seeking aquarium help

[endersblade]

Before I have to go and register on some random fish site just to get one answer, I figured I'd ask here first.

I've been doing some digging on temperature ranges for fish. My plan is to keep several fire-bellied newts, which need temps around 68-70°F. I want to also keep some fish in the tank. However, I can't find any fish for this temp range. They're either cold water fish (below 65°F usually) or tropical (72°F and up usually).

Now, this is going purely on many Google searches, I haven't actually purchased and tested and fish yet. Anyone have any recommendations? I want to stay away from things like goldfish or other extremely common fish. I've looked at things like needle nose gar, catfish, loaches, and a couple of other more strange looking fish, but most require higher temps than what the newts can tolerate.

[Schuetze]

Before I have to go and register on some random fish site just to get one answer, I figured I'd ask here first.

I've been doing some digging on temperature ranges for fish. My plan is to keep several fire-bellied newts, which need temps around 68-70°F. I want to also keep some fish in the tank. However, I can't find any fish for this temp range. They're either cold water fish (below 65°F usually) or tropical (72°F and up usually).

Now, this is going purely on many Google searches, I haven't actually purchased and tested and fish yet. Anyone have any recommendations? I want to stay away from things like goldfish or other extremely common fish. I've looked at things like needle nose gar, catfish, loaches, and a couple of other more strange looking fish, but most require higher temps than what the newts can tolerate.

First of all, how big is the tank?

This is the most important thing when having an aquarium. Is this your first aquarium as well?

I usually use this website: http://www.aqadvisor.com/

You can add the specs of your tank and then choose the appropriate fish that you can keep inside and it will calculate the amount of fish you could have without overstocking the tank.

[Mnevis]

Most tropical fish would be OK with 70F water. They might not breed or be as happy as they could be in water a few degrees higher, but it's not like it's fatal. I'm pretty sure corydoras (pretty cool looking catfish) wouldn't mind. There are probably some exceptions that absolutely couldn't handle it, and I don't really know exactly which are which. I'd say go to (or call up) a decent aquarium store and ask them for advice. They're the experts.

A gar is probably going to eat your newts, by the way.

eta: this article might be helpful
http://www.aqua-magica.com/money-sav...ater-fish.html

[endersblade]

Most tropical fish would be OK with 70F water. They might not breed or be as happy as they could be in water a few degrees higher, but it's not like it's fatal. I'm pretty sure a pleco (pretty cool looking catfish) wouldn't mind. There are probably some exceptions that absolutely couldn't handle it, and I don't really know exactly which are which. I'd say go to (or call up) a decent aquarium store and ask them for advice. They're the experts.

A gar is probably going to eat your newts, by the way.

Needle nose gar, as the name implies, have fairly small mouths. Nor would they attack a newt, as newts are bigger than they are. They were actually recommended by a store owner lol, one of whom I trust.

I will definitely have a pleco or two. Love those things!

Haven't decided on tank size. Only have a 20 long ATM, but I want a 50+. I'm just trying to plan out what I want to have, then get the supplies around that. Not my first, but will be my most ambitious. I plan on doing live plants, too!

So far, plecos, white cloud mountain minnows and dojo loaches meet the temp requirements. I can bump the tank as high as 70°F but no more. Newts are the priority, and anything higher will stress them.

Anyway, I appreciate the responses! All the info and tips I can get will help!

[Laraven]

With a tank that small I wouldn't put placo in there. They grow fast and are so messy. Def get the 55 gallon.

The most important step of setting up any aquarium is getting it stable. This takes no less then 30 days to cycle the water so the good bacteria can grow. If you try to rush this, you will end up with a mess. Green, cloudy water, dead fish and diseases. The type of tank you want is expensive to set up, but def doable. Just don't rush getting the fish and newts! Get the tank running well first.

I am a hobbyist owner/breeder of Red Belly Piranhas.

My 55 gallon


Adult red belly piranha (6-7")


egg hatching tank

[Mnevis]

This site says a 70 gal tank is the minimum for a needle nose gar, which can grow over a foot in length and is called an aggressive, vicious carnivore, which should be housed only with other aggressive predacious fish of similar size. It specifically says to be careful feeding it, lest it bite the hand that feeds it.

It wouldn't get to be a foot long if it didn't have the tank space, and if it stayed smaller than the 4" or whatever that the newts grow to, you might be fine. But I'd consider them a dangerous companion for the newts.

And yeah, raven's right; plecos can get pretty big too. I edited the other post to say 'corydoras' instead (a different type of catfishy aquarium fish), but you'd already seen 'pleco'.

[Starbrand]

i made that cycling mistake. once i learned my lesson, its hard to deal with an empty tank for a month and trying to explain to house guests that you're cycling the water.They just give you this weird look. I was able to ask a Petsmart employee if i could get 16oz of water from the neon tetra tank once a week. Was free and made the transition easier for the tetras a month later

my only suggestion, add fish SLOWLY.

[endersblade]

Price isn't so much a limiting factor as availability is >< just can't find any decent tanks here.

I would love a 70+, that would rock. No store here carries them though, at least not for reasonable prices. $600 for a 70 is just...silly.

I'm not trying to be rude saying this, but I know how to cycle a tank, get it set up properly, etc. I do like that piranha tank though!

The 20 long I have now is just tetras and simple fish like that. Got them ffrom a friend who moved. I will most likely move them to my bedroom and put the larger tank in its spot once I get it.

This isn't a short term, weekend warrior sort of thing. I've been steadily researching and planning for about a year. Which gravel, filters, lighting, etc to use. I raised newts many moons ago with a quarter of the knowledge I have now. I'm no aquarium expert by any means, but it isn't my first BBQ, so to speak.

Like I mentioned, I have a store owner that I frequently talk to. The guy knows his shit. But j do like getting as much info as I can from as many sources as I can, especially experience and stories.

He also says he will buy any of the fish I get that grow too large for my tank, so I'm not too worried. I'm looking at smaller breeds of things, like plecos, that won't outgrow the tank.

I promise I know what I'm doing lol. And getting advice on what I don't know. I won't half-ass this tank, and I thank you guys for the info!

[Laraven]

Check Craistlist for used tanks. Also, Petco has a weird sale every once in awhile, it's like $1 a gallon sale? So a new 55g is like $55.00, I think they go up to 90g?

Check youtube out for DIY tank vids. I have seen some really nice stuff for pretty cheap. You can use certain Styrofoams and plasters to shape rocks and ledges. There is a special glue and sealant you can use, and it's all readily available at hardware stores.

FYI, seriously tho, anyone who cares about their tanks wouldn't get placo. They get huge (up to 2 feet) and will fuck your tank up. They have to be fed special pellets (they don't live off algae alone.) and shit huge streams of grossness that screw your water up. I had one many years ago, It got to 12 inches in a few months time, and always messed up my plants and rocks as well. Like most aquarists, I hate those things with a passion. But learn on your own.

[lockedout]

I've looked at things like needle nose gar, catfish, loaches, and a couple of other more strange looking fish, but most require higher temps than what the newts can tolerate.

You can add those at the temps listed. Newts however are toxic to some fish.
Oh and they eat fish as well, I think guppies are most common but they will eat them.

[endersblade]

Check Craistlist for used tanks. Also, Petco has a weird sale every once in awhile, it's like $1 a gallon sale? So a new 55g is like $55.00, I think they go up to 90g?

Check youtube out for DIY tank vids. I have seen some really nice stuff for pretty cheap. You can use certain Styrofoams and plasters to shape rocks and ledges. There is a special glue and sealant you can use, and it's all readily available at hardware stores.

FYI, seriously tho, anyone who cares about their tanks wouldn't get placo. They get huge (up to 2 feet) and will fuck your tank up. They have to be fed special pellets (they don't live off algae alone.) and shit huge streams of grossness that screw your water up. I had one many years ago, It got to 12 inches in a few months time, and always messed up my plants and rocks as well. Like most aquarists, I hate those things with a passion. But learn on your own.

The ones I'm looking at cap between 4-6 inches. I forget their names. You're actually the first person I've heard complain about them. I will certainly take all of that into account!

[xylophone]

There are a ton of different plecos. I have a rubberlip pleco in my 20g long, they only get 4-6" long, and I'm pretty sure there's a species or two that stay smaller. As for the temp range, ya the hits you get on google are gonna say cold water fish because that is considered cold water in regards to keeping fish. Though whatever gar you're talking about I've never heard of. There's some options though of tropical fish that can handle the lower temps, iirc some barbs, danios, white cloud minnows. I've also heard of people leaving golden wonder killifish (currently my favorite fish in my tanks) outside in ponds on 40 degree nights, and killifish are generally pretty hardy so who knows, but this is random-guy-on-random-forums levels of reliability so no getting mad at me if they die. You can try it, it's only a ~$5 fish so no biggie if it doesn't work out.

[boyzma]

They're bristle nose plecos. Have had fish for several years. Bristle noses stay small 4 to 6 inches are their max but they are massive poop factories. We just rehomed our female we've had for 2 years...she just turned into this never ending kite string poop machine. She was a bristle nose...in a 40 gallon breeder, and it just got to the point where we'd do a water change and a day or two later the tank was already filthy. We gave her to our local fish guy who was thrilled she was mature...he has an albino high fin male he wants to breed her with so it was a win win situation. I suggest you research research research...gar are aggressive fish no matter how small they are. And 20 gallons isn't really big enough for anything unless you want your typical guppy, tetra type tank.

On a side note the above poster is talking about a common pleco...and yes they can get up to 2 feet long...be sure you know what you're getting. Petsmart type stores usually have a bunch of morons working in them that will sell you anything. AND...those sites that tell you how many fish to put in your tank are bs,,,,they have no idea what size you fish will grow to and who and what they get along with. Stay away from those sites. Find yourself a mom and pop local fish store and be a bug in their ear....that's how you learn.

[xylophone]

They're bristle nose plecos. Have had fish for several years. Bristle noses stay small 4 to 6 inches are their max but they are massive poop factories. We just rehomed our female we've had for 2 years...she just turned into this never ending kite string poop machine. She was a bristle nose...in a 40 gallon breeder, and it just got to the point where we'd do a water change and a day or two later the tank was already filthy. We gave her to our local fish guy who was thrilled she was mature...he has an albino high fin male he wants to breed her with so it was a win win situation. I suggest you research research research...gar are aggressive fish no matter how small they are. And 20 gallons isn't really big enough for anything unless you want your typical guppy, tetra type tank.

On a side note the above poster is talking about a common pleco...and yes they can get up to 2 feet long...be sure you know what you're getting. Petsmart type stores usually have a bunch of morons working in them that will sell you anything. AND...those sites that tell you how many fish to put in your tank are bs,,,,they have no idea what size you fish will grow to and who and what they get along with. Stay away from those sites. Find yourself a mom and pop local fish store and be a bug in their ear....that's how you learn.

My pleco ain't got nothing on the two platies I have. They are literally shitting up my tank. I vacuum up all the crap off my HC carpet and 6 hours later it is already covered in fish poop. And surprise surprise, One of them was pregnant from the fish store and is now dropping fry 2 months later. I saved most of them and moved them to my shrimp tank for now, but after second though I think I'm gonna fatten em up a little and use em as feeders for Alfred the killifish.

[endersblade]

I was eyeballing one of these suckers:

Zebra Pleco

As well as this fella:

Gypsy King Tiger

And I REALLY love this thing, even though it's actually a loach and not a pleco:

Reticulated Hillstream Loach

I especially love the Reticulated Hillstream Loach because it fits the temp range I'm looking for. Some of the other fish I like:

Dojo Loach

Needle Nose Gar

White Cloud Mountain Minnow Although not a good idea if I get the gar.

If I do get a gar or two, they will probably be the only fish I keep in there, other than possibly some mass of feeder type fish (like the minnows). I'm not worried about them harming the newts at all. I would ultimately like to get a top, mid, and bottom level fish to liven up the whole aquarium. Again, I'm just tossing around ideas and seeing what you guys (and others) think, nothing is set in stone. Also, I only use the site I'm linking from for reference. I would never buy them from there.

[xylophone]

I've read the best thing for breeding feeders is a pair of convict cichlids. I'm pretty sure if you try to breed them in the tank with the gar he's just going to over eat and scarf them down overnight.

You can always pretend the newt is "just hiding" after the gar eats him though if that'll make you feel better.

[endersblade]

I've read the best thing for breeding feeders is a pair of convict cichlids. I'm pretty sure if you try to breed them in the tank with the gar he's just going to over eat and scarf them down overnight.

You can always pretend the newt is "just hiding" after the gar eats him though if that'll make you feel better.

I'm not trying to breed anything, never said I was.

[xylophone]

I'm not trying to breed anything, never said I was.

You were talking about feeding a needle nosed gar. Breeding your own feeders is optimal since pet store feeders have potential for disease and are usually lacking in nutrients compared to stuff you breed yourself. I don't have any piscivores myself, but I was looking into it like you seem to be and people said that convict cichlids are one of the best options because they are easy to breed and have large batches of fry on a regular basis.

Edit: reread and saw you didn't imply you were putting the minnows in with the gar to feed, but the rest of this post is still relevant if you get a gar.