1. #1

    When do I stop bulking and start cutting?

    So when I started bulking and working out I was really skinny like 150ish pounds ive been bulking for a bit now and I have gained some weight, Im at about 170 pounds now but I still feel pretty skinny... obviously a lot of the weight I gained was probably fat. So my question is when do I stop bulking and start cutting and how long do I cut for before I start bulking again? I've read to just cut whenever you feel like you've gained enough muscle but I don't want to gain to much fat before I cut.

  2. #2
    This question again. Don't do a traditional 'bulk' or 'cut'. That shit is inoptimal for 95% of people, and you end up only hampering your progress when you go on huge deficits trying to shed off the unnecessary fat you put on when you ate all those calories thinking you'd be forcing your body to convert it all to muscle by stuffing it with that many calories, but your body didn't because that's not how things work.

    The answer to these questions is pretty much always to cut. Cut, as in, run a small caloric deficit. That's all, don't change anything else. If your deficit is small enough, you should continue to lose weight gradually, while also putting on strength and size at a decent rate. That's how cutting should be done. Unless you're very close to your genetic limit, which you clearly aren't, you're doing it wrong if you grow weaker on a cut.

    When you're as lean as you'd like, do what's called a 'clean' bulk. Eat slightly over maintenance. No more than 200-300 calories, and keep doing what you're doing.

    It also depends what your goals are. If you're just aiming for general aesthetics like most average gym-goers, then that's all the more reason to place further emphasis on being lean. Leanness and good posture contribute to an aesthetic physique more than anything.
    Last edited by Velaniz; 2014-03-30 at 08:14 PM.
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  3. #3
    Scarab Lord Hraklea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz
    The answer to these questions is pretty much always to cut. Cut, as in, run a small caloric deficit. That's all, don't change anything else. If your deficit is small enough, you should continue to lose weight gradually, while also putting on strength and size at a decent rate. That's how cutting should be done. Unless you're very close to your genetic limit, which you clearly aren't, you're doing it wrong if you grow weaker on a cut.
    I didn't know that, thanks for the tip.
    What do you call a "small caloric deficit"?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hraklea View Post
    I didn't know that, thanks for the tip.
    What do you call a "small caloric deficit"?
    Small enough that you're consistently losing weight, but not so huge that you won't gain strength. 300-400 is a decent place to start. You could throw in cardio too, and you'd be losing upwards of 0.5kg or so a week. That adds up to a significant amount of fat loss over 2-3 months, and you would be a lot stronger by the time the cut was over. Conventional wisdom among dudebros these days seems to be that it's impossible to put on muscle on a caloric deficit. That's just biologically inaccurate, because surplus calories aren't a requirement for tissue-building; a positive nitrogen balance is. That's something you can achieve by having enough protein in your diet. The only time you won't be able to lose fat while gaining muscle will be when you're close to your genetic limit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    You don't appear to understand how it works...they don't stick it on when the baby is born.

  5. #5
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    Nice advice, Velaniz.

    I always despair a little with the "bulk up then cut" approach, because it simply doesn't work for most people as well as simply building properly in the first place.

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Hraklea's Avatar
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    Once again, thanks for the answer, Velaniz.

  7. #7
    Velaniz - you're spewing out false information.
    Doing it wrong if losing strength on a cut?
    u wot m8?

    It's entirely possible to gain strength on a cut, even for an experienced lifter, but someone squatting 500lb who is now only doing 480lb cause of his cut, isn't doing anything wrong.
    Strength does not equal muscle mass.

    A 'traditional' cut and bulk is the most efficient way to get to your goal. You're focusing on one goal. Not both.
    Running a 'small' deficit.
    Deficit.

    Deficit.

    Your body is going to lose weight. If it's in a deficit, where is it going to get energy to put on muscle?
    It won't (outside your noob gains)


    To answer your question OP - bulk till you aren't happy with your appearance. Only you can decide that.
    1st May 2013-->1st April 2014
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  8. #8
    I like to alternate 3 month high carbohydrate periods with 1 month keto diet periods (during them you somewhat lower intensity), during them cutting happens automatically, even without lowering total calorage.
    And when you return to normal high carb diet your body reacts to carbohydrates really good, you have increased energy and performance, and it helps further muscle gain..

    Don't see a point in "cutting" just for looks, especially when you're far from desired weight.
    Life is short Glory is eternal

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by get big or die mirin View Post
    Velaniz - you're spewing out false information.
    Doing it wrong if losing strength on a cut?
    u wot m8?

    It's entirely possible to gain strength on a cut, even for an experienced lifter, but someone squatting 500lb who is now only doing 480lb cause of his cut, isn't doing anything wrong.
    Strength does not equal muscle mass.
    OP is clearly not near a 500lb squat. At those levels, which are close to the genetic limits of some, losing some strength when you cut is a likelihood. The further you are from your genetic limit, the less that should happen. Unless you're cutting too drastically.

    Quote Originally Posted by get big or die mirin View Post
    A 'traditional' cut and bulk is the most efficient way to get to your goal. You're focusing on one goal. Not both.
    When those goals are anything but mutually exclusive (considering OP's current level), to do it any other way would be utterly silly, and would only detract from OP's progress in the future. In any case, what you're suggesting (a traditional bulk) runs contrary to one of OP's main goals anyway, since you're inevitably going to pile on unnecessary fat.

    Quote Originally Posted by get big or die mirin View Post
    Running a 'small' deficit.
    Deficit.

    Deficit.

    Your body is going to lose weight. If it's in a deficit, where is it going to get energy to put on muscle?
    It won't (outside your noob gains)


    To answer your question OP - bulk till you aren't happy with your appearance. Only you can decide that.
    Your body doesn't need surplus calories to grow muscle. They're really only somewhat conducive, and it's typically only until much later that they become a necessity. Calories used by your body to build muscle are accounted for when you consider whether a person is in a surplus or deficit. So a person in a deficit find the energy to build new muscle from the food he eats, and his own tissue storage within him. The fact that his TDEE exceeds what he consumes is the reason he's in a deficit. Unless you're starving yourself, you should be able to pack on muscle for a good while beyond your noob gains. Obviously this isn't optimal from a muscle mass standpoint, but ultimately, leanness is also a goal in the long run. You'll more than make up for the lost time when you don't have to go on a huge deficit because you thought a traditional 'bulk' was a good idea.
    Last edited by Velaniz; 2014-04-17 at 03:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    In fact, I quite like it and I would consider it an abuse to inflict my child with a foreskin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    You don't appear to understand how it works...they don't stick it on when the baby is born.

  10. #10
    You could try to keep eating at maintenance (important you get your maintenance intake right) and surplus that with cardio.
    FE: your maintenance is 2500kc (where your maintenance is based on normal daily activity (work, lifting, walking to the bus stop, ...), you eat 2500kc but you add extra cardio that you don't calculate into your maintenance...

    Basically instead of cutting on the food, you increase the activity.

    This avoids crash diets, or giving up on diets because you can keep eating what you were eating, unless you were drinking soda and eating junk on a regular basis, if so get your food right first.

    There's plenty of nutrition tips around on the net, allot of contrary visions on bulking and cutting, you need to find something that you can hold on to and works for you.

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