Ret Pally Opener

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Not even. I've actually compared logs and JUST with 5hp pre pull, you do 2-3% damage over a 3 minute fight. The 2-7HP itself is minimal, but since your first global is HoW with the pre-inq and not your 4th global, your trinket procs line up 10000% better with GoAk/AW.
edit: assuming using evil eye + thok's

what fights are 3 minute on progression? I think some of the fastest kills in the world on Iron Jugg now with full BiS raids (or close to it) is down to around 3min, maybe some of the first 2-3 as well. But on longer fight the "trick" is going to make less and less impact (% increase), I'm not saying it isn't a increase in damage. I'm saying IF you chose to do it then be aware that combat locks your gear in place which makes you look bad, ninja pulls can be salvaged even if people lose pots. Having one (or multiple) raiders stuck in "special" gear is not salvageable in a progression state, imagine if you were set to do the engineer on HC Garrosh and you got locked in wrong gear. Now you have to be that guy that says on vent/mumble/teamspeak that you have to wipe or have a backup doing it, even if it's one out of 100 pulls that happens to you that's a wipe credited to you and as far as I'm concerned that's as bad as dropping a desecrated weapon in the wrong spot or running away with malice or kiting Thok through the middle of the raid.
What I'm trying to say is this, do you want to risk a 2m damage done increase with a instant wipe during progression?

[Vegard]

1.1pre pull Inq(or however long your global is)->pre pot->HoW/GoAk/AW->TV->HoW->CS*->HoW->TV*->HoW->CS*->HoW
Replace one of the items marked with a * (when goak + trinkets line up best) with your ES.
The moves with * are the only options for using a global on 4pc
This rotation just continues for the rest of AW/GoAk

Sorry, this is kind of a nooby question regarding the opener, and I may be missing something very obvious, making this question a waste of time. Will I always drop my TVs on 3 HP during the opening sequence? And do I drop the 3HP TV if it means missing a use of HoW? I realize that past the opener, and without AV up, you would just use the HoW, and use TV later, but during the opener things get a little messed up after I sub the ES into one of the CS spots in the sequence. Due to the way it effects the HP curve after I sub out a CS, I have to choose between missing a HoW or delaying the use of TV, potentially resulting in me missing out on a TV entirely. How do you handle this situation exactly?

You may be able to disregard everything that I just wrote above, but it all depends if I am correctly understanding you when you mention that the opener commences "assuming 3HP pre pull". I just need to clarify this line. Does it mean that after you have used Inq at 3HP, you continue to generate HP with the Holy 4 set until you are at 3HP before the pull with Inq up a the same time? If this is the case, then using HoW after CDs are used, to get to 4 HP before you start the sequence would address the concerns that I mentioned above, by allowing the 1 extra HP to help fill the brief gap of HP that is created after the first GCD spent on ES. My apologies if I've communicated my question in a confusing way, as I realize it may be poorly worded.

[Redro]

I usually open with is..... Pre Pot > judg (for speed boost) > CS > Exo > Inq > Wings / Guardian > Hammer > CS > hummer > 12 Stack + 2 Trinket + Weap Enchant + 2set bonus + Synapse Springs + ES..... Which yield good results. Of course i don't have the 4pc holy pvp set, i'm using SW and my gear is not that great. Your thoughts?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Sorry, this is kind of a nooby question regarding the opener, but I've just got to ask it. Will I always drop my TVs on 3 HP during the opening sequence? And do I drop the 3HP TV if it means missing a use of HoW? I realize that past the opener, and without AV up, you would just use the HoW, and use TV later, but during the opener things get a little messed up after I sub the ES into one of the CS spots in the sequence. Due to the way it effects the HP curve after I sub out a CS, I have to choose between missing a HoW or delaying the use of TV, potentially resulting in me missing out on a TV entirely. How do you handle this situation exactly?

You may be able to disregard everything that I just wrote above, but it all depends if I am correctly understanding you when you mention that the opener commences "assuming 3HP pre pull". I just need to clarify this line. Does it mean that after you have used Inq at 3HP, you continue to generate HP with the Holy 4 set until you are at 3HP before the pull with Inq up a the same time? If this is the case, then using HoW after CDs are used, to get to 4 HP before you start the sequence would address the concerns that I mentioned above, by allowing the 1 extra HP to help fill the brief gap of HP that is created after the first GCD spent on ES. My apologies if I've communicated my question in a confusing way, as I realize it may be poorly worded.

Just make sure to spend your holy power, during pull I do Judgement, CS and exorcism before doing inq and popping Winge and guardian, you could pop wings on pull or after first CS/Judge.

[Vandeleth]

Gotcha. Also does anyone have a good WA string to help me trach stacks of Ancient Power? I can't seem to make a good one.

This one is pretty simple, it'll just pop up the Ancient Power icon and keep track of the stacks. First time submitting a WA string so let me know if this doesn't work or you're looking for something different.

dScNbaGlLkBtjXCrIztPBtf7KQ0Ej7wy)q0pvkAyiPFtXqfvdgsnCfCqr5yI0cvOftvy5iEQQLPu65qnvfnzjMUuxg 11rQntvz7kP6Xs6ZkX3HWivQ6Wa)LkDEQQoPionORrv09GKXPKY3usAAkfwPAQd1tIMj(avMss1eykzEaTW2VBoWck WWD0Yymx2dIcwhRVDh1DEQ7Ox0lAQt4fOjM(hyDy1e6wdOOPoXyzn1DOTnut1QvRdl6zrfYrJeDUbbt0BcCzHjAQJh yRnPOV2kRsLQEaCySMYBQEwuHC0irNBqWe16vdD0BoWeqBi6OqPtJz3a4WAuNgZU4b2AtkAuVAOJwpDREaCyxZataT HOJcLEaCy9SOc5OrIo3GGj6(OTwCfeAuTEq7mjWLfMGL3u16an1ZIkKJgj6CdcMONent8bQmLKQjWuY8aAHTF3CGfu GH7OLXyUShefSA91L30nsPQwc

[Smitus]

Sorry, this is kind of a nooby question regarding the opener, and I may be missing something very obvious, making this question a waste of time. Will I always drop my TVs on 3 HP during the opening sequence? And do I drop the 3HP TV if it means missing a use of HoW? I realize that past the opener, and without AV up, you would just use the HoW, and use TV later, but during the opener things get a little messed up after I sub the ES into one of the CS spots in the sequence. Due to the way it effects the HP curve after I sub out a CS, I have to choose between missing a HoW or delaying the use of TV, potentially resulting in me missing out on a TV entirely. How do you handle this situation exactly?

You may be able to disregard everything that I just wrote above, but it all depends if I am correctly understanding you when you mention that the opener commences "assuming 3HP pre pull". I just need to clarify this line. Does it mean that after you have used Inq at 3HP, you continue to generate HP with the Holy 4 set until you are at 3HP before the pull with Inq up a the same time? If this is the case, then using HoW after CDs are used, to get to 4 HP before you start the sequence would address the concerns that I mentioned above, by allowing the 1 extra HP to help fill the brief gap of HP that is created after the first GCD spent on ES. My apologies if I've communicated my question in a confusing way, as I realize it may be poorly worded.

When I said assuming start with 3HP I mean via the holypvp4pc.
If you don't have it than you start with CS>J>Ex>Inq and than proceed as normal.
You won't always drop TV at 3HP. They key to a perfect opener is never missing a HoW. The only way you should miss a HoW is if you get crazy chain 4pc procs. But if this happens your dps will only be higher so I wouldn't complain.
An example:
At 2HP > HoW > TV > HoW > (4pc>CS) > HoW > (4pc>TV>CS) > HoW > (4pc>TV>CS) > etc
I hope this answers the question, I'm typing this ok my phone so I apologize if this post sounds odd

[Vegard]

Thank you, that answers my question perfectly. But I have another short question that stems from the answers you gave me. So I now understand that I should prioritize casting every HoW possible during the opener, unless I get crazy 4pc procs. But does HoW have the same level of priority during AV, past the opening period? Specifically, past the opening period of the fight, should I be using HoW over TV if both are available to use? The only reason I am really unsure is because I know that TV hits a decent bit harder than HoW does past the opening sequence, due to the lack of every CD and Trinket proc being present like it would be at the start of the fight.

[Smitus]

Thank you, that answers my question perfectly. But I have another short question that stems from the answers you gave me. So I now understand that I should prioritize casting every HoW possible during the opener, unless I get crazy 4pc procs. But does HoW have the same level of priority during AV, past the opening period? Specifically, past the opening period of the fight, should I be using HoW over TV if both are available to use? The only reason I am really unsure is because I know that TV hits a decent bit harder than HoW does past the opening sequence, due to the lack of every CD and Trinket proc being present like it would be at the start of the fight.

Yes HoW is always your #1 priority unless you are at 5HP. So if you're at 3 or 4 HP and HoW is available, use it. HoW has a cooldown and TV does not, so there is no advantage to using TV over HoW when both available (unless 5Hp as said earlier).

[Krekko]

Yeah, as Smitus said, so long you're not HP capped and losing out on the HP, utilize HoW > TV. Don't ever waste your HP gains.

[Swampmoose]

I've been doing 4pc holy pre pull for maybe ~10 weeks now, and have been in the wrong gear for pull a total of 0 times in my main raid. As long as people follow the pull timer, there is never an issue. The logs I compared were logs of myself only, so it's a tiny sample size. But the exact results are almost irrelevant, all that matters is that doing the pre pull HP is a quite noticeable dps gain, the gain is not "minimal" as huntingbear said. It's as minimal as not using a flask

I would be interested to see these logs because I find it hard to believe that 3 GCDs without Inquisition up and a slight misalignment with trinket ICDs is anything more than negligible on a fight lasting more than a couple of minutes. Your luck on 4-piece procs would have more of an impact on overall dps than 3 GCDs in a fight of typical duration.

And why are people talking about fail pulls? What types of guilds are you raiding in? 0.o

[SolaronTich]

And why are people talking about fail pulls? What types of guilds are you raiding in? 0.o

Eh, it happens. It's like arguing for using the DPS cloak as a tank. Sure, in a perfect world you would never die so the tank cloak proc is worthless, but fights don't usually go perfectly. There's always a chance someone will hit a button with their elbow or something similar.

Something I've been toying with is starting off with a 2 HP Inq, since it lasts for 20s/HP a 2HP cast is enough to cover our CDs in an opener, and it gives you an extra GCD under trinkets (since they're very likely to trigger off the first few hits). So:

Salv -> Pre-pot -> Judge -> Exo if I'm not at the boss yet, CS if I am -> Inq -> GoAK/AW/HoW -> ES at 12 stacks, or just before trinkets that proc'd on pull fall off.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

On a boss fight that doesn't doesn't require me to move away from my target or what not I pop HA AW and Goak and go to town