GM response regarding heroic lockouts

[Artemishowl]

Currently spent the best part of an hour in the instance with an insanely helpful GM. Will update shortly

Oh dear god please update OP. This GM got me heated

[Deleted]

Wall of text incoming so scroll to the bottom for the TL : DR.

So, the helpful GM I mentioned was dealing with one of the other raiders tickets regarding the issue and whispered one of the officers who was online to try and get some more information. That officer asked me to log on so we could create a raid group and allow the GM to enter our lockout to confirm some things.

I logged on and the GM whispered me as well, we talked for a bit. I confirmed with the GM that all the kills on the ID had been heroic and therefore Garrosh HC *should* spawn. The GM was quiet for a long time, guessing he was trying to figure out exactly what was going on. He said he had a senior GM involved who actually ended up getting a service coordinator involved. Wonderful visions of a bunch of GMs all hunched around a computer scratching their heads appeared.

Eventually, they worked out a *likely* cause. Note that this isn't the confirmed cause, it's what they think may have happened.

We started the raid lockout on the 19th February, killing Immerseus HC and so on and so forth. Eventually, after a few weeks of progress on Siegecrafter and Klaxxi, the lockout became a 13/14HC and we could move on to Garrosh HC! Yay...! Not quite. What (they think) happened is that as I was never the raid leader for the lockout in the previous weeks, the game hasn't registered my lockout. So when the group was created at the beginning of this week on the 26th, I was the only one online with the lockout as the few other raiders had gone on to clear Garrosh normal last week. The officer who created the group gave me leader, I extended the 13/14HC save and entered. What I didn't realise at the time is that raid leaders who extend any saves shouldn't get the "hey, you're being saved to a 13/14HC lockout, do you want to enter?" message as it's the raid leaders own ID. It's only when other people join my save that they should get the message. Upon entering, I got the message, clicked accept and thought nothing more of it.

To directly quote the GM regarding that last bit:

If someone who wasn't the leader of a raid goes in and extends the raid, the invites people, but the game then sees that the raid leader has no active lock, so it creates a new one for the group and "updates that new raid to match the old one.

Trouble is, that's still a new raid. In a properly extended raid that shouldn't happen (receiving the message to accept the lockout) because it's the same raid. It brought that up because it was a new raid you were being saved to.

Now, theoretically, that shouldn't make a difference. 13 dead bosses should still suggest the 14th should spawn but the last boss of a heroic raid is spawned when the game realises that the other 13 bosses are dead.

So, the rather dumb copy that the game created (and I stress, this is not intended behaviour) just puts you in a raid where the bosses are already dead and the last one isn't called.

When I clicked accept, the game basically created a new copy of the 13/14HC with all the bosses dead and Garrosh not spawning.

We spoke at length after that about any possible solutions, including spawning Garrosh HC manually and allowing me to wipe to him to try and force the raid ID lockout to tell the game that he should be spawning but that wouldn't work. He would only be able to spawn a Garrosh model, not the Garrosh that the game is expecting. I asked about reverting to the old 13/14HC that got overwritten but once that's gone, it's gone. Resetting our raid lockout to 0/14 for this week so we could actually raid was a no-go due to extremely stringent rules regarding repeat chances at loot.

In the end, after 3 hours of being in the raid and discussions with 2 different GMs, the guild members have agreed to just lose a weeks raiding and we'll start again fresh on Wednesday. There isn't anything else we can do.

TL : DR: We fucked up the raid lockout ID something special Blizzard couldn't do anything about it.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions made by people, some interesting thoughts there. I meant to update this thread last night but I was so tired I had to go sleep.

EDIT.

I hasten to add that we also spoke about preventing this from happening again. While they didn't have an exact answer, they said that the best thing to do is to have the raid leader of the group at the time of the group disbanding after the previous raid create the next group and extend. Agreed that this isn't always possible so try to make it so that people who were present for ALL the kills extend. If you read a previous post, I sat out a couple of kills. It was a combination of several factors that came together to create one fucked up lockout.

[Deleted]

Thank you for this post, my guild ran into the exact same problem.
We extended our raid id to get Klaxxi down on heroic, managed to kill them wednesday and went on towards Garrosh to not find him there and only having Thrall standing in the middle of the room.

We tried 'reset all instances', switch to normal (where Garrosh did appear) and back to Heroic with no Garrosh showing up, leaving the instance for some time etc ... nothing helped (he chose not to show himself on Heroic the next day)

our ticket responses were:

GM ****** here, thanks very much for your time

I'll try to provide as much info as I can on this as sadly it's sadly out of control of the GM team to fix and resolve this particular issue.

I had a look through our reports and it seems we are not aware of any verified issues with Garrosh not being present at, nor have our bug teams verified any problems at this time.

Perhaps consider trying a 'soft-reset' which just means everyone needs to leave the instance for about 15m and then going back in, it should hopefully force the instance to reset the last remaining mobs/bosses.

In this case, since the GM team can't fix the problem - it would be down to the Developers & Quality Control teams to investigate and perhaps get this changed to resolve any issues should they be confirmed.

I've left you the info on submitting this up to them below
_____________________

► Developer & Quality Assurance Bug Reports

» Push ( Escape ) to bring up the in-game menu
» Click ( Help )
» Choose ( Submit Bug )
» Provide as much info as you can on your bug report to give the developers and quality teams enough information to have this bug tested.

• All bugs will be manually reviewed, please encourage friends & guild mates to also report issues they are facing as the more information on a particular issue will help the investigation immensely.

Take care now *******.
_____________________

Thanks very much for your time


Second response:

Greetings ******!

My name is ******* and I will be looking into your missing Garrosh today. I do apologize for the wait time, but I will do my best to help you out!

I'm so sorry to hear about the incident, I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to finally get past the Paragons and find Garrosh did a Vanish on you.

He shouldn't even be able to do that. :/ Cheater.

Anyways, thank you for your update! You may be right, I will add it to our bug report!

I hope this helps! Thank you for you patience and understanding in the matter.


We did extend the raid id a few times with different people doing so as raidleader. We have opted to start over again on next reset with being carefull to make sure its the same raidleader, who has been in for every kill, that will extend the raid id when needed.

All in all it is a bit of a silly situation, one that should be easily solved given the stage the game is at?

Ah well, hope all the feedback helps others avoid the same problem!

[Dasani]

I have seen this issue once or twice before, but it usually gets sorted with enough fiddling around.

It may be worth noting that raid member A can do bosses 1-13 on normal mode the same week, then go into an extended heroic lockout where all bosses were killed on heroic and still kill heroic garrosh just fine. It is also possible for a raid leader to do those same bosses on normal, then extend a heroic lockout. However, if the person seeding the instance has normal kills, even after they extend the lockout, I believe we kind of narrowed it down to that being the most likely cause for this particular problem. You want your raid seeder to have no kills at all for the week, and extend, then seed the instance, and you should be fine and garrosh should appear.

[Sonrisa]

I'm 100% sure that what happened is someone stole your lockout and killed the boss, same for everyone else claming the same thing happened to them. A lot of people would rather take the lockout and not have to reclear the 13 bosses (my guild has done this a few times), although it is very douchy to do it to a guild that is extending IMO. You can even take the HC lockout if they kill Garrosh on normal.

EDIT: to expand on this, I'm positive that the message you clicked accept on said 14/14 instead of 13/14.

[Oggiva]

If that was the case they wouldn't be able to spawn Garrosh on normal, so no.

[Sonrisa]

No where does he state that he was indeed able to spawn him on normal.

[Oggiva]

I've got a few other raiders with open tickets regarding this issue. One GM responded to say that he had personally gone in to the raid to check the lockout and see if Garrosh spawns for him. Lo and behold, he spawns. Upon further questioning, the raider found out that the GM had gone in on normal mode, not heroic. /facepalm.

Characters to fill up space.

[Sonrisa]

Did you even read what you just quoted? It was an incompetent GM who didn't even load into heroic, who knows what ID he even had or what instance he was in. It's never been said that any actual raid member managed to spawn him on normal.

[Oggiva]

My argument was that he spawned on normal, which he clearly did. If you don't want to believe in the facts given there is no point arguing further.

[Spotnick]

Did you make sure to zone in first in the instance after you extended? Had terrible issues when the raid leader was not the first to enter with people getting saved to different IDs before.

[kaib]

He extended his lockout already, and most people in his raid zoned in already and accepted the lockout, only to find, after trash, that garrosh would not spawn, obviously. Can't go back and re-clear after you've extended ur lockout/accepted some1's.

that's not how raid lockouts work. it's 'you have entered an instance with X bosses killed. do you accept to get locked to this instance IF you kill a boss?'. They didn't kill garrosh so no one got saved to anything, everyone still has whatever lockout they had previously.

all in all sounds rather messed up, little bugs hidden around every other corner.

[Khorm]

that's not how raid lockouts work. it's 'you have entered an instance with X bosses killed. do you accept to get locked to this instance IF you kill a boss?'. They didn't kill garrosh so no one got saved to anything, everyone still has whatever lockout they had previously.

all in all sounds rather messed up, little bugs hidden around every other corner.

Well no. They killed bosses on Heroic and the difficulty was set to heroic so when you click accept you are locked to that ID whether or not you get a boss down.

[Willfox]

GM was wrong, are you sure the mage from another server didn't screw you guys over?

- - - Updated - - -

that's not how raid lockouts work. it's 'you have entered an instance with X bosses killed. do you accept to get locked to this instance IF you kill a boss?'. They didn't kill garrosh so no one got saved to anything, everyone still has whatever lockout they had previously.

all in all sounds rather messed up, little bugs hidden around every other corner.

As Khorm said, on heroic, as soon as you click accept, it locks you. It's not like normal where you have to kill a boss first.

[Axelond]

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/731 Look in march we kept a garrosh lockout going for more than a month without reclearing.. That garrosh lockout was also used when extending paragon progress

[Deleted]

This thread is old. Garrosh is dead. Mists of Pandaria is over.

[Darsithis]

This thread is old. Garrosh is dead. Mists of Pandaria is over.

Congrats on your kill!