly different comps of people?

[Tsuna]

I don't see how you haven't already found the answer yourself. You identified questing as an introduction to pve content, which it is. You also identified your admiration for the variations and complexities of a pvp experience on a game by game basis, this is certainly the case. And you point out that the importance of community has the power to significantly change how one perceives an experience.

So you pretty much built the answer already.

PVE (I'd count everything Normal mode and up) raids are not as fundamentally different from your pvp as you think. Every raid IS different in spite of the dedication to a detailed and occasionally complex strategy because of differences in luck, differences in player decision making at the time, differences in gear from prior weeks, differences in people/characters brought to the raid. Raiders at the high end relish the success achieved by extending their expertise one step further every single boss they kill. Beating speed records, pushing the limits of dps, and most importantly of all sharing the experience with as upwards of 24 other individual like minded gamers at the same time. The communal nature of World of Warcraft's PVE truly is the best of all MMO experiences because it is built upon years and years of cooperation between players. While some guilds certainly have lasted longer than others because people change more than the games, some guilds have existed together since Classic and the experiences of being a guild and raiding together have shaped memories that are important to their very sense of self.

Honestly, it's the same as the pursuit of the highest levels of PVP, be it going for gladiator rank, or the illustrious and coveted seat of Grand Marshall/High Warlord from classic. These actions are all repetitive, grindy by their very nature because ALL of WoW is a psychological trap of perceived gains in power, but the fact that they are shared experiences that consistently fill us with a sense of accomplishment for constantly improving at our skills they are cherished.

I don't pvp since I need to commit what little time I have to gaming towards being a thoughtful raid leader that plans out our next heroic strategy, but I can see where people of all walks of gaming find their own joy. After all, it's really not all that different for all of us.

[Deleted]

If you contrast this with PVP: every new BG is quite a different experience. There are infinite
number of strategies and permutations depending on your own abilities and those of the
teams. You can try something new every game and it feels great when you discover a new
trick that really works.

GZ, you just described progress raiding, while not infinite, fights are designed to be able to be executed in lots of different ways.
Does majority follow guides, sure do, but doesnt change the fact that majority of guilds does not have the exact setup, nor strenght and weaknesses of that setup.

For tiers that go on this long ? Yeh, i quit / level alts / play other games.

- - - Updated - - -

Look to most of the heroic content, and most bosses are really hard, and the joy when u finally kill a boss u've been progressing on for like 200 wipes+ that feeling is a feeling u'll never forget

Joy ? After 300+ wipes on blackfuse hc the only feeling i had was relief, relief that it was fucking dead. No joy, no happiness, just a big fucking sigh of relief lol.
The 2nd kill however was much more fun xD

[Ham on Rye]

This is going to be a controversial post, but I have a confession to make:

I hate pve.

I mean, I really hate it.

I don't understand why any one does it repeatedly.

Normal experience in an LFR raid is this:

1) Massive amounts of waiting around for tanks/healers.
2) No tactics mentioned, or if they are they are communicated far too quickly.
3) Actual fights often devolve into some kind of demented game of twister,
"stand in the red stuff", "jump in the blue stuff, "move in and out of the green
stuff.
4) Group wipes on anything other than tank-and-spank.
5) Post-menstrual healer (and I'm not talking about women here mainly) blames
poor dps. Or the tank. Or any one but the post-menstrual healer.
6) Some complete bastard wips out recount.
7) Two things then happen as a result i) tank's feelings are hurt and he quits,
more waiting ii) dps start focusing on their rotation and ignore tactics altogether
so the recount nazi doesn't pick on them, group wipes again.

OK, so as I'm sure the pve'rs will say, LFR sucks, which it does, massively. Join a
good guild.

Now, I can appreciate a good guild with a great raid leader would make for a more
positive experience. But, that's like saying working in a bank is great if your co-workers
are fun people. However, you do it, as the content becomes familiar through repetition
it becomes a chore, as does anything. There is no possibility of deviation from your
core tactics/rotation, and these things take hours.

I usually complete new raids at least once. But, I can't understand how any one can do the
same content again and again and again till autumn. Indeed, many don't, judging by
the numbers that dropped off in dragon soul. Seriously, how do you raiders manage it?

If you contrast this with PVP: every new BG is quite a different experience. There are infinite
number of strategies and permutations depending on your own abilities and those of the
teams. You can try something new every game and it feels great when you discover a new
trick that really works.
Yet, pvp is really an afterthought for Blizzard despite the fact it is competitive with PVE based
on subscriber stats.

Also, I really can't understand the lack of importance Blizzard place on questing. No one ever
mentions this, but no one ever actually started wow at endgame content. Most of us had to
level up for literally months, at least, pre-cata. We started by going out in the world, questing
and world pvp. Yet it seems that the world, beautiful as it is, is essentially now just an introduction
to pve content I don't want to do. Why isn't it an end in itself?

You may say: OK, so don't pve and shut up. Which I'd be very happy to do. But, unfortunately at
the moment you can't do world pvp without pve gear. The best pvp is actually world pvp, difficult
as it is to get a world raid going. There is no better experience for a pvper than trying to kill garrosh
in uninstanced Ogrimmar with fifty horde trying to stop us. So, you have no real choice if you want
to do that than grind through raids.

Don't complain about LFR to justify why PvE is bad. Alterac Valley is more PvE then LFR is.

And coincidentally, I'd also propose that LFR is more PvP than Alterac Valley with all the infighting there is.

[Deleted]

Still actual

This is precisely why OP hates PvE and I hate PvP.
I actually sabotaged "my" team in Silvershard Mines when forced there by Wrathion and I have not a tiniest conscience pang.

[Deleted]

PvP is just as predictable as PvE is.

[Toxigen]

Upper-End PvP and upper-end PvE are entirely different.

Bottom-feeder PvE and bottom-feeder PvP are both predictable and mundane.

[Deleted]

i´m sure it´s been said before but playing with friends is fun

[Deleted]

Raised in a very athletic background, it was both hilarious and very insulting to play against most people who trash talked. They'd crack a range of jokes from "yo mama" to insulting your looks or game. In contrast, I have come to find that trash talking in gaming is rather sad. They typically just call you "noob" or scream "OMFG U SUCK" or profanities. Because of this, PvP does have a boring, sour taste in my mouth.

This so much. It's not like I inherently hate pvp. But the overall community experience is what has driven me away from it. You could say this about pve, which is true in some cases. But it's much easier to avoid here. And pve encompasses much more than just raids.

[The Kao]

This is precisely why OP hates PvE and I hate PvP.

I still find it fascinating how people are not only willing to buy games that they hate genuinely enough to argue day-long with total strangers that make a point of holding up "the other opinion" just for doing so, but also continue to pay and play for years even after recognizing their dislike. Did you ever realise that WoW has both PvE and PvP so that people who don't like one can play the other without having to complain constantly? In that light this thread doesn't even begin to make sense.

[Tedbuckland]

This is going to be a controversial post, but I have a confession to make:

I hate pve.

I mean, I really hate it.

I don't understand why any one does it repeatedly.

Normal experience in an LFR raid is this:

1) Massive amounts of waiting around for tanks/healers.
2) No tactics mentioned, or if they are they are communicated far too quickly.
3) Actual fights often devolve into some kind of demented game of twister,
"stand in the red stuff", "jump in the blue stuff, "move in and out of the green
stuff.
4) Group wipes on anything other than tank-and-spank.
5) Post-menstrual healer (and I'm not talking about women here mainly) blames
poor dps. Or the tank. Or any one but the post-menstrual healer.
6) Some complete bastard wips out recount.
7) Two things then happen as a result i) tank's feelings are hurt and he quits,
more waiting ii) dps start focusing on their rotation and ignore tactics altogether
so the recount nazi doesn't pick on them, group wipes again.

OK, so as I'm sure the pve'rs will say, LFR sucks, which it does, massively. Join a
good guild.

Now, I can appreciate a good guild with a great raid leader would make for a more
positive experience. But, that's like saying working in a bank is great if your co-workers
are fun people. However, you do it, as the content becomes familiar through repetition
it becomes a chore, as does anything. There is no possibility of deviation from your
core tactics/rotation, and these things take hours.

I usually complete new raids at least once. But, I can't understand how any one can do the
same content again and again and again till autumn. Indeed, many don't, judging by
the numbers that dropped off in dragon soul. Seriously, how do you raiders manage it?

If you contrast this with PVP: every new BG is quite a different experience. There are infinite
number of strategies and permutations depending on your own abilities and those of the
teams. You can try something new every game and it feels great when you discover a new
trick that really works.
Yet, pvp is really an afterthought for Blizzard despite the fact it is competitive with PVE based
on subscriber stats.

Also, I really can't understand the lack of importance Blizzard place on questing. No one ever
mentions this, but no one ever actually started wow at endgame content. Most of us had to
level up for literally months, at least, pre-cata. We started by going out in the world, questing
and world pvp. Yet it seems that the world, beautiful as it is, is essentially now just an introduction
to pve content I don't want to do. Why isn't it an end in itself?

You may say: OK, so don't pve and shut up. Which I'd be very happy to do. But, unfortunately at
the moment you can't do world pvp without pve gear. The best pvp is actually world pvp, difficult
as it is to get a world raid going. There is no better experience for a pvper than trying to kill garrosh
in uninstanced Ogrimmar with fifty horde trying to stop us. So, you have no real choice if you want
to do that than grind through raids.

Probably already said but 11 pages of comments to go through. It's like a pve person saying "I hate random bgs, half the time I'm just running to a mark on the map and attacking what's there, no one told me there are certain map icons to prioritize and if we had we could have won the bg but since we lost due to lack of direction I hate pvp, and ya I could join a pvp guild or a premade bg but I don't want to and refuse to have a good pvp experience so just choose to call it bad."

[Bonsaii]

Personally I think PvP is repetitive and boring. Rarely is there a good cohesive team in a random BG, and in Arena's it winds up being "play the OP class or you suck."
Also, the gameplay is pretty crap. It's just tons of CC and knowing when to use your trinket and CD's.

PVE isn't a whole lot better, but I enjoy the people I play with, and I think that heroic fights are a fun challenge.

[soulkeeperx]

"PVE is easy, it's just the same scripted encounter over and over" I don't really buy that, if that were true then guilds would 2 shot every boss, so obviously it's not that cut and dry. Sometimes someone important dies and you don't have a battle rez, so you have to improvise on the fly and call out a replacement

[Captainn]

Personally I think PvP is repetitive and boring. Rarely is there a good cohesive team in a random BG, and in Arena's it winds up being "play the OP class or you suck."
Also, the gameplay is pretty crap. It's just tons of CC and knowing when to use your trinket and CD's.

PVE isn't a whole lot better, but I enjoy the people I play with, and I think that heroic fights are a fun challenge.

Coasted my way to Challenger in 3's with a warrior and a holy paladin and we geared up in 3's. Had no clue what we were doing. Tis a joke.

[Deleted]

After two months of misery, farming the Sun Eater from heroic Mechanar in TBC days it kinda just stuck.

[Nachturnal]

Oh i know the answer! Different strokes for different folks. /thread /10chars #boom #thiswasdumb

Why this thread has so many pages is like.. Dumb founding.

[Anzen]

What do you enjoy about PVE?

I don't get tunnelled by Warriors in PvE.

[Deleted]

Do you mean you hate LFR?

Then sure I can 100% see that, don't tar all of PvE with the same brush though.

We are only a normal raiding guild, and killing Garrosh was one of the most satisfying moments in my gaming times (and I have been gaming around 30 years!),

[Deleted]

I love both