Aborted babies incinerated to heat UK hospitals

[Nelle]

When a human is cremated, there is a lot of heat. No need to let that heat go to waste, so naturally, you make hot water for housing heating... Been doing it in Denmark for MANY years..

Dane here. My daily running route is through a graveyard with a huge crematorium.
Nothing like the smell of napa... uhm burned flesh in the morning!

[Deleted]

Yeah. But those aren't people.

Neither are corpses, they're dead.

[TirielWoW]

Well that is just the thing..did they? my wife had a miscarriage when she was 5 months pregnant. Not in a hospital, but in the toilet. None of us was like.."Oh shit, get that stuff out of there and bury it". It was a pretty sad and sorry affair with a hospital visit afterwards and all. But no intention to bury anything.

Hell..I daresay you wouldn't even get a place on a cemetary in every country. I am not aware that people bury their babies if they get miscarriaged in the 4th, 5th, 8th month. That usually happens if a baby is stillborn and only then, but maybe it differs from country to country.

But...as usual, everybody gets a say in this, except the ones involved.

It's important to remember that not everyone is like you. And yes, you can get a cemetary plot for a miscarried child, no matter what age it is when it dies.

[Deleted]

We won't know more until we see the documentary but I'm betting it's going to be a question of the parents that request the ashes back have their foetuses cremated 'properly' while those that don't get them just incinerated with the 'waste' and now some shit-stirring documentary team has decided to cause some anguish to otherwise oblivious families in the name of ratings.

[TirielWoW]

Neither are corpses, they're dead.

Okay, I don't really understand what you're getting at. We treat the bodies of our dead differently from the way we treat the carcasses of other species. This is part of culture. It's kind of ingrained. Some of the first evidences of human culture involve burial rites (such as putting ochre on bodies, etc). I don't care if crude oil comprises the fossilized remains of animals and plants from millions of years ago. I do care about the bodies of children. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand, but you're being facetious at this point so I'm going to ignore you.

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I honestly don't see any necessity for funeral rites or services for a foetus at that stage.

You don't have to see the necessity for it. It should be an option for grieving parents. One of my friends had a miscarriage at 8 weeks a few years back. She grieved for months for that baby. And don't you dare tell me she didn't have the right to do that. You don't get to make that decision.

We should get over this entire notion of respect for corpses.

I guess we should just throw out the rest of culture, as well, since respect for the dead (or at least treating the corpses of our dead differently from the way we treat animal carcasses and refuse) is kind of a hallmark of humanity in general.

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If there's one thing I'm appalled about it's the emotive term 'babies' being used rather than the more correct 'foetuses', it's not like they're chucking cute little newborns onto the fire at that sort of age they're barely humanoid reptilian looking things with no hope of ever coming to term.

Probably not, but you can call it a fetus and I'm still going to call it a baby, so it's basically a difference of opinion.

[Deleted]

Okay, I don't really understand what you're getting at. We treat the bodies of our dead differently from the way we treat the carcasses of other species. This is part of culture. It's kind of ingrained. Some of the first evidences of human culture involve burial rites (such as putting ochre on bodies, etc). I don't care if crude oil comprises the fossilized remains of animals and plants from millions of years ago. I do care about the bodies of children. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand, but you're being facetious at this point so I'm going to ignore you.

We already burn bodies regardless, waste of resources is wasteful. I think the parents should be given the option to do whatever they want with it but if they don't want it burn it and use it as fuel

[TirielWoW]

We already burn bodies regardless, waste of resources is wasteful. I think the parents should be given the option to do whatever they want with it but if they don't want it burn it and use it as fuel

There is a difference between cremating bodies so that the family members can grieve and using a body for fuel. A huge difference. From the article, at least, it sounds like they were mass-incinerating the bodies, which is not cremation.

[Deleted]

There is a difference between cremating bodies so that the family members can grieve and using a body for fuel. A huge difference. From the article, at least, it sounds like they were mass-incinerating the bodies, which is not cremation.

So by not doing it in the typical manner means that the family can no longer grieve? Who are you to tell people what they can and can't do and what they can and can't grieve.

[Deleted]

This would be okay if the parents gave their consent to incinerate the miscarried fetus.
It's unacceptable that they disregard the parents' wishes. A lot of emotional investment has often been put into a pregnancy. People tend to benefit from seeing and holding their miscarried fetus or stillborn baby. It makes the grieving process better as they get to connect in some way with their child, they accept its dead and come to terms with the harsh reality.

Unwanted pregnancies are obviously a different matter.

[TirielWoW]

Why would that follow from throwing out an irrational and impractical aspect of culture? The ability to have culture is highly valuable, along with certain aspects. That doesn't make every piece of a particular culture intrinsically valuable. Furthermore, animals don't burn their dead either, so we'd still be different if for some inane reason you think it's important to be anticonformist in respect to other animals the same way some 16 year old mallgoth is anticonformist in respect to all those mainstream posers.

You know, it would just kind of be throwing out hundreds of thousands of years of cultural development. I mean, burial rites, along with tool making, are some of the earliest signs of human culture.

[Deleted]

You know, it would just kind of be throwing out hundreds of thousands of years of cultural development. I mean, burial rites, along with tool making, are some of the earliest signs of human culture.

In a spiritual society yes, current society and culture is a lot less spiritual than that of early man.

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Appeal to tradition

Who the fuck cares?

But muh traditions and muh fetus.

[Lolvanish]

I've actually never thought about what they do with the aborted fetuses. Not a bad idea.

[TirielWoW]

So by not doing it in the typical manner means that the family can no longer grieve? Who are you to tell people what they can and can't do and what they can and can't grieve.

*tilts head to one side*

You really are being dense, and I'm very sure it's deliberate. What they did wasn't cremation. In cremation, bodies are incinerated individually so the family actually gets the ashes of their loved one. In a mass-incineration, everything is mixed together, and there is no way to tell which ashes are which, meaning that the family might only get some of their loved one's remains, or very well might not get any of them at all. They might just get a pile of ashes of trash, since they're all being incinerated together. Which might not mean a lot to you, but for most people is a big deal. In fact, cremating more than one body at a time (as opposed to incinerating trash) is actually illegal in the US.

Anyway, if you're still confused, there's nothing I can do to solve that, because I'm 99% sure your'e being deliberately obtuse at this point.

[Deleted]

It was clearly stated in the article that the patients who produced the fetus were not being consulted.

God almighty.
That must be a horrible job...

"What does your mum do?"
"Mine's a doctor"
"Mine's a chef"
"Mine throws unborn babies in an incinerator"

[TirielWoW]

Appeal to tradition

Who the fuck cares?

Well, you obviously don't. But you also don't represent the entire world, much less the US or UK.

In a spiritual society yes, current society and culture is a lot less spiritual than that of early man.

That just shows how ignorant you are of your own culture, tbh. Many, many people are unusually "spiritual" (since that is the term, however incorrect, you used) about the dead.

[Deleted]

*tilts head to one side*

You really are being dense, and I'm very sure it's deliberate. What they did wasn't cremation. In cremation, bodies are incinerated individually so the family actually gets the ashes of their loved one. In a mass-incineration, everything is mixed together, and there is no way to tell which ashes are which, meaning that the family might only get some of their loved one's remains, or very well might not get any of them at all. They might just get a pile of ashes of trash, since they're all being incinerated together. Which might not mean a lot to you, but for most people is a big deal. In fact, cremating more than one body at a time (as opposed to incinerating trash) is actually illegal in the US.

Anyway, if you're still confused, there's nothing I can do to solve that, because I'm 99% sure your'e being deliberately obtuse at this point.

Considering the fetus at that point is considered CLINICAL WASTE it is disposing of trash, legally they have to dispose of it in this manner. Don't like it? Sucks to be you.

[Deleted]

That just shows how ignorant you are of your own culture, tbh. Many, many people are unusually "spiritual" (since that is the term, however incorrect, you used) about the dead.

Who are you to dictate what my own culture is?

[TirielWoW]

Considering the fetus at that point is considered CLINICAL WASTE it is disposing of trash, legally they have to dispose of it in this manner. Don't like it? Sucks to be you.

Aborted babies are considered clinical waste, yes. Miscarried babies in general are not. I think you should do some research.

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Who are you to dictate what my own culture is?

Well, you sound Western European/American to me. If you're not, and you're some obscure culture that somehow doesn't value their dead, then I stand corrected, but I have yet to encounter a culture that does not have some kind of special treatment for its dead.

[Deleted]

Aborted babies are considered clinical waste, yes. Miscarried babies in general are not. I think you should do some research.

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Well, you sound Western European/American to me. If you're not, and you're some obscure culture that somehow doesn't value their dead, then I stand corrected, but I have yet to encounter a culture that does not have some kind of special treatment for its dead.

The bodies of thousands of aborted and miscarried babies were incinerated as clinical waste, with some even used to heat hospitals, an investigation has found.

Right from the article. I'll leave you to ponder than for now.

I do not value the dead because a corpse has no value. I do however value the memory of the person in question.

[TirielWoW]

Right from the article. I'll leave you to ponder than for now.

Yes, they were. The article also pointed out that this wasn't supposed to happen, and apparently was so offensive to the main office that they issued an immediate ban. I mean, I don't know how you could miss that the article apparently felt this was REALLY out of bounds and not supposed to happen.