1. #381
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinner981 View Post
    The only 'viable' conclusion is "Once a human, always a human", as that is the only conclusion that has no arbitrary breakpoints.
    No. This is absolutely nonsense.

    Current abortion law is largely based on medical definitions. In particular, what defines a human being as a living person. Specifically, brain activity. Prior to about 21 weeks, there is no measurable brain activity in a fetus that is sustained in such a way as to meet the definition for being alive. If they were separated from the mother, they would be considered dead, taken to the morgue, and processed. We have firm, clear lines drawn for precisely when a human ceases to be a legal person; when they have died. This extends even to brain-death, where the body may still be on life support, but the individual is ruled to be deceased due to the complete lack of brain activity.

    Since we have clearly defined rules for when a person can cease to be a living human being, with all the rights thereof, it stands to reason we also need rules for when they become a living human being. And those are what create restrictions on abortions.

    So no. People are demonstrably not "always a person forevermore".

    Plus, you included your own error in your own phrase, with the word "once". You yourself admit that there is a point where a human being comes into being. You haven't given any rational justification for why that point is conception. It's already defined under the law, and again, that's what restricts abortions already. A 12 week old fetus has not become a human person. It isn't at that "once a human" stage. There is no inconsistency under the law, but there's a ream of it in your arguments.

  2. #382
    I tried to murder myself once. Clearly I should be in jail for attempted murder!
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  3. #383
    Herald of the Titans Packers01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyewitness View Post
    i wonder how messed up you are in life . if you are looking at sex as just an act of reproduction you are widely mistaken. That was the most ... idiotic thing i have ever red on MMO-Champion
    It's sad when you have to hope people are trolling.
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  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Sauronxyz View Post
    You'd have to be a murderer to know if I'd make them disgusted. I was right all along.
    By that logic I am a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew, a Mormon, a Scientologist, a member of the Westboro baptist church, a Nazi, a homophobe, a sexist, a white supremacist, an ultra-liberal, an ultra-conservative and the goddamn Batman to list a few things.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by spinner981 View Post
    If she didn't intend to have a child, then she shouldn't have had sex, period. If you 100% don't want a child, then you should have 0% sex. If you are ok with only 99% not wanting a child, then use a condom and take that 1% chance. But the reason she is pregnant is because of her actions the vast majority of the time.
    That's probably the most retarded thing I've read in a very long time.

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    All in the name of Jesus and Bible, eh?
    It doesn't even have to be in the name of a religious book. You don't recall hardcore environmentalists burning SUVs?

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  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Drutt View Post
    She's simply regurgitating what her parents believe.

    12 year olds don't have reasoned opinions about complicated matters like abortion, they simply repeat what their parents think.
    Abortion isn't exactly complicated. You either believe it's a living person at conception, or you somehow don't to justify it.

  8. #388
    The Lightbringer Speaknoevil's Avatar
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    There are so many weird attitudes about sex in this thread.

    Explain foreplay, and any other form of non vaginal sex to me... I'd list all the forms that don't lead to offspring but that might be crossing some guideline(which only exists in the first place because of an overarching negative societal opinion of sex.) Yes, very weird indeed.
    ----
    Oh look what is, someone portraying something based on feelings rather than fact, "Or you somehow don't to justify it." I will state this again, none of the markers or causes for sentience exist in a fetus until about two thirds of the way through pregnancy. You cannot argue inherent worth without sentience, because you lack any form of quantifiable basis. Sentience is all we have to go on, it is the essence of our existence; When something is not, what objective value can it possibly possess?
    Last edited by Speaknoevil; 2014-03-29 at 05:27 AM.

  9. #389
    Warchief Jakexe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    Abortion isn't exactly complicated. You either believe it's a living person at conception, or you somehow don't to justify it.
    Abortion isn't exactly complicated. You either understand the science behind the legal definition or you somehow use a 2000 yr old book to justify you why you're right.
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  10. #390
    Ugh, that was hard to watch. Poor little girl was dripping with her parents' hatred of abortion. Creationist too, big surprise there. I might be a little impressed if her parents were pro abortion and she was speaking her own words and research. Shame on her parents for burdening their child with something like this, and using her as a pawn to get their message across. She may grow up and have an abortion herself someday. Of course she should be ready to be disowned by her parents if she ever did. They would probably send her this video as well. I honestly don't see the point of threads like this. Are we supposed to get that anti abortion is so simple that even a child understands it? Are we supposed to be moved by the implied innocence of the child, who is really just parroting her parents? It's really just pathetic is all it is. Being impressed by a child who is very obviously a puppet of her parents is the epitome of confirmation bias.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakexe View Post
    Abortion isn't exactly complicated. You either understand the science behind the legal definition or you somehow use a 2000 yr old book to justify you why you're right.
    Hey now, they don't have to use a book, they could just simply be willfully ignorant of the legal definition while systematically trying to force their morality on others.

  12. #392
    The Lightbringer Speaknoevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghier View Post
    Ugh, that was hard to watch. Poor little girl was dripping with her parents' hatred of abortion. Creationist too, big surprise there. I might be a little impressed if her parents were pro abortion and she was speaking her own words and research. Shame on her parents for burdening their child with something like this, and using her as a pawn to get their message across. She may grow up and have an abortion herself someday. Of course she should be ready to be disowned by her parents if she ever did. They would probably send her this video as well. I honestly don't see the point of threads like this. Are we supposed to get that anti abortion is so simple that even a child understands it? Are we supposed to be moved by the implied innocence of the child, who is really just parroting her parents? It's really just pathetic is all it is. Being impressed by a child who is very obviously a puppet of her parents is the epitome of confirmation bias.
    Don't you feel sorry for the child?

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakexe View Post
    Abortion isn't exactly complicated. You either understand the science behind the legal definition or you somehow use a 2000 yr old book to justify you why you're right.
    How original. And as usual, incorrect on all fronts, including the ridiculous assumption that anyone who disagrees does so because of religion.

  14. #394
    Whether or not you personally agree or disagree with abortions doesn't make a difference. They can't, at this point in time, be illegal. The reason being is that there is no clear way to punish those who break the law and get one.

    If abortions are illegal and a woman has one anyway, do you sentence her to death or life in prison? That's a very counter-productive way to "save good people."

    Notice that I've not once mentioned my own opinion on abortions... just that there's only one way we can currently deal with the topic- to allow them. In a perfect world (cliche), people don't have any need for abortions. Our world isn't that world.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Speaknoevil View Post
    Don't you feel sorry for the child?
    Incidentally the video is 5 years old. She's almost an adult now. I guess a separate question then is why this is getting necroed.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakexe View Post
    Abortion isn't exactly complicated. You either understand the science behind the legal definition or you somehow use a 2000 yr old book to justify you why you're right.
    the science behind it is "people have different opinions" and "people justify doing something because they believe something is less than them"

  17. #397
    Immortal KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zdrasti View Post
    Incidentally the video is 5 years old. She's almost an adult now. I guess a separate question then is why this is getting necroed.
    Because its a child giving their parent's political opinion under the guise of there own. Its a desperate attempt by conservatives to pretend that the vast majority of those who follow their ideology aren't dying of old age.
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  18. #398
    Warchief Jakexe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    How original. And as usual, incorrect on all fronts, including the ridiculous assumption that anyone who disagrees does so because of religion.
    Go ahead and give me your reasoning behind why life begins at conception without using religion.
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  19. #399
    The Lightbringer Speaknoevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    The science behind it is people have different opinions factually based and people justify doing do something because they believe know something is less than them has no inherent value.
    Fixed that for you champ, and I am happy to provide my editing services to anyone, for a pittance paid in poetry.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    the science behind it is "people have different opinions" and "people justify doing something because they believe something is less than them"
    Pretty much. Funny thing is, I would actually have no problem with abortion if men had a legal opt out method too. I just wish people had the sense (and the guts) to admit it is killing a living person. The fact that people have to debate what a person is proves how weak their stance is by default. Not to mention blaming religion for everything, as usual.

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