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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Romulan1993's Avatar
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    What is a decent Ignite damage to use Combustion on

    I'm using the addon CombustionHelper to help with knowing when to Combust. I have 560ilvl and 50% crit fully raidbuffed but on most fights I'm struggling on heroic to break 200k. I feel this is down to poor Combustion control as I'm good with DoT upkeep and CD usage.
    1/3 GM of Valar Morghulis Horde Torrent Mill EU

  2. #2
    a good combustion does help, about 70-80k ignite but nowadays its more about pumping out those pyroblasts

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Alroxas's Avatar
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    Yeah, currently combustion only rolls 20% of the ignite damage (in previous patches it was at 50% and prior to that 100%). If anything, combustion does reset Inferno blast which is helpful to continue pumping out pyroblasts

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Frost1129's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romulan1993 View Post
    I'm using the addon CombustionHelper to help with knowing when to Combust. I have 560ilvl and 50% crit fully raidbuffed but on most fights I'm struggling on heroic to break 200k. I feel this is down to poor Combustion control as I'm good with DoT upkeep and CD usage.
    It's hard to give you an estimate based on just ilvl and crit. Mastery, professions, potion use or not, and trinkets all go into how big your ignite is going to be.

    If you want, you can post your logs (warcraftlogs plz <3) to the ask for DPS help thread and figure out if you're building combustions properly with your gear set up. If you are, then you are going to have to get a feel for what your bad, average, and great ignite values are for the pull and subsequent ignite building periods and go from there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranglos View Post
    a good combustion does help, about 70-80k ignite but nowadays its more about pumping out those pyroblasts
    Combustion still can be around 10% of your overall damage, so knowing how to build a good one and when you have a good one in your gear is still important.

  5. #5
    The Patient Kver's Avatar
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    Op, it highly depends on your trinkets and your gear. If you have poor trinkets and you get 4 pyroblast crits in a row then there really is not a lot you can do about it. Just make sure that you do actually snapshot your procs with Alter Time(BBoY > 6 stacks) and that you shoot as many pyroblasts as you can. Use combustion before the 2nd presence of mind pyroblast hits in your opener, it'll pollute the ignite. Don't worry too much about combustion, on single target it's normally not higher than 10% of your DPS, just make sure that you try to use it correctly and it should work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranglos View Post
    a good combustion does help, about 70-80k ignite but nowadays its more about pumping out those pyroblasts
    Did you really make an account just for this :/ Op is 560 ilvl, I'm sure you always hit 80k combustions(I assume you meant that, if you meant ignite that's worse) on a 560 ilvl mage.

  6. #6
    Brewmaster Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    I would say a 50k combustion is quite good, especially in your gear, assuming crit banner. (so 250k ignite).

    The people saying combustion doesn't matter are plain and simply wrong, you want to optimize it, it's still a huge part of your dps, just not as OP as it used to be. Especially on cleave fights it can be enormous.

    The main thing is pumping as many high crit pyroblasts into your ignite. There's multiple strategies for this, but the current main one is saving a pyroblast + heating up proc, while having 4pc. And then pressing alter time with presence of mind. You can then spam pyroblasts until you run out, and manually reset AT, and spam pyroblasts again. While your last POM pyroblast is in the air, you sohuld hit combustion.

    There's other way to get big combustions, but these methods are quite advanced, and will soon be released in a guide.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Draghonfourt View Post
    Did you really make an account just for this :/ Op is 560 ilvl, I'm sure you always hit 80k combustions(I assume you meant that, if you meant ignite that's worse) on a 560 ilvl mage.
    No i didn't i have lurked here for a while just thought i would contribute

  8. #8
    Do not lie to the OP, 50k combustions are not quite good, that's pretty shite.

  9. #9
    Brewmaster Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nintendox View Post
    Do not lie to the OP, 50k combustions are not quite good, that's pretty shite.
    The OP is 560 ilvl, a 50k combustion is amazing for 560 ilvl. I'm sure you're consistantly getting 100k combustions in your gear, right? Just link me your armory so I can analyze how exactly you do it so I can be just as good.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Romulan1993's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchmagoz View Post
    The OP is 560 ilvl, a 50k combustion is amazing for 560 ilvl. I'm sure you're consistantly getting 100k combustions in your gear, right? Just link me your armory so I can analyze how exactly you do it so I can be just as good.
    How do I track how much damage Combustion does. If I remember correctly my skada doesn't show combustion. Or I stupid.
    1/3 GM of Valar Morghulis Horde Torrent Mill EU

  11. #11
    mybigignite or combustion helper should do the tick

  12. #12
    Brewmaster Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    Mouseover the combustion tooltip after you applied it, it shows the combusiton tick damage.

  13. #13
    As important as crit is to our damage, it doesn't have any bearing on your max ignite. There are more specifics we need to know, and we cant help you any without more info.

    Combustion damage shows in skada. One weakness of skada is that it lumps the direct and indirect component of many spells into the same total. This however does not have much effect on the average combustion tick that you see. The direct damage is an outlier, and also is a very small fraction of the total number of times combustion will do damage.

    Combustionhelper will show a value for what combustion will tick for, but nowadays since combustion's damage is based entirely on ignite, if you have an ignite tracker youre basically looking at the same number. I wouldn't worry too much on ignite damage though. It's a good indicator of how your damage and gear is progressing, but IMO its better focus on planning your ignites with cds/trinket procs/pooling procs etc rather than reacting to a number on an addon. An ignite addon should be just confirmation that it's the right time to combustion.

    If you really must know the exact combustion ticks, you need to use WoL/WCL/recount. Skada will only give you an estimate.

    PS: An educated guess for the time being, 200-250k sounds about right. I honestly couldn't tell you from experience, I wasn't playing fire from 550 to 574 ilvl
    Last edited by Pretzul; 2014-03-16 at 05:33 PM.

  14. #14
    Brewmaster Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    Am I really the only person that realizes you can mouseover the combustion debuff on the boss to see your combustion damage/ticks? Or is this something specific my UI is doing that I didn't know was an addon?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchmagoz View Post
    Am I really the only person that realizes you can mouseover the combustion debuff on the boss to see your combustion damage/ticks? Or is this something specific my UI is doing that I didn't know was an addon?
    It's default UI

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchmagoz View Post
    Am I really the only person that realizes you can mouseover the combustion debuff on the boss to see your combustion damage/ticks? Or is this something specific my UI is doing that I didn't know was an addon?
    you can just use an addon to show your ignite damage instead of messing about with mousing over ignite on the mob until you think its big enough to pop combustion, its just not an effective way to monitor ignite ticks.

  17. #17
    Brewmaster Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    you can just use an addon to show your ignite damage instead of messing about with mousing over ignite on the mob until you think its big enough to pop combustion, its just not an effective way to monitor ignite ticks.

    Nowhere did I state ignite? I said COMBUSTION ticks. Someone was asking about COMBUSTION damage, not ignite.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchmagoz View Post
    Nowhere did I state ignite? I said COMBUSTION ticks. Someone was asking about COMBUSTION damage, not ignite.
    1. Combustion damage is based on ignite damage. So if you know what the ignite is, you will also know combustion damage due to the proportionality.

    2. Thread title is "What is a decent Ignite damage to use Combustion on," which suggests the OP wants to know proactively what his combustion will do. Your statement of mousing over the debuff is entirely reactive, since you need to pop combustion to see afterward what its going to do. -_-

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchmagoz View Post
    Am I really the only person that realizes you can mouseover the combustion debuff on the boss to see your combustion damage/ticks? Or is this something specific my UI is doing that I didn't know was an addon?
    As stated above, thats from default UI or defaulte unitframes with default debuffs showing to be correct. I myself use almost nothing from default UI, so I never really dont know what my combustions ticks for, do track Ignite so i know when to pop it however. Used to use an addon called Ignition, it had a mode that made every tick come up in the chat window on how much it hit for, sadly not updated alot lately and currently brings my 100+ fps down to a stable 20fps, so dont use it atm. So if anyone know an addon that does what Ignition did for me, feel free to help me find a replacement.

    As for OP question. 200k+ Ignites are good in that gear I would say, on an opener you should be able to get more, but the chance of it falling lower might not be worth it. Dont remember my ilvl at the time, but did use to pop it whenever MyBigIgnite showed me 200k+ on openers, atm in ilvl 574 i usually get 250k+ openers, 300k+ if everything goes right. Depending on fights, I try to get a 200k+ one on the next combustions during the fight, if trinkets and whatnot fuck you over, that might be hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129
    Combustion still can be around 10% of your overall damage, so knowing how to build a good one and when you have a good one in your gear is still important.
    After checking logs quickly for myself, I have done close to 10% on some single target fights(Malkorok and Iron Juggernaut), over 10% on some multi target fights(Protectors and Shamans). And also way lower on other single and multitarget fights(like Spoils, hard to make it do alot there, had 5.x% on my last fight there). Have alot of fights I dont use it as often or effective as I should (cba on farmbosses sometimes). But you (OP) should atleast aim for not going lower than 5% on any fight. Check logs if you are using that, If you have this, then the next step would be to aim higher, to somewhere between 5-10% on single target, and 10%+ on multi target where your spreaded combustion stays for the whole duration after spread. (Not like on Spoils where you spread it and the adds that got it spread to them die 4sec later)

    But since you say you struggle to get it 200k+, find a mark you will definetly reach on openers, in this case, lets just say 200k on an opener, use your combustion. I know I can get mine to 350k on openers, it hardly ever happends, so when I reach 300+, I just pop it. On the combustions during the rest of the fight, if my Black Blood trinket has procced, 200k is my goal. When nothing procs, and fight is nearing end and I just want to use it, I pop it on 100k+ (This can happend on the 2nd combustion aswell if procs are beeing a whore). But watch your Ignite tracker, see what you reach in diffrent periods during the fight, and find a number you are happy with and try reach that every time. There isnt really a secret behind a high one. In an opener I have had 350k+ before I use altertime for the 2nd time for another round, then had it drop to 200k instead, so RNG is a big part of it.

    I have also had 700k+ once, but that was Crit-Mastery-Haste instead of Crit-Haste-Mastery reforged and with Mage armor during opener. Overall DPS was however lower.

    And after writing this half asleep and almost cant remember what I have already wrote and to sum up, incase TLDR. Find out your "max" ignite, use combustions when you are close to that, dont try to get higher, if you have that during an AT macro, use combustions before using AT again, so it dont drop (even tho it cant get higher, often not worth the risk). Set goals, opener combustion, 200k ignites. 2nd combustion, 120k Ignites. 3rd combustion with more CD's ready (AT), 150k Ignites for example, then when your "max" ignite gets higher when you gain more mastery, set new goals.

    Hope this could help.

  20. #20
    The Patient Kver's Avatar
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    If Combustion doesn't get close to 10% of your damage you either hit the Pyro RNG jackpot or you're not using your post-pull combustions effectively.

    To the op: track ignite. Do opener as you're used to, combust before PoM pyro hits given that you've cast 4 pyros. Pray. If you're interested in more advanced aspects send me a message, I'll just confuse people in this thread.

    People, combustion is not magic. You just need to be careful with executing the pull correctly; if everything procs you win. If you capture the 4 piece and both your trinkets(as should generally be the case) then you have 2 guaranteed crits, and 2 pyroblasts with an insanely high crit rate.

    I'm guessing that you all use combustion on cooldown during the fight though.
    Last edited by Kver; 2014-03-20 at 08:42 AM.

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