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  1. #21
    >In the past i also raised my concens about this addon, but of course all the WA fanboys denied any of it and tried to protect their >precious auras, as well as called me a retard. I also use TellMeWhen and i can see some inefficency on that addon too, specially the >addon updates the auras when they are not even visible is a big clusterfuck, but it's nearly not as bad as some issues in Weak >Auras.

    No one denies the contribution Power Auras (you're maintaining it, right?) made to the evolution of WOW UI; anyway there could never be a fair matchup between the two addons because last I checked it isn't even possible for there to be several thousand Power Auras or Tell Me Whens running, much less the level of custom lua. (Funny side note: YES I MAXXED OUT POWER AURAS We are comparing apples to watermelons here.

    I am an extreme outlier that has tested the limits of thousands of auras, what I am discussing will not apply to 99% of users unless they (a) start going hog wild with (b) a large volume of CPU intensive auras on (c) a not so new computer in a (d) intensive environment a la raiding or pvp situations.
    Last edited by Machinelf; 2014-04-05 at 02:30 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    If you must resort to the childish behaviour of calling people fanboys, then you aren't helping your cause.
    You failed to convince people, so then come back and insult them.
    Well done.
    I don't think calling someone "fanboy" is an insult.
    You know why is it hard to convice peoples about something they protect? Because they are fanboys.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Resike View Post
    I don't think calling someone "fanboy" is an insult.
    You know why is it hard to convice peoples about something they protect? Because they are fanboys.
    I have been called a blizzard fanboy regularly based solely on a SINGLE point of view I have for no reason than disagreeing with someone.
    But they choose to ignore, or don't care about my other views where I am not so positive in my support.
    Yes, it is a childish insult, a common kneejerk reaction when someone can't or won't come up with a constructive argument.
    You are throwing a tantrum that your big crusade failed to achieve what it was meant to.

    I won't deny the good that PowerAuras has done in promoting the use of on-screen, and audible alerts to aid awareness.
    But this behaviour is not helping to convince anyone that PowerAuras is better.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Treeston View Post
    .....Gentlemen. Stay civil.
    Please don't make me go all HULK INFRACT on this thread.
    UI & AddOns expert | Interface & Macros moderator - My work

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    I have been called a blizzard fanboy regularly based solely on a SINGLE point of view I have for no reason than disagreeing with someone.
    But they choose to ignore, or don't care about my other views where I am not so positive in my support.
    Yes, it is a childish insult, a common kneejerk reaction when someone can't or won't come up with a constructive argument.
    You are throwing a tantrum that your big crusade failed to achieve what it was meant to.

    I won't deny the good that PowerAuras has done in promoting the use of on-screen, and audible alerts to aid awareness.
    But this behaviour is not helping to convince anyone that PowerAuras is better.
    I dont want to convince people that x addon is better then y, i also don't want to compare addons, or force users to use addons that i promote.
    I just want to alert users about inefficient addons which can cause HUGE fps drops for no reason on a lower end PC, that all.

  6. #26
    WA is the only addon I miss on any game I play...I am not fan of addons in general but I think games should have WA built in the default interface. I think the problem is that I use keybinds for all my spells and I want to look at the middle of the screen instead on my action bars...with WA I can enjoy looking my character performing all the actions while keeping vital information in the middle of the screen.

    I had problem playing swtor. Tracking buffs/debuffs and procs/stacks in the tiny icons on player portrait was not something fun. You could manage to do it but it wasn't fun. I think it depends on the game at the end...action combat games like GW2 and Tera does not need addons and especially WA...but games similar to wow, need to have WA addon style built in..
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Resike View Post
    I dont want to convince people that x addon is better then y, i also don't want to compare addons, or force users to use addons that i promote.
    I just want to alert users about inefficient addons which can cause HUGE fps drops for no reason on a lower end PC, that all.
    Then perhaps highlight specific problems rather than calling people fanboys.
    I saw general comments about inefficiency, but unless I missed something I didn't see specific causes highlighted.
    Real constructive discussion can only improve the experience for us in general and push all the addons forward, but namecalling will not.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Then perhaps highlight specific problems rather than calling people fanboys.
    I saw general comments about inefficiency, but unless I missed something I didn't see specific causes highlighted.
    Real constructive discussion can only improve the experience for us in general and push all the addons forward, but namecalling will not.
    Mapster: Constantly updates something on player CLEU.

    Prat: Constantly updates something on player CLEU.

    TMW: Constantly updates all the groups all the time, despite they're visible or not. (It's not that bad but clearly there are some better ways to do that, like update the group once before it's becomes visible again.)

    WA: Each time Weak Auras triggering an animation it's memory usage peaks at 1%, which indicates it's creating a lot of frames for no reason while the animation is happening. It's ~1% Memory usage per aura, so you can imagine how does it looks like if you have more auras shown.
    Each time you delete an aura, it's frames and onupdate scrips won't get killed so basically it's just like you hided that aura, but still updating everything about it.

    These come off the top of my head.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Resike View Post
    Mapster: Constantly updates something on player CLEU.

    Prat: Constantly updates something on player CLEU.

    TMW: Constantly updates all the groups all the time, despite they're visible or not. (It's not that bad but clearly there are some better ways to do that, like update the group once before it's becomes visible again.)

    WA: Each time Weak Auras triggering an animation it's memory usage peaks at 1%, which indicates it's creating a lot of frames for no reason while the animation is happening. It's ~1% Memory usage per aura, so you can imagine how does it looks like if you have more auras shown.
    Each time you delete an aura, it's frames and onupdate scrips won't get killed so basically it's just like you hided that aura, but still updating everything about it.

    These come off the top of my head.
    See, now that is better.
    Why could we not have had that earlier rather than the alternative approach you took.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  10. #30
    Which is more intensive on the fps/cpu, visual auras or audio? Most of my WA are visual, maybe half a dozen per character so not enough to affect my fps, but if I was to introduce an audio element to them, or go audio only I wonder if this would be a detriment to my gameplay.

  11. #31
    Tossing a texture on screen is extremely light weight. Animating them is a little more demanding because every frame some sort of 'on update' code has to run in order to work out the new position/angle/color. 3D models don't cost much more than an animated texture, but adding several hundred may cause driver-overhead (that's more of a concern in the open world by yourself than in a 25m raid where you're engine-bound anyway). Sound, like textures are also extremely light weight.


    99/100 times the performance drain is going to be the trigger conditions and the aduio event isn't going to matter at all. Your game is already dealing dozens of sounds at any given moment: one or two more isn't going to hurt.

    EDIT:

    Looks like we've got some performance claims to test. I've doubt they'll pan out because the last time i tested there didn't seem to be much to them.

    This thread does raise an interesting question though: what does 500+ auras do to each of these? Inquiring minds want to know.
    Last edited by evn; 2014-04-08 at 04:35 PM. Reason: Fun!
    A new UI series for 5.2Steal my old UILearn about WeakAuras • Nobody to raid with right now so no PVE videos.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Resike View Post
    Prat: Constantly updates something on player CLEU.
    So, I can't locate that in the code. Can you point to which module, or core part, does that in Prat?

  13. #33
    Each time you delete an aura, it's frames and onupdate scrips won't get killed so basically it's just like you hided that aura, but still updating everything about it.
    This seemed like a bug so I looked into it. It isn't true. Let's step through the code - I'm using today's release version for line numbers.

    Loading of individual auras is handled by a a WeakAuras.loadFrame, it subscribes to a few events: zone changes, grouping, and other rare events like leveling up and respecing (see line 2713 of WeakAuras.lua). When one of those events fires it calls scanforlaods() (line 2018) which is a hefty function that pulls things like your raid roll, dungeon difficulty, zone, etc and makes two lists of auras: those that 'should be loaded' and those that 'can be loaded' by calling scanforloads_auras (see line 2097). Skipping a head, anything aura that isn't in the in the 'should be loaded' list has their list of trigger states nullified. Then WeakAuras.UnloadDisplay() gets called which wipes out the events and units from the weakauras event tables it's subscribed to (lines 2264). Once that happens any given aura no longer generates any trigger processinng at all - unless you force a reaload by doing something like /reloadui, disabling then re-enabling the addon, altering it's load conditions, etc. None of this code is magic: it's just iterating items in a table and doing some if/then/else.

    The thing to notice is that only a few frames subscribe to events. Loading auras involves adding a few values into tables maintained by WeakAuras. Those frames then subscribe to particular events and check them to see if the appropriate combination of unit, event, and extra stuff (the result of the trigger function being evaluated) returns true. If so, the value "trigger X is true" gets stored. If the event is an untrigger then 'trigger x is false' gets stored when that evaluates to true. (look at line 1851-1875). Depending on which kind of trigger was fired we get ActivateEvent or EndEvent called. Those function check to see how many more triggers on that aura need to be true in order for it to display: more than one don't show - just tally up the triggered event and wait (line 3776) - otherwise, fire Expand() on the region which handles calling Show(), running actions, and all that nonsense. There's also a region:Collapse() that does the opposite. There are a couple of versions defined around lines 3700 depending on the details of the aura.

    Auras don't register with WoW for events, rather they register with WeakAuras. WeakAuras more-or-less re-creates the WoW event system so that you can avoid the problems being described. There are only half a dozen frames in WeakAuras that actually register for events loadframe (line 2176-2187), swingtimerframe (711), groupframe (577) , cooldownframe (745-747), etc., it handles those events by evaluating code on behalf of the aura's triggers. This much should be obvious from reading the region-type defintions (for example: icon.lua is short and it's easy enough to see how the registrations all funnel through WeakAuras proper).

    If all of the auras are unloaded then those the events that weak auras "worker" frames have subscribed to will never generate more work that a couple of if statements no matter how many auras are defined. Better still, it'll only register for those events if there are loaded events that request them (so it won't subscribe to UNIT_INVENTORY_CHANGED unless you've got an aura that is monitoring items that can be in your inventory) which means you don't generate the "if statement" worth of work unless you've got at least one trigger that has been loaded that required that work to be done. Good load conditions are next to godlyness!

    It is true that frames cannot be destroyed, but that's a limitation of the WoW API. Fortunately, if you delete several hundred auras and really don't want them to waste memory you can just /reloadui and they'll never be created in the first place. It's not such a big deal to have frames in memory but otherwise idle: they're not listening to events so creating a thousand frames doesn't really hurt frame rates except for when auras are forced to reload (leveling up, changing zones, etc).


    If you think there's something serious here, please please be very specific. Better still, point me at a file and some line where you think this problem exists. Hell, be a champ and submit a .patch file! Right now it seems like you just made up this claim and have wasted half an hour of my time. I guess I should have known better, you don't exactly have a sterling reputation for honesty here.

    --

    which indicates it's creating a lot of frames for no reason while the animation is happening.
    Why would you bother guessing when you can just go look and know for sure? I'm sure you've got the knowledge to read code, you can see that this is false. Start around line 3650, and then skip down to 4050 and read over the next ~300 lines in WeakAuras.lua. No such thing is happening.

    Your reputation already precedes you; there's no reason to make it worse, and thanks for wasting my time looking for a bug that doesn't exist.
    Last edited by evn; 2014-04-08 at 09:08 PM. Reason: Ug, citations are hard.
    A new UI series for 5.2Steal my old UILearn about WeakAuras • Nobody to raid with right now so no PVE videos.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by SlippyCheeze View Post
    So, I can't locate that in the code. Can you point to which module, or core part, does that in Prat?
    It's might not be CLEU, it was just a wild guess, but to reprocuse the problem:

    Enable all modules.
    Engage combat with a dummy.
    Try to push down as many key as you can.

    http://i.imgur.com/3lnhiA1.jpg

    This ~1-2% usage is on my beast i7 rig, it much more worst on dual-core CPUs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by evn View Post
    This seemed like a bug so I looked into it. It isn't true. Let's step through the code - I'm using today's release version for line numbers.
    Then how come i can reprodue it any time i want?

    0 Auras, fresh install:
    http://i.imgur.com/5CUNpW3.jpg

    10 Auras, animating:
    http://i.imgur.com/GwKINOQ.jpg

    10 Auras deleted:
    http://i.imgur.com/xFyeV9G.jpg

    As soon as i start moving around this happens:
    http://i.imgur.com/H0LKWtP.jpg

    No conflicting ace addons installed, which could get blamed for the CPU usage.

    Quote Originally Posted by evn View Post
    It is true that frames cannot be destroyed, but that's a limitation of the WoW API.
    Not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by evn View Post
    It's not such a big deal to have frames in memory but otherwise idle.
    They are not idle, their scripts are still running.

    Quote Originally Posted by evn View Post
    They're not listening to events so creating a thousand frames doesn't really hurt frame rates except for when auras are forced to reload.
    Clearly you have never used a lower end computer.
    Guess what not just events can use resources what about the frame scripts?

    Quote Originally Posted by evn View Post
    Why would you bother guessing when you can just go look and know for sure? I'm sure you've got the knowledge to read code, you can see that this is false. Start around line 3650, and then skip down to 4050 and read over the next ~300 lines in WeakAuras.lua. No such thing is happening.

    Your reputation already precedes you; there's no reason to make it worse, and thanks for wasting my time looking for a bug that doesn't exist.
    Because i have better things to do, then reviewing codes that doesn't even belong to me. I gave you the report, i gave you the proof, if you don't belive me i don't care, but dont blame me for not digging deeper into every byte of an addon that i don't even use.

    If you think animating a single frame needs to consusme up to 1% constant memory usage, then you are wrong.

    A table is eligible for garbage collection when there are no more references to it in the system. All you need to do is ensure that if you want to allow a table to be garbage collected, nil out any references to it.
    Which is awesome but WA recreates all of the frames (or just simple don't the lua to clear them), and their scrips after each garbage collection.

    Just because Lua dumps the memory when it's reached a certain level, so you couln't even notice it in longer intervals. Whats basically happening is filling a table with variables, then dumping it over and over again and over. And if you call that efficient and not buggy, and "calling" me a retard again, well up to you.
    Last edited by Resike; 2014-04-09 at 01:21 PM.

  15. #35
    The Patient Kowloon's Avatar
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    If you have lag issues from WeakAuras just Disable WeakAuraOptions once you have the strings set properly and you'll never lag.
    In the company of thieves, liars, beggars and whores
    I'll lay waiting, just waiting for my time to come.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Kowloon View Post
    If you have lag issues from WeakAuras just Disable WeakAuraOptions once you have the strings set properly and you'll never lag.
    The options are load on demand, only loaded if you type /wa to change anything.
    Just reload the UI or relog afterwards.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  17. #37
    In his defense; WAOptions is pretty nasty: it's big and complex and definitely has some issues.
    For example, if you try to import a 'very long' string, WA will simply refuse. That's fine, but it also has this behavoir where the encode string that you cut/paste might be short enough to be 'okay', but once decoded it's longer than whatever it's maximum is. The import will be successful but it breaks the aura list on the side until you /reloadui

    That's not really a problem unless you use "gigantic" auras or huge groups (say 20 items in a group) but it should still be handled more gracefully. I've little doubt there are plenty of issues with the configuration interface for weakauras and would probably recommend disabling the options addon once your auras are configured too 'just to be sure' if you've got a lower-end computer. For the most part it works, but I'm glad it's a separate load-on-demand addon because it's not nearly as nice as the core of the addon.
    A new UI series for 5.2Steal my old UILearn about WeakAuras • Nobody to raid with right now so no PVE videos.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by evn View Post
    In his defense; WAOptions is pretty nasty: it's big and complex and definitely has some issues.
    For example, if you try to import a 'very long' string, WA will simply refuse. That's fine, but it also has this behavoir where the encode string that you cut/paste might be short enough to be 'okay', but once decoded it's longer than whatever it's maximum is. The import will be successful but it breaks the aura list on the side until you /reloadui

    That's not really a problem unless you use "gigantic" auras or huge groups (say 20 items in a group) but it should still be handled more gracefully. I've little doubt there are plenty of issues with the configuration interface for weakauras and would probably recommend disabling the options addon once your auras are configured too 'just to be sure' if you've got a lower-end computer. For the most part it works, but I'm glad it's a separate load-on-demand addon because it's not nearly as nice as the core of the addon.
    At least it would mean you must be sure you want it loaded.
    Though being load on demand it won't do anything until you type /wa.
    It would be good practice anyway to reload the UI or relog once everything is set up, not least so that saved variables are written in the event of a crash.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaerd View Post
    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  19. #39
    It would be good practice anyway to reload the UI or relog once everything is set up, not least so that saved variables are written in the event of a crash.
    I agree completely.
    A new UI series for 5.2Steal my old UILearn about WeakAuras • Nobody to raid with right now so no PVE videos.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Kowloon View Post
    If you have lag issues from WeakAuras just Disable WeakAuraOptions once you have the strings set properly and you'll never lag.
    FWIW, no, this just isn't true. While having ~2500 total auras in WA and about 400 active/loaded and WA Options isn't enabled, I still lagged in combat.
    Yes, disabling WA Options does help some, but only some.

    With regards to performance after a /wa, I'vce noticed sounds don't work. So yeah, once you start getting a serious amount of auras, you'll have to negotiate around this.

    On another note, I noticed the WA options file is full of vestigial variables for old auras that have changed. I guess this is a necessary evil due to auto fill-in. Doesn't really make a difference I guess but I'm thinking a 7 meg WA option file has to be cumbersome.
    Last edited by Machinelf; 2014-04-10 at 08:10 AM.

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