Burst of Speed

[Wrien]

How did this skill make it through the ptr???

A non-CD root and slow cleanse with like 0 cost. THis is by far to overpowered.
I can't see any good arguments for why Burst of Speed should stay like this.

Suggestions:
- give it a CD. Like 5sec+
- give it a cost. 15 energy is like free. 50 energy would make more sense
- remove the root and slow clease. Keep the speed boost.

[Cirayne24]

How did this skill make it through the ptr???

A non-CD root and slow cleanse with like 0 cost. THis is by far to overpowered.
I can't see any good arguments for why Burst of Speed should stay like this.

Suggestions:
- give it a CD. Like 5sec+
- give it a cost. 15 energy is like free. 50 energy would make more sense
- remove the root and slow clease. Keep the speed boost.

It doesn't cleanse roots.

And it's good, but Shadowstep is still better in skilled hands. ShS swap/kick/CC is stronger than clearing slow and running to the target. The slow can just be reapplied.

And this clears slows at a cost, what about the slows that are free like rogue poisons, feral druids, or piercing howl (which isn't free, but AoE and ranged).

[Yvaelle]

Ferals shift, Rets emancipate, Enh shamans emancipate, WW's emancipate, DKs are immune to snares, warriors charge faster than blink (let alone the many classes that dont have blink). One of the central premises of MoP PvP was that only ranged classes can really be snared - and the goal there was to get melee on target whenever a ranged didn't use a gap opener.

Burst of Speed is not only not overpowered, I'd say if anything it's one of the weakest options in that tier - given the current meta.

[Tyrean]

Ferals shift, Rets emancipate, Enh shamans emancipate, WW's emancipate, DKs are immune to snares, warriors charge faster than blink (let alone the many classes that dont have blink). One of the central premises of MoP PvP was that only ranged classes can really be snared - and the goal there was to get melee on target whenever a ranged didn't use a gap opener.

Burst of Speed is not only not overpowered, I'd say if anything it's one of the weakest options in that tier - given the current meta.

I must be playing enhance, WW and DK wrong because I did not know they were immune to snares. Enhance has freedom totem and a root break sprint, but they are on long cds. WW can roll out of a snare, but I think most will save roll to avoid CC. DKs... what do they have that makes them immune to snares? Desecrated ground works on everything but roots/snares. Are you perhaps thinking of the garbage pve talent that no one takes over asphyx?

Honestly, I think burst is fine in the arena meta game because you still have to cover the gap. Step is so much better for instant swaps and z-axis maps. Burst can also be spammed if people are spamming roots on you because the cost is so low. The problem with burst is in the RBG setting when a rogue can just sprint through an entire pack and the only way to stop him is to stun or root him, which mostly he can conveniently ignore with cloak.

[Emophia]

Burst of speed is just another one of those dumb things that blizzard added in MoP that shouldn't be in the game, like gateway, symbiosis, Heart of the wild etc.

It's not really OP, it's just very dumb.

Ferals shift, Rets emancipate, Enh shamans emancipate, WW's emancipate, DKs are immune to snares

You have no idea what you're talking about, enhances only root breaker is on a 1 minute cooldown, the other is a 6 second aoe freedom talent that is also on a 1 min cooldown.

And no decent DK talents Death's Advance, and even if they did they're only immune to snares for 6 seconds every 30 seconds.

Monks can break snares with roll/fsk with the PVP gloves, but their only root breaker is on a 30 second cooldown mandatory talent.

[Illana]

Isn't it being removed in wod anyway

[Phookah]

Burst of speed is just another one of those dumb things that blizzard added in MoP that shouldn't be in the game, like gateway, symbiosis, Heart of the wild etc.

It's not really OP, it's just very dumb.



You have no idea what you're talking about, enhances only root breaker is on a 1 minute cooldown, the other is a 6 second aoe freedom talent that is also on a 1 min cooldown.

And no decent DK talents Death's Advance, and even if they did they're only immune to snares for 6 seconds every 30 seconds.

Monks can break snares with roll/fsk with the PVP gloves, but their only root breaker is on a 30 second cooldown mandatory talent.

How very eloquent of you.
It's a perfectly fine talent given the current state of PvP.
@ Yvaelle Whattttt? Unless you're talking high end arena, BoS is damn near mandatory.

[Terahertz]

Ferals shift, Rets emancipate, Enh shamans emancipate, WW's emancipate, DKs are immune to snares, warriors charge faster than blink (let alone the many classes that dont have blink). One of the central premises of MoP PvP was that only ranged classes can really be snared - and the goal there was to get melee on target whenever a ranged didn't use a gap opener.

Burst of Speed is not only not overpowered, I'd say if anything it's one of the weakest options in that tier - given the current meta.

LOL'd

The only classes out there that are -practically- immune to snares at ferals, rets and shamans. And even then they're limited. Rets emancipate only clears -1- slow/root at a time besides freedom. Enh shamans usually use the glyph of ghost wolf, which makes it so they run at 100% movement speed at all times when in ghost wolf and monks have to use roll/FSK or tigers lust to clear snares, which isn't immunity like rogue. Rogues can -literally- spam burst of speed, move at 80% movement speed, not be slowed at all and still do a lot of pressure because of burst of speed.

[Deleted]

The spell is just retarded and is very easy to keep up all the time without losing any mentionable dps in PvP because of the low cost. The spell shouldn't be in the game, no spell like this should be in the game.

[Prag]

It's one of those abilities that really changes in power depending on the setting.

In a battleground it is quite literally the most overpowered ability in the game.

In arena it seems significantly less powerful and it seems like most of the high rated Rogues I watch on Twitch are using ShS and it looks like they put a lot of planning into its use.

Overall I think it's an incredibly stupid ability.

[Tyrannica]

It's one of those abilities that really changes in power depending on the setting.

In a battleground it is quite literally the most overpowered ability in the game.

In arena it seems significantly less powerful and it seems like most of the high rated Rogues I watch on Twitch are using ShS and it looks like they put a lot of planning into its use.

Overall I think it's an incredibly stupid ability.

oh, i tought subterfuge is? And whenever i check the arsenal i wonder where that rogue army is dominating each bracket.........i guess they are stealthed in the aresenal ratings over 2k? Obviously, since each ability is op they must be a very op class... ;>

Old news, high rated players switched to burst of speed in the arenas when season 15 hit. At least in the EU ladders.

ShS is powerless and outdated compared to burst of speed which got buffed to extremes, of course in duels, where every little ms counts faster abilities like shadow step can be a little bit better. But overall burst of speed is superior.

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LOL'd

The only classes out there that are -practically- immune to snares at ferals, rets and shamans. And even then they're limited. Rets emancipate only clears -1- slow/root at a time besides freedom. Enh shamans usually use the glyph of ghost wolf, which makes it so they run at 100% movement speed at all times when in ghost wolf and monks have to use roll/FSK or tigers lust to clear snares, which isn't immunity like rogue. Rogues can -literally- spam burst of speed, move at 80% movement speed, not be slowed at all and still do a lot of pressure because of burst of speed.

you wanted to say 170% movement speed, right?

I think its an annoying ability if you want to kill a rogue but its a rogue like ability i think its ok for the rogue class to have it. we shouldn't compare tanky classes with a ton of dmg with rogues and throw in random abilities. Its rogue like to get away easily i like that style cause it fits a rogue. wanna have slow stunlock rogue back? not that rogue like and more annoying.

[Yvaelle]

I must be playing enhance, WW and DK wrong because I did not know they were immune to snares. Enhance has freedom totem and a root break sprint, but they are on long cds. WW can roll out of a snare, but I think most will save roll to avoid CC. DKs... what do they have that makes them immune to snares? Desecrated ground works on everything but roots/snares. Are you perhaps thinking of the garbage pve talent that no one takes over asphyx?

Apparently you don't know like half the abilities your class has, so I'll list them out for you:

Enhancement have:
Spirit Walk - 1m cooldown - removes all roots and snares and increases movement speed by 60% for 15 seconds
Windwalk Totem - 1m cooldown - removes all roots and snares and makes you immune to them for 6 seconds (and allies)
Shamanistic Rage - 1m cooldown - removes all magic roots and snares
Glyph of Ghost Wolf - no cooldown - while in ghost wolf you cannot be brought below 100% movement speed

Enhancement shamans shouldn't complain about roots and snares.

Windwalkers have:

Tiger's Lust - 30 second cooldown, removes all roots and snares and increases movement speed by 70% for 6 secondes
Diffuse Magic - 90 second cooldown, removes all magical roots and snares and reflects them back to the caster
Roll / Chi Torpedo - cooldowns and distances vary, but generally spammable gap closers
Flying Serpent Kick - 25 second cooldown - yet another gap closer
Nimble Brew - 2m cooldown - clears roots (amongst other things) and reduces subsequent duration by 60% for 6 seconds
Detox - 8 second cooldown - dispels all poison and disease effects (including poison and disease snares)

DKs have:

Death's Advance - +10% base movement speed, cannot be slowed below 70% movement speed, can use the active to move at 130% and not be slowed below 100%.
Anti-Magic Shell - makes you immune to the application of harmful magical effects including roots and snares


It's particularly funny to me that now people are telling me you can never not take Asphyxiate, because when Asphyxiate came out I felt like the only DK player who thought it would be circumstantially useful (replacing Strangulate), and that either Death's Advance or Chillblains wasn't actually mandatory (as the common wisdom of the time stated) ;p

Honestly, I think burst is fine in the arena meta game because you still have to cover the gap. Step is so much better for instant swaps and z-axis maps. Burst can also be spammed if people are spamming roots on you because the cost is so low. The problem with burst is in the RBG setting when a rogue can just sprint through an entire pack and the only way to stop him is to stun or root him, which mostly he can conveniently ignore with cloak.

Generally I always default to assuming PvP talk is about 3v3 unless either I or the person I'm responding to explicitly state a different bracket. The reason I do this is because all other pvp brackets are unbalanced - and Blizzard only seems to balance things based upon 3v3 representation in the ~1800+ brackets: unless things get wayyy out of hand (at which point they apply a half-baked solution that usually has side effects).

The Rogue ability to sprint around in RBGs and random battlegrounds, or 2v2, or 5v5 - isn't something they will ever care about fixing - so it's pretty pointless for us to debate it.

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Isn't it being removed in wod anyway

Yes - but it looks like most classes are losing their root/snare breaks - and hopefully with it most classes are losing their free/spammable roots/snares: the meta is changing.

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@ Yvaelle Whattttt? Unless you're talking high end arena, BoS is damn near mandatory.

I'm talking about high end 3v3 arenas, yes.

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Rets emancipate only clears -1- slow/root at a time besides freedom.

I'm sorry that being able to remove only 1 root/snare per GCD, during the whole seconds that Freedom is on cooldown, is so burdensome for you

Rogues can -literally- spam burst of speed, move at 80% movement speed, not be slowed at all and still do a lot of pressure because of burst of speed.

They can spam it, it does cost energy and GCDs though - but more importantly - it doesn't do anything to roots, only snares. Most effective rogue comps don't bring rogues for their pressure, you bring rogues for their fantastic burst cycles and cooldowns (burst, CC, utility, etc).

If I wanted pressure, rogues would be pretty far down on my list: nerve strike is nice, but a) it's nerfed, and b) it exists solely to compensate for some of the very low pressure that rogues put out between burst cycles (due to them having to maintain buffs/debuffs/kidneys using their combo points - rather than converting CPs into damage).

[qwss111]

Why don't we give all classes a way to boost their speed. Also, why not give everyone a bubble and 3 snares, maybe a way to stealth too. Let's just make all classes equal
Oh wait..

Missing tbc

[Skarssen]

Have to disagree about balancing issues. While they have historically focused on 3's, it should be clear to everyone that RBGs are now a very large part of rated PVP in this game, and it is clear that they DO care about balance there. I can see where BoS wouldn't be mandatory in 3's, but it is beyond ridiculous in RBGs.

[Cirayne24]

Have to disagree about balancing issues. While they have historically focused on 3's, it should be clear to everyone that RBGs are now a very large part of rated PVP in this game, and it is clear that they DO care about balance there. I can see where BoS wouldn't be mandatory in 3's, but it is beyond ridiculous in RBGs.

Guardian druids should be looked at before removing BoS in RBGs. Yeah, the rogue can attempt to speed cap, but if you can't after 3 stacks you're pretty much done. Whereas Guardians can double that with ease.

[Skarssen]

Why don't we give all classes a way to boost their speed. Also, why not give everyone a bubble and 3 snares, maybe a way to stealth too. Let's just make all classes equal
Oh wait..

Missing tbc

Sure, lets give DK's a 50%HP heal that costs 5 RP! That's unique and would help DK representation, right?




Keeping a drastically OP ability in the game because it is unique isn't a serious argument.

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Guardian druids should be looked at before removing BoS in RBGs. Yeah, the rogue can attempt to speed cap, but if you can't after 3 stacks you're pretty much done. Whereas Guardians can double that with ease.

The redirect.

"Exhibit A is more overpowered than exhibit B".....

Doesn't matter. Yes, guardians are too good (in comparison to other tanks) in RBGs. Doesn't at all alter the fact that BoS is ridiculous and OP.

[Cirayne24]

The redirect.

"Exhibit A is more overpowered than exhibit B".....

Doesn't matter. Yes, guardians are too good (in comparison to other tanks) in RBGs. Doesn't at all alter the fact that BoS is ridiculous and OP.

It may be a redirect, but I find Guardians ridiculously more OP and bothersome than rogues. Hence, I can live with BoS as is since it won't save them from a coordinated attack for long.

You have your opinion, I'm allowed mine. Guardian druids break FC games.

[Yvaelle]

Have to disagree about balancing issues. While they have historically focused on 3's, it should be clear to everyone that RBGs are now a very large part of rated PVP in this game, and it is clear that they DO care about balance there. I can see where BoS wouldn't be mandatory in 3's, but it is beyond ridiculous in RBGs.

The current state of Guardian Druids is a perfectly valid example of how RBGs - while enjoyed by much of the community - is not a serious balance focus of the Dev Team. Things are allowed (through inaction) to be broken in RBGs, Holinka recently stated that's happy with the current state of Guardian Druids in RBGs and isn't planning to fix it - because he likes that some specs are very good at some scenarios (like Guardians as FCs).

If the same had been true about such an imbalance in 3v3, they would at the very least not respond so cavalierly about it - they would agree there is a problem and that they are looking into it - even if it took them half a season to address it.

Guardian druids break FC games.

^ Agreed.

[Tyrean]

Come on Yvaelle I know you are better than that. You make it sound like if you list all of the abilities it makes your point. You don't even seem to think about how the skills you list are actually used and their real power. Or the fact that windwalkers and enhancement have auto apply 50% snares. I have enjoyed your posts mostly because they are well thought out and interesting, but this one just makes me wonder what you were thinking. Yeah, classes have skills that let you get out of things. A lot of what you mentioned though is used for defensive purposes, and the idea that you would use them to stick to a target... I know you don't believe that so why post it?

EDIT:

Edited my post down because I respect Yvaelle and I was being a bit of a dick in my reply.

[Yvaelle]

Come on Yvaelle I know you are better than that. You make it sound like if you list all of the abilities it makes your point.

Listing abilities doesn't prove my point, but if you list two abilities amongst a multitude that are available to you - you are being disingenuous about the situation. You said that Enhancement shamans only have Spirit Walk and Windwalk Totem (making effort to point out that this was an optional talent), and further said that they are long cooldowns (both 1m, which is pretty short). You intentionally neglected to mention that an enhancement shaman, caught in a dire situation by a root or snare - does have the ability to Shamanistic Rage or Ghost Wolf out of it.

You made the same distorted argument for Windwalkers only being able to roll in response to a snare - so I pointed out that Windwalkers actually have six different ways they can respond to snares - many of them on very short cooldowns. I'm not listing abilities to say "thus my argument is proved" - I'm trying to provide the evidence you willfully neglected when you framed the argument.

Yeah, classes have skills that let you get out of things. A lot of what you mentioned though is used for defensive purposes, and the idea that you would use them to stick to a target... I know you don't believe that so why post it?

Many abilities, hopefully most actually - serve many purposes. Rogues use Cloak of Shadows to stay on target during burst cycles. Warriors use Bladestorm to break roots and snares or prevent incoming CC. I've used Dispersion to sprint after an execute-range LoS target before (only because he didn't have self-heals and was also LoS of his healer, but not for long).

Is blowing Nimble Brew (or Shamanistic Rage) on a Root the ideal use of it? No. Will a good player do it if they absolutely need to be out of this Root right this second? Yes.

My DK uses Anti-magic Shell more for immuning CC's than for preventing incoming burst magic damage - so I absolutely believe that you would use a defensive cooldown to stay on target rather than only ever using it for its maximally effective defensive capability. Mages and Rdruids blow Ice Block like a trinket, as do Paladins with bubble, as does just about everyone... are you saying that isn't the case? (In which case, I suspect we play different games)