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  1. #41
    as far as the quest tracker. That just needed to be put in. Everyone just alt tabbed to Thottbot or Alakhazam or whatever and used that with coords, so quest tracker just made it so you didn't have to use those sites. Great addition.

    As far as LFD/LFR. I don't mind LFD as much, though I see how it killed community it did make up in convenience, but not sure if the loss of all those great possible connection that could have been made make up for it.

    But LFR is completely different. it's convenient in a way, but in the end you just sit in a city waiting for an hour+ long queue, and if you have to bio or afk for even 2 minutes or you alt tab to check email and miss your queue it's like ARGH!!!!!!!!!!! I don't think LFR killed the community, because there was no community there to begin with. The people who generally do LFR more the most part, didn't really raid to begin with. It does however really bring out some really horrible behavior, that I do agree with. but w/o it, if you didn't raid, you were basically stuck in dungeon gear, sometimes that gear for years until the next expansion. Maybe one upgrade in that time. though wrath and cata had those last patch dungeons that upgraded gear but still, it's a long long wait between upgrades. It is nice to get better gear somewhat regularly even if it might be considered welfare gear by some.

  2. #42
    Well if we talk about wow and how the "majory" ppl are those casualt that wants everything fast and now. If you just look subscriber the graphs. its just going down. Ppl just rush trough the end and then what? theres nothing to do and they switch to another game cause they dont give shit. Same goes with the hardcore players. They unsubscribe and wait till the next patch. Back in the days there was raids waiting for you after you finished the one that was the "end game", There it waits you, go and get there. To get my point in BC the first raid 2nd boss took about 18 days to kill. (im not so sure about the expansion) but then in cataclysm the whole CONTENT was cleared in 3 days. What happened? Imo the game should go harder and harder along the way to keep players excited. Not easier...
    The game is just simply so easy now days. hell you can lvl up ur character without using any spell. just LFD and follow some1. Theres none, zero challenge in the game now. Tanks just pull the whole instances and dps nuke them down. No anymore tactics "sheep this one" "sap that one". Its just mindles RUSH.
    What you do with manabar below lvl 90 ? or even above that. What you do with the mage foodtablet anymore? just asking...

  3. #43
    Stood in the Fire Cylom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    as far as the quest tracker. That just needed to be put in. Everyone just alt tabbed to Thottbot or Alakhazam or whatever and used that with coords, so quest tracker just made it so you didn't have to use those sites. Great addition.
    I leveled with my 2 irl friends to 60 before realizing that there were addons/sites that showed you how to do quests :l
    This was from late tbc till early wrath
    As far as LFD/LFR. I don't mind LFD as much, though I see how it killed community it did make up in convenience, but not sure if the loss of all those great possible connection that could have been made make up for it.
    It would be fine if it was from the same server, making lfd/lfg cross-server just screwed up the game big time.
    Also because of lfr/lfd dungeons have to be nerfed, cause they cant communicate and would die alot then go to forums and qq.


    And yeah people now just rush to max level, gear up from timeless then proceed to farm SoO, wish there is a ladder system like before atleast, tired of doing SoO on flex/normal/hard each week, hell I even stopped doing flex and normal and only log in for our guild's heroic raid progress.
    Last edited by Cylom; 2014-04-04 at 04:01 PM.

    What can I say, I love Female Gnomes.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShimmerSwirl View Post
    People don't come back because the game is homogenized with no meaningful progression. Everyone is a winner, all your actions are irrelevant.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by sheepra View Post
    First of all. you "bu..bu..but i dont have time to play the game" type ppl. stop whining about the games if they are too hard or take too much of your time...I have an answer of that. DONT_PLAY_THE_FUCKING_GAME_THEN.

    Quest Tracker: Back in the days ppl needed to figure out by reading the Qtext or asking some1 where to do the quests. Now days you just follow arrow or check in the map where to go. The game basicly hold your hands and lead the way trough the game. I think this is stupid and boring. Why take away one social aspect and the adventure of questing and make it EASY?

    LFG/LFR:
    1. This is the cancer of mmo. This _thing_ takes so much out of the game. Again... social aspect: I tought mmo games are social but no...not now days. The crossrealm shit. Once the instance is done you will never see those guys again.
    Adventure: ???...Remember when you needed to run and things happened when you were heading to the dungeon? Imo this is one part of the World PVP. But NOPE not anymore. just teleport us instantly in the dungeons so we dont need to do shit.

    2. Ppl who are not putting effort or time into the game should NOT see the same content than the guys who do that.


    Like wtf? Are the mmo games now just autopilot games where ppl yell "RUSH TO THE END" "faaaast i want this now without talking to anyone in the game cause i pay for this".
    Where are the old days social experiences and that adventure feeling? its all gone.

    Game makers pls...stop following the current META of mmo games.

    I have spoken.
    Well then. Allow me to lay a few things out.

    1. When it comes to people not having a lot of time to play, this is an actual occurence and not an excuse. People's lives tend to be busy with real issues, and not just pixelated ones. Those of us who have always played Blizzard games will continue to do so. Since you've neither purchased my Games, nor paid my subs, you can keep your opinion of "DONT_PLAY_THE_FUCKING_GAME_THEN" to yourself. I will stop playing WoW when I decide, not someone I don't even know.

    2. Blizz has allowed addons for years. If you despise them so much, you are welcome to not incorporate them into your gameplay. Personally, I spent $50 on my Zygor Guide and love the feature rich environment it provides to make my life a bit easier. I don't ask you to quest my way, you should not be so rude by demanding I play to your standards.

    3. LFG/LFR are simply ways for players with limited time to have access to content. Casual players make up a LARGE portion of the game and pay just as much money to meander through content as people like yourself pay to power through it and demand more. This has always been the way and will always be the way.

    An MMO is what you make it. What you put in is what you get out of it. You should not be so concerned with how others are playing the game they paid for. Instead, you might want to accept the fact that maybe you are ready to move on from WoW, and this lashing out at others, is just the easier route. I know you are probably bummed, but you need to direct your anger to the root cause, and not the other players.

    Edit: Also, the part I left out. The "I have spoken" is a bit narcissistic and gave me more of a laugh than a tremble.
    Last edited by Dr Perry Cox; 2014-04-04 at 05:14 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Perry Cox View Post
    Well then. Allow me to lay a few things out.

    1. When it comes to people not having a lot of time to play, this is an actual occurence and not an excuse. People's lives tend to be busy with real issues, and not just pixelated ones. Those of us who have always played Blizzard games will continue to do so. Since you've neither purchased my Games, nor paid my subs, you can keep your opinion of "DONT_PLAY_THE_FUCKING_GAME_THEN" to yourself. I will stop playing WoW when I decide, not someone I don't even know.

    2. Blizz has allowed addons for years. If you despise them so much, you are welcome to not incorporate them into your gameplay. Personally, I spent $50 on my Zygor Guide and love the feature rich environment it provides to make my life a bit easier. I don't ask you to quest my way, you should not be so rude by demanding I play to your standards.

    3. LFG/LFR are simply ways for players with limited time to have access to content. Casual players make up a LARGE portion of the game and pay just as much money to meander through content as people like yourself pay to power through it and demand more. This has always been the way and will always be the way.

    An MMO is what you make it. What you put in is what you get out of it. You should not be so concerned with how others are playing the game they paid for. Instead, you might want to accept the fact that maybe you are ready to move on from WoW, and this lashing out at others, is just the easier route. I know you are probably bummed, but you need to direct your anger to the root cause, and not the other players.

    Edit: Also, the part I left out. The "I have spoken" is a bit narcissistic and gave me more of a laugh than a tremble.
    Well if we talk about the "majory" ppl are those casuals that wants everything fast and now. If you just look subscriber the graphs. its just going down. Ppl just rush trough the end and then what? theres nothing to do and they switch to another game cause they dont give shit. Same goes with the hardcore players. They unsubscribe and wait till the next patch. Back in the days there was raids waiting for you after you finished the one that was the "end game", There it waits you, go and get there. To get my point in BC the first raid 2nd boss took about 18 days to kill. (im not so sure about the expansion) but then in cataclysm the whole CONTENT was cleared in 3 days. What happened? Imo the game should go harder and harder along the way to keep players excited. Not easier...

    The game is just simply so easy now days. hell you can lvl up ur character without using any spell. just LFD and follow some1. Theres none, zero challenge in the game now. Tanks just pull the whole instances and dps nuke them down. No anymore tactics "sheep this one" "sap that one". Its just mindles RUSH.
    What you do with manabar below lvl 90 ? or even above that. What you do with the mage foodtablet anymore? just asking...
    How is that good thing to let ppl just rush trough the game and let people skip some content? and yes it takes time to make alts and it sucks if your friend wants to start playing the game but thats a good thing. Imo its wrong if your guild needs some1 to roll X character and you say "i make it. wait couple days and we are good to go". You give so much more value and respect to your main character cause it rly taked your time and effort to get where you are now.

    Casuals changed the game to this shitty arcade, theme park game by QQ:ing "its too hard" "it takes so much of my time" "i want all the things right now"....so they made ppl stop playing the game, not otherway. So how that makes any sence that those ones who were willing to put time and effort into the game have to get punished cause of these selfish qq casuals?

  6. #46
    The quest text before quest trackers was often terrible at informing the player of where to go or what to do. They approach the player from the standpoint of someone who has lived in the world, when a new player doesn't know the land. Often times, they completely lacked a real direction to go in their text. Quest trackers were made because quest text was inadequate at getting the job done.

    The same is true of LFG tools. A LFG tool doesn't introduce a new concept. It just takes an existing concept and makes it work better. Sure, they can get perhaps too automated and out of hand, but spamming LFG in chat and assigning yourself to LFG in a search engine tool is basically the same thing, except one is more efficient than the other.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by sheepra View Post
    Casuals changed the game to this shitty arcade, theme park game by QQ:ing "its too hard" "it takes so much of my time" "i want all the things right now"....so they made ppl stop playing the game, not otherway. So how that makes any sence that those ones who were willing to put time and effort into the game have to get punished cause of these selfish qq casuals?
    Labeling people and insulting them pretty much invalidates most arguments for me. You had me until that moment, earnestly listening. Blizz understands that society is becoming more and more instant. It's not just MMOs:

    Microwaves vs ovens

    Voice dial vs push buttons

    Texting vs talking on the phone

    Remote controls vs manually changing/driving something

    Stick shift vs autodrive with self parking

    8 track player vs mp3 player

    In this day and age, you have to make it quick and do it better every single time, or your competition gets the better of you. Most people hate change, and don't really understand how to process it. As I have told others, sometimes, the hate is not even about the game, or the other players in it. Sometimes, there are bigger issues in your life and the one area you thought would never change, changes too, and it scares people.

    Maybe, rather than labeling and flaming other players, you should take a nice long look at your real world and figure out why this change from expansion to expansion seems to bother you, but 5.5M people (estimation) who play the game, never bother to visit the forum or complain about the changes.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Perry Cox View Post
    Labeling people and insulting them pretty much invalidates most arguments for me. You had me until that moment, earnestly listening. Blizz understands that society is becoming more and more instant. It's not just MMOs:

    Microwaves vs ovens

    Voice dial vs push buttons

    Texting vs talking on the phone

    Remote controls vs manually changing/driving something

    Stick shift vs autodrive with self parking

    8 track player vs mp3 player
    How can you compare things that makes your living easier to the game that should be fun? that has nothing to do with the fact that the game is now just autopilotrush and extremely boring?

    ur argument goes like this: Some angry casual is asking "why we have to travel now so much in wow?" "well listen dude, the ppl like to travel now irl more and more"
    Last edited by sheepra; 2014-04-04 at 07:20 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by sheepra View Post
    Quest Tracker: Back in the days ppl needed to figure out by reading the Qtext or asking some1 where to do the quests. Now days you just follow arrow or check in the map where to go. The game basicly hold your hands and lead the way trough the game. I think this is stupid and boring. Why take away one social aspect and the adventure of questing and make it EASY?
    This is moot. What happens today when you ask chat how to do a quest?

    A) Nothing, becuase the zone is empty.
    or
    B) A snarky reply saying "WoWhead knows."

    The problem is that the entire questing game has been moved to wowhead. WoWhead will pretty much be able to tell you specifically how to complete every quest in the game. This is completely beyond the developer's control.

    LFG/LFR:
    1. This is the cancer of mmo. This _thing_ takes so much out of the game. Again... social aspect: I tought mmo games are social but no...not now days. The crossrealm shit. Once the instance is done you will never see those guys again.
    Adventure: ???...Remember when you needed to run and things happened when you were heading to the dungeon? Imo this is one part of the World PVP. But NOPE not anymore. just teleport us instantly in the dungeons so we dont need to do shit.

    2. Ppl who are not putting effort or time into the game should NOT see the same content than the guys who do that.


    Like wtf? Are the mmo games now just autopilot games where ppl yell "RUSH TO THE END" "faaaast i want this now without talking to anyone in the game cause i pay for this".
    Where are the old days social experiences and that adventure feeling? its all gone.

    Game makers pls...stop following the current META of mmo games.

    I have spoken.
    LFG/LFR is a mixed bag. On one hand, it supports a crowd that would otherwise not be compatible with MMO's. Not everyone wants to dedicate 10-30 hours a week learning strats and progressing. On the other hand, it's primary tenents are anathema to some core MMO aspects, like socializing and networking.


    The bottem line, good or bad, is keeping subs. The more crowds you can appeal to, including hardcore and casual and everyone in between, the more likely people are going to stick around. You're going to find derps in games with a high barrier and you're going to find elite players among the most casual of people; people play this game for different reasons, and in order for an MMO to really succeed on the level wow is, they need to appeal to a lot of different skill levels.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by sheepra View Post
    How can you compare things that makes your living easier to the game that should be fun? that has nothing to do with the fact that the game is now just autopilotrush and extremely boring?

    ur argument goes like this: Some angry casual is asking "why we have to travel now so much in wow?" "well listen dude, the ppl like to travel now irl more and more"
    I am trying to take your language barrier into consideration. Let me simplify things. My comparison was:

    The Older and Longer Way vs The Newer and Faster Way

    It has nothing to do with real life. The game has been tweaked to be faster to accommodate for people's play schedules. Players like myself no longer have 30+ hours a week we can dedicate to a game simply because Blizz wanted to drag out content. Back in TBC, you would spend WEEKS trying to kill the 2nd boss in a raid, and a new Tier would drop. Some content was skipped just because it took so long. Now, most bosses may still take a few weeks, but it is 2 weeks, not 14 weeks.

    I understand the need to make things challenging, which is why Heroics were born into the game. Not everyone liked the grinding experience that hardcores labeled as a "challenge". Some players just want to play the game, and experience the content. This is not life or death for us. Most of us likely play more games than just WoW, but WoW is likely the only Sub game. We no longer spend every waking minute grinding this game

    I get it, you hate that things have become streamlined and easy. This is just the way it is. Think about how grindy things were in TBC, compared to now. I don't miss ANYTHING they took away from us. Reagents, ammo, quivers, mounts at 40 instead of 20, etc. Almost everything in the last 3 expansions has been to benefit us and make our lives easier. If you are unhappy about having things easy, maybe it is time for a new game. Things will only continue to get easier.

    We are getting Player Housing, new models, new racials, and more. If you cannot change with the game, it is time to change games.

  11. #51
    How about you stop using "cancer" to label anything that the subjective you thinks is bad.

  12. #52
    Immortal Winter Blossom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primernova View Post
    The 'new' WoW player, doesn't understand what they are missing.

    And, they don't even kind of understand why.

    A fun and challenging game = Elitists win, to them. Making time, learning my class/role and having some empathy for others? What does that even mean???
    I agree completely with you.

  13. #53
    Ah the great and glorious past. Let's stop and consider that for a moment.

    It certainly was great, if you actually had friends and a guild online that would help you. I distinctly remember the days of trying for hours to find a group to do a dungeon only for it to fall apart within minutes of starting if you were lucky enough to get that far. I remember asking a question and getting no answer, and generally being ignored by the more experienced players.

    So yeah. Keep the old days because for a lot of us they sucked.
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  14. #54
    Pandaren Monk Rizendragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Perry Cox View Post
    We are getting Player Housing, new models, new racials, and more. If you cannot change with the game, it is time to change games.
    I find this line quite ironic after the post you just typed out. The changes have been in your favor so it's ok for you to tell him to leave but he's wrong for telling you to leave because your time has become limited?

    IMO in this game you either need to make time or fall behind. Not every random Joe should be allowed to see content just because they paid, but that is why we have heroic modes. I agree with removing the random group finders, but it won't happen

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bayushisan View Post
    Ah the great and glorious past. Let's stop and consider that for a moment.

    It certainly was great, if you actually had friends and a guild online that would help you. I distinctly remember the days of trying for hours to find a group to do a dungeon only for it to fall apart within minutes of starting if you were lucky enough to get that far. I remember asking a question and getting no answer, and generally being ignored by the more experienced players.

    So yeah. Keep the old days because for a lot of us they sucked.
    The "old days" weren't 2010. Prior to Wrath the community actually wasn't that bad. Trolls were chased out, griefers and ninjas got a rep and were forced to change or re-roll. This happened up and until the LFD was introduced. After that everything went to hell...
    Originally Posted by Bashiok
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizendragon View Post
    I find this line quite ironic after the post you just typed out. The changes have been in your favor so it's ok for you to tell him to leave but he's wrong for telling you to leave because your time has become limited?

    IMO in this game you either need to make time or fall behind. Not every random Joe should be allowed to see content just because they paid, but that is why we have heroic modes. I agree with removing the random group finders, but it won't happen
    Having limited play time is not the same as hating what the game has become. If I can only play a few hours a week, it is my own issue and I will gladly work around my timeframe to make room for a game I enjoy. When I stop enjoying it, it is already past time for me to move on. I admit, it could be phrased more clearly, but the underlying message is the point:

    When a game ceases to be fun, rather than ruin it for people who still enjoy it, maybe moving on to something more suited to your needs is the answer. I grew tired of the Mario series after 10 years. Rather than bitching at Nintendo and calling everyone who still loves the game an idiot, I moved away from Nintendo to XBox 360, and picked up a whole new style of gaming, including Kinect.

    Just like in life, sometimes marriage doesn't work out. Do you keep fighting? Do you try to work things out? Do you just move on? Same thing with WoW. You can shout at Blizz and other gamers all day long, but if they are happy with the game as it stands, and they show no intent of changing the direction in which they are moving, it is either time to move in the same direction, or part ways.

    Not being mean, just stating a basic fundamental truth which eludes most people.

  16. #56
    Scarab Lord Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milkwolfgang View Post
    Such secrecy. Spill the beans gurl! :P
    At a guess, knowing several MMOs are over 1million subs.

    Final Fantasy XIV - New highly popular, not your normal MMO crowd, so it would be missed by WOW players.
    The Elder Scrolls Online - Which came out this last weekend should have sold at least that many copies.
    Wildstar Online - Not out yet, has several million Pre-orders already.
    Aion - Which is still well over 1 million Subs.
    Lineage 2 - Still over a million subs.

    --

    I should also point out three of those games are more popular in Asia than the 'West', one of them is not out yet, and one just came out so lets see in 3 months if the subs go up or down.

    --
    To the OP, play a different game if you dislike LFR, and quest tracking. Mean while most other people are just fine with these things. If you think the social aspect of the game is dieing in WOW, just remember the game is 9 years old, most people have a set of friends they play with, if this set of friends moves on, it is less likely you'll meet knew people to socialize with. That is human nature and not because of any in game mechanic. The solution is play a new game, and team up. Best way to find a new group of friends.

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