View Poll Results: Do you think Nostalgia is BS?

Voters
114. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    25 21.93%
  • No

    56 49.12%
  • Both

    28 24.56%
  • Don't get nostalgic over anything.

    5 4.39%
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Rurts View Post
    Having started in very late TBC and mostly played since WotLK, a genuine question: what about TBC was good and is now lost, design-wise? Try to make it simple for me, just 2-3 specifics (if possible). And, do you think that with the changes to some core game systems and to things like e.g. raids, could some of this good design be reinstated?
    -I preferred the old talent system.

    -Classes were less homogenized and actually had niches.

    -Better community. People were less inclined to act like asshats because if they did, they'd run the risk of being blacklisted.

    -More effort put in than current content.

    -Better looking gear (I know most of it was rehashed from vanilla but even rehashing gear/recoloring is better than awful new designs)

  2. #62
    Nostalgia is dangerous, no one should ever refer to nostalgic moments when comparing something (objectively anyway). For a long time i was all nostalgic about BC/WoTlk, so I went on the arena tournaments and was reminded by how ridiculously stupid some abilities/classes were back then (echem Brutal Mages spring to mind), since i joined them my memories or "nostalgia" of bc and wotlk pvp is much more different and a lot less "oh it was perfect!"

    Thats not to say they were bad, I would trade mop/cata pvp for wotlk any day but you have to look at the whole picture and nostalgia triggers the good memories.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Revi View Post
    I'm defensive because you keep repeating that my opinion is invalid because my memories are either distorted or plain missing.
    I call this the old coke/new coke argument. There are lots of folks who say they liked old coke better. This is the equivalent of telling them its just nostalgia.

    tbc/classic were completely different games in many respects. its quite interesting to see how personal some folks get in order to say you cannot have liked them better.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, John Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Agatha Christie, Steven Erikson & Ian Esslemont, Stephen R Donaldon, and recently Jack L Chalker.

  4. #64
    Herald of the Titans Revi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    2,929
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    The truth I am referring to is that the environment in the early game is not entirely down to the game itself.
    The truth is that the community played a large part, and so anyone who whines about how it was destroyed by blizzard is quite simply an idiot.
    The design of a game can break a community, but it will never make it on its own.
    That is a fact.
    I don't think anyone is saying that the community didn't have anything to do with it. On the contrary, most people I see say the community was the best part of vanilla/tbc.
    Which is why i don't understand what you meant by "Nostalgia isn't an excuse, but a very valid criticism against people who are unwilling to accept the truth." That "truth" is the exact thing people call nostalgic.

    But just because the community played a big part, doesn't mean blizzard didn't change it. vanilla/tbc was to current game as real life is to the internet. In first (early game/real life), you are held accountable for your actions, and misbehavior is punished by people not wanting to help/cooperate with you. In the latter (current game/the internet) you don't depends on anyone else, and you're anonymous, so misbehavior has no lasting consequences, no social impact.

    As you said yourself, the design of a game can break a community, and that's exactly what happened. So when people say they personally preferred early wow, why is "nostalgia" a valid criticism? Are you wrong to prefer a better community?

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by dokilar View Post
    we ran kara more times than i care to remember, and id say about half the time we did it, no one needed ANYTHING, we did it to have fun. as a small guild we didnt get to experience a lot of the 25 man content so the heroic 5 mans proved to be challenging enough to keep all of us busy well into 3/4's of the expansions life cycle. a majority of us did get to experience SSC and TK later on in the expansion as pve guilds gearing their alts would sometimes bring us a long if they were short. this sated our more pve oriented members.
    This is similar to my experience. To this day the decision to make wotlk heroics aoe-runs without aggro issues, etc., from day one (I mean pre-3.1) was, in my opinion, bad business in terms of pretty much destroying content longevity. All that work they did for 12? new instances, and they became, for the most part, laughable content almost immediately.

    To most players even able to do heroics in BC (esp. with revered keys), they remained on-your-toes content until very late or the end (though kara badge introduction really reduced participation in them), though I realize now with it being 5 years gone, everyone (TBC HEROES that now appear on tbc threads) was in t6 and everyone ran h mgt with their eyes closed pulling the entire instance and everyone cleared all 15/16 lockouts daily, etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    I have old games I play all the time, the only reason WoW players pathetically attempt to disregard arguments with nostalgia claims is because we cant measure the true amount of people who would play classic servers for long enough.
    Also blizzard has engaged in a fair amount of player-base selection/deselection - anyone that attached to the older game-states/tuning/design philosophy etc vs. more recent versions has, at this point, simply left.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, John Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Agatha Christie, Steven Erikson & Ian Esslemont, Stephen R Donaldon, and recently Jack L Chalker.

  6. #66
    Immortal Bombkirby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    USA - Boston, MA
    Posts
    6,995
    No. I've gone back and played SO many games from my youth that just seem so less epic than they seemed back then. Most recent example was replaying Sonic Adventure 2. Back when I was a kid it seemed like it had the most epic storyline, characters, tight controls, fun levels ever. Then I played it now and realized there was weird motion capture used in cutscenes which was REALLY creepy looking, the story was sort of insane and hardly made sense, some of the voice acting was not quite believable and some of the levels have a bunch of Bullcrap traps placed in spots you'd never see coming. The game is not as good as I remember it being, but I STILL love it for nostalgia's sake and will trudge through it again.

    I imagine if I boot up WoW (Vanilla) one more time it'll have a similar effect and I'll start noticing the poorly designed quests and mob placement in zones/instances. But I'll still LOVE it because of all the good times it provided me with.

  7. #67
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    6,318
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    Also blizzard has engaged in a fair amount of player-base selection/deselection - anyone that attached to the older game-states/tuning/design philosophy etc vs. more recent versions has, at this point, simply left.
    Whilst I can understand your line of thinking, its kind of unfair to assume that, we've never had a proper test and im doubtful we ever will, the only alternative is private servers that are a taboo subject and massively unreliable for statistics on both sides.

    Until Blizzard gives it a shot the only thing people can do is voice interest, to show support, the only real reason I can think of to oppose this support is the management of resources to an older client, not the usual shite people come out with.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Whilst I can understand your line of thinking, its kind of unfair to assume that, we've never had a proper test and im doubtful we ever will, the only alternative is private servers that are a taboo subject and massively unreliable for statistics on both sides.

    Until Blizzard gives it a shot the only thing people can do is voice interest, to show support, the only real reason I can think of to oppose this support is the management of resources to an older client, not the usual shite people come out with.
    Your response is fair, I don't disagree.

    I do think that activision-blizzard is constitutionally incapable, even if a classic server were decided to be introduced, of simply releasing the game at version x with raids to be released via gating, etc. They are part of a very financially successful company that's entire philosophy is accessibility. You can hear it in Kotick's own words. If blizzard does something, it is sure as hell going to be targeted towards the accessible market. classic wow, in modern terms, is the antithesis of 'accessible.' (no matter comparisons to eq at release, blizzard don't care about that. in today's terms, a game like classic wow would have folks burning the dev's in effigy on forums).

    They would go in there and make it 'accessible' in who knows what ways (tuning, attunements, time-to-level, gy's, portals, profession trainers, just to start) and in the process destroy much of what people who actually prefer that game state want in the first place, because they would want to get today's players to play them as well - yet the vast bulk of today;s players simply wouldn't, WOULD NOT, put the time in to even get from 1-60, much less clear razorgore (or hell, even attune FOR ubrs, much less attune for bwl), etc. many would just walk away after a few gy runs from thorium point for Lbrs/brd. Most would not know what a marked pull was or why they kept dying when they just went in and dps/aoe'd their first pull in brd. THAT is the market blizzard designs and makes the bulk of things for. that is who they would 'accessibilize' older game-state servers for. honestly I would think it would be an opportunity for blizzard to sell instant-60s, since they are now actively selling instant max-level toons. [I know, I know, it 'doesn't impact gameplay.']

    Then you get to pvp - well that old honor system wasn't very accessible, and classic AV (1 of the 2 most-posted requests for game changes I ahve seen for years) certainly isn't accessible in terms of completion, nor wsg, for that matter...and queue anywhere sure is convenient, ....
    Last edited by Deficineiron; 2014-03-26 at 02:33 AM.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, John Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Agatha Christie, Steven Erikson & Ian Esslemont, Stephen R Donaldon, and recently Jack L Chalker.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombkirby View Post
    No. I've gone back and played SO many games from my youth that just seem so less epic than they seemed back then. Most recent example was replaying Sonic Adventure 2. Back when I was a kid it seemed like it had the most epic storyline, characters, tight controls, fun levels ever. Then I played it now and realized there was weird motion capture used in cutscenes which was REALLY creepy looking, the story was sort of insane and hardly made sense, some of the voice acting was not quite believable and some of the levels have a bunch of Bullcrap traps placed in spots you'd never see coming. The game is not as good as I remember it being, but I STILL love it for nostalgia's sake and will trudge through it again.

    I imagine if I boot up WoW (Vanilla) one more time it'll have a similar effect and I'll start noticing the poorly designed quests and mob placement in zones/instances. But I'll still LOVE it because of all the good times it provided me with.
    Comparing vanilla WoW to MOP is like comparing Mozart to Justin Bieber. They are different games.

  10. #70
    I kind of think it is BS. I started in BC, and still get goosebumps every time I enter Outland. I was a teenager back then.
    Now that I am an adult, I can't help but think that BC was a fragment of the past; a simple happy memory. That WOW is not coming back. I am not saying that WOW is worse than it was in BC, but it is different.

    <3 Kuragalolz for the signature and avatar

  11. #71
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Australia! G-day Mate!... (We don't really speak like that)
    Posts
    5,679
    Quote Originally Posted by Meillquei View Post
    I kind of think it is BS. I started in BC, and still get goosebumps every time I enter Outland.
    ... I dread the thought of going through there. So much so I have like 6 players stuck at 58 because I can't stand how dated it all feels.
    Angels and Airwaves
    Aldmeri Dominion - Imperial - Templar - Laethys - High Elf - Assassin - Frostmourne - Orc - Rogue - Sea of Sorrows - Norn - Thief
    Borderlands 2 - Mechromancer - Battlefield 4 - Engineer - Diablo 3 - Wizard

  12. #72
    Herald of the Titans Kickbuttmario's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Mushroom Kingdom
    Posts
    2,955
    Well no idea on how this turned into a thread about which expansion was the best but okay. All I was trying to say was that after realizing my feelings of nostalgia, I kinda hated it. Actually, I despised it. Nostalgia is nice for feelings sake but holy crap does it mess up your mentality towards the negatives of the game.

    There are positives and negatives to everything. Honestly, we can argue to no end about which expansion was the best, but Blizzard did what they did and made their game, and its up to us to play it or not. So there.

    Anyways, as for the topic; honestly its hard enough for me to go back to Grizzly Hills. I don't think I can handle that place ever again. I can't stand the thought of Zul'Drak now.
    I am KickButtMario. I kick butt because I am Mario. The coolest, longest, living, protagonist out there in the video game industry.

    Currently playing WoW, Guild Wars 2 and Wildstar.

  13. #73
    Don't understand the question in the poll really.

    Do you think Nostalgia is BS?

    So people with nostalgia say nothing but BS? Or is Nostalgia bullshit and people who "think back about their past experiences" are actually thinking on past experience and speak from that pov?

    So which is it?
    ---------------
    That said, I think that there is some part nostalgia in play. There probably always is. But if you went to a private server (like I did) and actually re-experienced what it was like in Vanilla/TBC - I can tell you with a straight face that I like Vanilla/TBC more.

    What I don't like:
    1. bugs
    2. class imbalances
    3. classes being pigeonholed
    4. stupid talents (not that I like the talents we have now, but I like the trees better then 5 choices, sad thing was we got stupid talent choices in Vanilla etc)
    5. Insane lag (remember that youtube video where some guy was walking around in Elwynn, lagged and then poof was in the gap in IF? (ofcourse it was exaggerated))
    6. Annoying quests where you were told to go to one area and then that was the wrong area
    7. Paladin blessings of 5 min. Mages being food dispencers. Warlocks needing to farm shards etc.

    Those things I do not accept anymore. I truly with all my heart hated that even then. So what was good about it (for me)?

    1. way way more immersion (this is also what I love most about Vanilla and TBC and is something from where my loyalty to a game will grow)
    2. a little more challenge during leveling
    3. 5 man quests (I dislike scenarios)
    4. paladin class quest (charger)
    5. content remained valid during the entire expansion
    6. PvP was done with PvE raidgear (I loved PvPing in Vanilla just because I did not have to collect yet another set)
    7. long dungeons
    8. no heroic content (even though I have been a heroic raider since it was introduced, I love the 1 difficulty a lot more)
    9. self policing server - for us this worked perfectly (combined with the fact that names could not be changed)

  14. #74
    What you experienced was not nostalgia. Nostalgia is pleasure and sadness that is caused by remembering something from the past and wishing that you could experience it again. If you're remembering something and thinking "man, I remember this, but it was crap" then that's just a memory.

    Nostalgia is a pretty common phenomenon in real life as well, so not sure why it would be BS. The feeling of nostalgia doesn't imply that things were perfect, just that you personally miss them and wish they were back. That's all.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by emni View Post
    What you experienced was not nostalgia. Nostalgia is pleasure and sadness that is caused by remembering something from the past and wishing that you could experience it again. If you're remembering something and thinking "man, I remember this, but it was crap" then that's just a memory.

    Nostalgia is a pretty common phenomenon in real life as well, so not sure why it would be BS. The feeling of nostalgia doesn't imply that things were perfect, just that you personally miss them and wish they were back. That's all.
    WoW thank you for this post.

    It is exactly so isn't it? People here on this forum have had huge "battles" in arguing over nostalgia. The thing you say makes perfect sense really.

    1. If you are saying you want X back because it was so good for XYZ reasons, you are blamed for nostalgia
    2. If you are saying you dislike X because it was so bad and an awful experience, you are celebrated for your sense of realism

    But both things draw on memories. And I dare say that if you played during Vanilla (and did not quit during it, or atleast not very long) you found certain aspects of that game to be pretty damn good. Why else would you stay around? Since the game itself changed so much, you cannot expect EVERYONE to just love all changes. The more the game changes away from version X of WoW the more complaints you are going to notice about the past being better (or worse).

    Is that nostalgia? Truly?

    You know what I am nostalgic about? Being a GM of my guild that I just started. I used to think that those times were the times I had superb players. But taking off my nostalgic glasses, I can't but say that the people I played with sucked donkey dick including myself. But we did have a lot of fun. More fun then later on? I don't know for sure. But I do know that since my guild was new and everything I needed to do as GM were new to me too, and the success we had as a guild were pretty awesome, I think that those experiences tinted my glasses somewhat extra.

    But certain features we did or did not have stand apart from that.

  16. #76
    I love nostalgia but it is BS, you can really get yourself down as it is pretty much impossible to go back to the 'good old days' whatever it applies to, not just WoW.

    Plus there is that tendency to forget the bad bits.
    Last edited by Beasty; 2014-03-26 at 09:21 AM.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Beasty View Post
    Plus there is that tendency to forget the bad bits.
    In some cases, the bad bits lend themselves to making the good parts that much better.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  18. #78
    Herald of the Titans Kickbuttmario's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Mushroom Kingdom
    Posts
    2,955
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Don't understand the question in the poll really.

    Do you think Nostalgia is BS?

    So people with nostalgia say nothing but BS? Or is Nostalgia bullshit and people who "think back about their past experiences" are actually thinking on past experience and speak from that pov?

    So which is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by emni View Post
    What you experienced was not nostalgia. Nostalgia is pleasure and sadness that is caused by remembering something from the past and wishing that you could experience it again. If you're remembering something and thinking "man, I remember this, but it was crap" then that's just a memory.

    Nostalgia is a pretty common phenomenon in real life as well, so not sure why it would be BS. The feeling of nostalgia doesn't imply that things were perfect, just that you personally miss them and wish they were back. That's all.
    Okay so I will clarify. For you, Vaelorian, it is neither. It is the feeling of nostalgia that I am calling BS. For you, Emni, it was nostalgia. I was running around the zone for a long time and wanting to experience it again, but not in the times when I was a teenager, but as an adult.
    I am KickButtMario. I kick butt because I am Mario. The coolest, longest, living, protagonist out there in the video game industry.

    Currently playing WoW, Guild Wars 2 and Wildstar.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Kickbuttmario View Post
    SNIP....

    What are your thoughts on this? Do you think Nostalgia is awesome or do you think it sucks like me.
    Not always.

    Nostalgia can be OK in small quantities but blizzard creating an entire expansion so they can relive some nostalgic days of past so called glories.

    Yea, I consider that BS.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •