Rant about current MMO games . Couple things.

[Cosmic Janitor]

And I wish companies would just stop making damn mmo's and stop wasting great fantasy universes on mmo concepts and instead make good RPGs like they used to. The whole "let's make an mmo to milk the most out of our customers" is getting old ... and the resulting themeparks bore me greatly.

[Itisamuh]

Fortunately millions disagree and love having options besides kissing the butt of a random guild leader to get anywhere in the game.

[Primernova]

I wouldn't go as far as to say that. Playerbase (aka Human beings) changed the Genre. There are way many types of gamers nowadays than 10 years ago. Should a company just ignore all these new potential subscribers/players and focus on the oldschool players?

There are plenty of players who still enjoy WoW, Rift, FFXIV:ARR, (Insert your MMO here). Having played WoW since BC, I prefer it nowadays. I'm surely aware it's not the same for everyone, but there are players who share the same feeling. Nowadays I can still go "Hardcore" mode and clear Heroic modes if I want or I can take a break and take it easy doing Flex. If time/schedule is the issue, I can even do LFR. People talk about community, but I've been adding people to my real ID just because of a small talk while doing Heroic Scenarios or World Boss Runs. There is way too much blame on the Game itself rather than "what can I do to improve my community?".

If a game launched with a gameplay similar to WoW Vanilla nowadays (but with updated graphics and bugs fixed) it wouldn't be the same thing. Well, maybe for a couple of months? Then the company realizes the market isn't the same. They can stick to that model and work with a smaller playerbase, but why? One could argue EVE does this, but EVE is largely different from MoP/Rift/FFXIV:ARR/etc, while WoW Vanilla would be more of a variation of these.

As always when someone brings similar topics up, you either provide relevant feedback to Devs (but not expecting it to be applied to the game, as it's just your opinion and might not reflect what is healthy for the game or even what other people want) or you quit.

I quit nearly 3 years ago.

Just bored and decided to post here.

Look around a little more, and see how MMOs are viewed.

Tell me after you do that, that MMOs are a healthy genre...

I love MMOs but it's not looking good.

Wildstar is my last hope.

[Milkyz]

Look around a little more, and see how MMOs are viewed.

Tell me after you do that, that MMOs are a healthy genre...

What do you mean? (especially on first quoted sentence). How other people view MMOs?

[Primernova]

What do you mean? (especially on first quoted sentence). How other people view MMOs?

"Too easy."

"A containment genre, for the worst gamers out there."

"Addicted"

[Ciddy]

Quest Tracker: Back in the days ppl needed to figure out by reading the Qtext or asking some1 where to do the quests. Now days you just follow arrow or check in the map where to go. The game basicly hold your hands and lead the way trough the game. I think this is stupid and boring. Why take away one social aspect and the adventure of questing and make it EASY?

You make some good points, but I disagree with this entirely. I hated it back in Classic when I got some vague quest giver who said "There's this thingie, and it does this stuff, and it's in a cave somewhere, and you'll need to take it to someone in Azeroth who might want it" and I just had to figure it out. I usually ended up tabbing out to check Thottbot so I could find out that there was, in fact, some named NPC supposed to spawn and drop the item, but the NPC bugged out and never spawned, and I just wasted like 45 minutes running around on a wild goose chase.

Maybe Quest Tracker was not the ideal way to fix it, but the system back in the day was very far from perfect.

[Cosmic Janitor]

"Too easy."

"A containment genre, for the worst gamers out there."

"Addicted"

Moblie games.

[Milkyz]

Too easy.

"A containment genre, for the worst gamers out there."

"Addicted"

Great.

I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that think horrible stuff about uh... Basketball. Let's suppose you like basketball, would you stop playing because someone says Basketball sucks?

If you ask people about MOBAs. "Toxic community", "Flammers", "Trolls". Still, there is a lot of people out there that love MOBAs! Shooters? "Full of 10 yo kids".

What other people think of MMOs doesn't matter for me. I had loads of fun while working my way through Heroic Siege of Orgrimmar. Heck, we've been clearing Heroic SoO since early December and raids are still fun (even when we decide to suddenly forget strats and wipe for stupid stuff). How is this not a multi-player online game?And I know a lot of people that have fun doing Random BGs everyday. Blizzcon with all 25+ guildies hanging around together was amazing as well.

The only thing that matter is: are you having fun? You quit 3 years ago, so I suppose you were not. You did the right thing as I'll quit right away anything, not only an MMO, the moment it's not fun for me anymore.

[Sansnom]

Sorry about my bad english but here we go.

First of all. you "bu..bu..but i dont have time to play the game" type ppl. stop whining about the games if they are too hard or take too much of your time...I have an answer of that. DONT_PLAY_THE_FUCKING_GAME_THEN. There are soooo many games that dont require that much of your time.
I dont have that much time too. But i dont QQ about it. I love the adventure feeling that games used to have and when they were hard..but thats gone too.

Quest Tracker: Back in the days ppl needed to figure out by reading the Qtext or asking some1 where to do the quests. Now days you just follow arrow or check in the map where to go. The game basicly hold your hands and lead the way trough the game. I think this is stupid and boring. Why take away one social aspect and the adventure of questing and make it EASY?

LFG/LFR:
1. This is the cancer of mmo. This _thing_ takes so much out of the game. Again... social aspect: I tought mmo games are social but no...not now days. The crossrealm shit. Once the instance is done you will never see those guys again.
Adventure: ???...Remember when you needed to run and things happened when you were heading to the dungeon? Imo this is one part of the World PVP. But NOPE not anymore. just teleport us instantly in the dungeons so we dont need to do shit.

2. Ppl who are not putting effort or time into the game should NOT see the same content than the guys who do that.

Or you know, you could find a game that more suitable to your need. LFG/LFR does not take much out of the game. As many people, myself, included, have said. Spamming trade chat in a city for 30mins+ to HOPE to get an invite to a dungeon run is not what I considered to be playing a game. Before you jump up and down and said make friends. First, friends are people I like to play with. Not people that happens to have rolled a tank or healer. Join a guild. What happens, guild tank or healer logs. Immediately the guild chat is filled with request for dungeon runs.

Your experience may differ.

[Deleted]

I don't really know where I stand on this situation - I don't think I can answer without being biased - as a long time gamer in WoW I do think the world is rather stale right now - but if I look through the eyes of a newbie then I can see the appeal.

The main thing I miss is the social aspect - finding a group of people on my own sever and going together, having said that it was an absolute pain in the arse! I would often just log on type in /2 wait 10 mins, try to bribe a high level to boost me then just give up and quest.

Dungeons are very important for newbie players - especially those who want to perhaps go medicore/hardcore so I'm all for LFD. As for LFR that's something im rather dubious about, on one hand WoW is a game and should be enjoyed by everyone, on the other WoW is not just any game but it is an RPG and with that in mind there needs to be a sense of progression - LFR diminishes that given it shows players (mostly not so dedicated) the end game content with minimal effort.

[Sorrior]

Their were never 'closed off avenues', that whole frame of mind is social engineering, through mass postings of hyper-casuals and Blizzard letting the guys that made Vanilla and TBC WoW (Blizzard North) go.

People are in a panic, so two sides are formed... The evil 'elitist' and the good and honorable 'casual'...

.....I started in vanilla played through BC and in fact didn;t unsub once till some time during pandaria i think it was maybe the end of cata....

I was fine not raiding and so on..But at the same time if i could find a group i could raid whether it be pug or not....In fact it was ALOT more pleasant then say LFR/LFD elitists are today in some ways...

Overall things HAVE changed and not for the better....If anything i;d say it;s mid tier players with overinflated egos that is the problem..I personally am likely low high- mid mid tier player skill wise mid high at MOST. But i know that i think alot don;t or won;t admit that.

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I quit nearly 3 years ago.

Just bored and decided to post here.

Look around a little more, and see how MMOs are viewed.

Tell me after you do that, that MMOs are a healthy genre...

I love MMOs but it's not looking good.

Wildstar is my last hope.

I'd actually say wildstar is setting itself up for a VERY niche set of players...And if it expects millions of players then it is doomed to go f2p...May be anyways and might be good for it..But yeah it caters to a VERY VERY select group of MMO players one that isn't being refilled anymore due to the FPS style mentality of in and out becoming so prevalent.

[Milkyz]

LFG/LFR really started to turn the game into a single player mmorpg. You play the game as single player but you have these other people you can spam windfurry blessed blade of the windseeker to and show off your gear by standing around in stormwind for four hours doing absolutely nothing.

LFG/LFR really started to allow people to turn the game into a single player mmorpg if they so desire. You are now able to play the game as single player if you want but you have these other people you can spam windfurry blessed blade of the windseeker to and show off your gear by standing around in stormwind for four hours doing absolutely nothing. You can though, still play the game like before and join a guild and do content together. Which brings both the good and bad points of social interactions, but now you have a choice to play it solo if you would rather not deal with the ugly part of it.

Bolded is my point of view on your issue.

[cabyio]

To me the elitists are the ones who close off avenues for others or don't help others..A challenge is fun but a community that even prevents people from learning is not.

Barriers to entry are a good thing. Only people with enough drive to get over the barrier get in. Keeps your population high quality.

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You can though, still play the game like before and join a guild and do content together

This should be the only way to play the game. It makes people alot more careful with their actions. If you can just go do stuff by yourself why do you need to try to be your best and get along with others? Answer, you don't.

[KungFuFanta]

Counter Strike is an easy game to pick up which takes skill but doesn't require grind. It requires grinding skill, but grinding skill is fun.

It has millions of players worldwide. It doesn't need high entry barriers to create quality players. Quality players create themselves, based on skill.

You play and you learn to be better, you don't grind just to have a chance at the GEAR to be better.

"CS is a shooter herrr derrr WoW is an MMO." Wow is a fucking videogame, two words in there: video and GAME.

Video: check
Game: more like second life up till WOTLK, now people want to go back to that because it satisfied them to /played for 10 hours before getting a trinket upgrade whereupon they would call themselves masters of the universe and patrol the forums like their shit don't strink.

Screw that, get with the times:

1. No one cares about your grind accomplishments
2. EQ is dead, and so should its principles, this isn't 99' anymore
3. Even in MMOs, skill is still determined in heroic/hard level content and PVP. All YOU want is for skilled players who don't have 10s of hours to grind a week to stay behind you because you know you'll get beaten by them once they reach your gear level. Screw you. Reinstall EQ, play on pre-BC private servers.

Oh, it's lonely there isn't it? No one cares about your Glowing Brightwood Staff? We never did, we just wanted it so we could be on par with everyone else.

[iadamson]

I would personally enjoy an mmo that immersed the players more into the world.

However it's time consuming, and that's contradicting to most players objectives and contrary to what most players find fun.

WoW has changed a lot over the years, if that's good or bad is up to the individual.

I remember having to meet up with people at a stone and summon them, a process that could take up to an hour... Just to get to the point of wanting to do a raid or instance. Seemed pointless some people would have to log off before we could even get to the stone. The game adjusted to that, but it had it's effects on world immersion that's for sure.

[Sorrior]

Barriers to entry are a good thing. Only people with enough drive to get over the barrier get in. Keeps your population high quality.

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This should be the only way to play the game. It makes people alot more careful with their actions. If you can just go do stuff by yourself why do you need to try to be your best and get along with others? Answer, you don't.

Only my point is not that...It's that as alot of former hardcore raiders get older they start to lack the needed time...And with how alot of younger gamers are they're not being replaced as much as they were.

And no attunememts having to clear content is one thing...But if the stpries are true and we're talking about 42 weeks for best gear...AND over 2 weeks if not a couple months jyst to attune...

Frankly just typing that makes me worry for updates...Imagine it if they release an update before that point with new gear kinda is messed up..

It's less the attunements and even time and more the fact that evel old school WoW wasn't so bad...Not sure many things have been...

Also I for one like trying to do better for myself..But honestly even alot of guilds seem to be suffering from the social nuttery going on.

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Counter Strike is an easy game to pick up which takes skill but doesn't require grind. It requires grinding skill, but grinding skill is fun.

It has millions of players worldwide. It doesn't need high entry barriers to create quality players. Quality players create themselves, based on skill.

You play and you learn to be better, you don't grind just to have a chance at the GEAR to be better.

"CS is a shooter herrr derrr WoW is an MMO." Wow is a fucking videogame, two words in there: video and GAME.

Video: check
Game: more like second life up till WOTLK, now people want to go back to that because it satisfied them to /played for 10 hours before getting a trinket upgrade whereupon they would call themselves masters of the universe and patrol the forums like their shit don't strink.

Screw that, get with the times:

1. No one cares about your grind accomplishments
2. EQ is dead, and so should its principles, this isn't 99' anymore
3. Even in MMOs, skill is still determined in heroic/hard level content and PVP. All YOU want is for skilled players who don't have 10s of hours to grind a week to stay behind you because you know you'll get beaten by them once they reach your gear level. Screw you. Reinstall EQ, play on pre-BC private servers.

Oh, it's lonely there isn't it? No one cares about your Glowing Brightwood Staff? We never did, we just wanted it so we could be on par with everyone else.

This too...Thing is as I was trying to say the current antisocial mentality even creates a block for POTENTIALLY skilled players to become skilled...As in we all started somewhere but what do you do when you eithet can't start or are sidelined for mr better gear/attunememt even if you are better.

Again I like attunements I like a bit of a gear grind and all that...But I also think they can go overboard.

Also as was also mentioned the world immersion is also part of it...These days FAR too much focus is on endgame. Again the amount of time Wildstat is asking for is insane and will lead some people if not alot to rush to endgame. Add in 40 man raids...And yeah they have made some interesting choices that I'm not sure will fly anymore as far as wildstar goes.

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I would personally enjoy an mmo that immersed the players more into the world.

However it's time consuming, and that's contradicting to most players objectives and contrary to what most players find fun.

WoW has changed a lot over the years, if that's good or bad is up to the individual.

I remember having to meet up with people at a stone and summon them, a process that could take up to an hour... Just to get to the point of wanting to do a raid or instance. Seemed pointless some people would have to log off before we could even get to the stone. The game adjusted to that, but it had it's effects on world immersion that's for sure.

Wildstar can definitely do this ESO does and SE has found ways to get people into the world..

Problem is that the emdgame craziness of Wildstar will trigger a decent amount of people to try and rush...As for ESO...yhat one will be mainly for PVPers and ES fans and a select group of em at that.

[Milkyz]

This should be the only way to play the game. It makes people alot more careful with their actions. If you can just go do stuff by yourself why do you need to try to be your best and get along with others? Answer, you don't.

That's your answer. Considering that my answer is different (and many, many other people that play in guilds, talk in Trade, still make friends in game) the problem is with people that refuse to socialize because they aren't obliged to anymore. Which is weird. To answer "If you can just go do stuff by yourself why do you need to try to be your best and get along with others?", I have two points:

1. To socialize with others because I want to (instead of being forced to). This applies to guilds ranging from Flex-only guilds to World First guilds. I could be doing stuff by myself... but in my view, why waste the socializing potential of doing it in a group? Why waste the potential of screaming upon defeating a progression boss, sharing real-life stories on gchat, having a group for scenarios, professions, world bosses. Why waste the potential of the enormous social aspect WoW (and any MMO has it) because you think that, as you're not anymore obliged to be social, you shouldn't be social?

2. To push my own limits and thus engage in a more challenging content. This concept here is vague. Flex can be challenging to some people, Normal to another group, Heroic to another one. You have to pick your playstyle here.

[melodramocracy]

The unfortunate truth is that MMO's are generally far more geared towards immediate gratification in todays game environment, to the point that there's very little left that actually defined and separated the genre from even co-op multiplayer games in years past.

And given the modern playerbase, the majority of which simply has no real first hand insight as to what these games used to be like, I wouldn't hold my breath for things to get any better.

[OzoAndIndi]

Or how 'bout everyone just stop whining and complaining about junk and whining and complaining about other people's whining and complaining, because that's what rants like that end up being.

Quest Tracker: Back in the days ppl needed to figure out by reading the Qtext or asking some1 where to do the quests. Now days you just follow arrow or check in the map where to go. The game basicly hold your hands and lead the way trough the game. I think this is stupid and boring. Why take away one social aspect and the adventure of questing and make it EASY?

I don't really see the issue with quest tracker stuff... I mean, if you were were driving to a store far out of town that promised to have one single item left in stock you were trying hard to get a hold of, would you really just set off on the road blind.

Kinda like game GPS, and after all, we're already "cheating" in real life with GPS, maybe we should stop and let the real world be more of an adventure and not be afraid to waste our time and miss other priorities we need to take care of....

But if I'm in game and just ordered to pick up someone's laundry.... nah, not going to wander around an hour trying to find the guy who has it.

[beanman12345]

as far as the quest tracker. That just needed to be put in. Everyone just alt tabbed to Thottbot or Alakhazam or whatever and used that with coords, so quest tracker just made it so you didn't have to use those sites. Great addition.

As far as LFD/LFR. I don't mind LFD as much, though I see how it killed community it did make up in convenience, but not sure if the loss of all those great possible connection that could have been made make up for it.

But LFR is completely different. it's convenient in a way, but in the end you just sit in a city waiting for an hour+ long queue, and if you have to bio or afk for even 2 minutes or you alt tab to check email and miss your queue it's like ARGH!!!!!!!!!!! I don't think LFR killed the community, because there was no community there to begin with. The people who generally do LFR more the most part, didn't really raid to begin with. It does however really bring out some really horrible behavior, that I do agree with. but w/o it, if you didn't raid, you were basically stuck in dungeon gear, sometimes that gear for years until the next expansion. Maybe one upgrade in that time. though wrath and cata had those last patch dungeons that upgraded gear but still, it's a long long wait between upgrades. It is nice to get better gear somewhat regularly even if it might be considered welfare gear by some.