1. #2901
    I would really really like him to play Aff lock in a dungeon envoirment, its so awkward with SS costing 1 shard.
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

  2. #2902
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    It really comes down to which playerbase is going to be the most active/vocal about bad stuff. I would argue that DKs have been a lot more collective and vocal about concerns. Warlock discussion has come down to myself and a couple others driving almost all of it and pretty much discussing amongst ourselves. And I'm not even a Warlock main.

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    Survival mechanics radically changed with a fluid and widely loved playstyle being devolved into an incredibly choppy and jarring mess.
    Marksmanship stripped to total barebones without any rebuilding like Arms was. It's near a two button rotation with talent options being nothing but cooldown fire and forgets or passives with zero gameplay interaction.
    Beast Mastery design untouched, leaving it as a jack of all trades and master of all while the other two specs have been designed to have more niche strengths.
    Some of the most boring talent options for any class.

    There's plenty of issues for a bunch of classes but Hunters have been one of the most vocally disgruntled classes this cycle because two of their specs have been totally and completely butchered.

    edit: Also note that there's been more vocalness about the state of Hunters coming from Hunters towards the top of the chain as well. Your Warlock class heroes have been staying near silent on the problems and have done fuck all when it comes to giving feedback and discussion. These are often the people who help drive discussions or draw more attention to problems and they've been nonexistent on both Twitter and feedback forums.
    I totally understand where you're coming from Bullet, but for me this is indicative of the problem with Blizzard. They SHOULD be testing EVERY spec themselves and not leaving it to just the theorycrafters for most while they test or play-test which one won by the most number of votes. It's their product, they should be concerned with every last one of them as well they should be willing to test every last spec in the content they expect others to have to trudge through in any of the available specs, for the simple reason of quality control. When they sit there and speak to posters as they do and then even go so far as to say they have their internal numbers (Which conveniently never get released to us) and use that as a reason against following community suggestions, I have to think that quality control is one of the last things on any of their minds.

    I mean, do we really think as a Warlock community that Xelnath wouldn't have been able to recognize the issue we pose with losing Fel Flame? Yet, Celestalon apparently can't see it period? I find it ridiculous that they don't have someone who's paid to actually be an expert (to whatever degree that means within reason) on every single class and spec. Sure, they can main whatever they want on their own personal time, but for the sake of their work and position, class expertise should be a given, especially when they change the playstyle every couple of years.

    For me to sit here and think, oh it's OUR fault that OUR grievances aren't being addressed and not theirs is ludicrous. It also shifts the blame from them to us. Oh, well if YOU had been more vocal in Beta... I'm sorry, the issue(s) have been cited, it's Blizzard who has failed to address. I refuse to take the blame on this because I don't have a beta-key. There's too many hurdles and obstacles for class feedback representation to be equal. One class is surely going to surpass another in terms of feedback because of the model we have for testing. This is why I say it's ridiculous that they don't have class experts themselves that can immediately (or within a very short timeframe) address an issue raised by not only someone who's qualified to be a theorycrafter, but by the average Joe warlock or someone trying out the class for the very first time.
    Last edited by Orkokhan; Yesterday at 10:09 PM.

  3. #2903
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orkokhan View Post
    I totally understand where you're coming from Bullet, but for me this is indicative of the problem with Blizzard. They SHOULD be testing EVERY spec themselves and not leaving it to just the theorycrafters for most while they test or play-test which one won by the most number of votes.
    They do test every spec themselves. This was a poll for a Blizzard employ to have fun playing a certain class for a beta community event. It was not and never has been a poll to decide what class to test. The notion that Blizzard doesn't play all of the classes for testing purposes has always been a silly one and I never understood why it gains so much traction.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  4. #2904
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They do test every spec themselves. This was a poll for a Blizzard employ to have fun playing a certain class for a beta community event. It was not and never has been a poll to decide what class to test. The notion that Blizzard doesn't play all of the classes for testing purposes has always been a silly one and I never understood why it gains so much traction.
    Ok, if it's so then it's so. So then why is it that the community's feedback on issues like Fel Flame and Affliction's issues have seemingly been quashed or ignored or dismissed? Where are the detailed responses from them? Why don't I see something like: Ok I saw that the loss of Fel Flame has caused concern for the PVP Warlock community and here is a result of my testing; I did an RBG with a comp of X-Y-Z-A-B-C-D-E-F-G and had specific classes (melee) train me so that I could see how a Warlock would feel while being trained due to the changes we made to them, as well as the things we didn't change for melee and here is what I found.... why do we not see this type of reverse feedback? Address the ISSUE at a micro level and explain how it's to be dealt with. Because you know that the hardcore Warlock PVP'er is thinking this and wants to know how they will play in the worst case scenario, not in the perfect scenario where teammate A is constantly peeling for the lock so he doesn't have to sit on Conflage charges or run OOM from casting ROF while moving, all-the-time.

    Stuff like that is what I expect to see. Stress test the shizzle out of that spec and provide us the results so we can not only see that you did, but that we might then be able to replicate that test and see what results we get too?

  5. #2905
    Quote Originally Posted by Orkokhan View Post
    ... Because you know that the hardcore Warlock PVP'er is thinking this and wants to know how they will play in the worst case scenario, not in the perfect scenario where teammate A is constantly peeling for the lock so he doesn't have to sit on Conflage charges or run OOM from casting ROF while moving, all-the-time.

    Stuff like that is what I expect to see. Stress test the shizzle out of that spec and provide us the results so we can not only see that you did, but that we might then be able to replicate that test and see what results we get too?
    This is what I was getting at. Having some internal people testing the classes is one thing, but this event would draw a bit more attention to some of the problems with a spec that I feel has not gotten the attention it needs due to the "we didn't change warlocks much so they must still be fine" fallacy.

  6. #2906
    If they don't know the spec it won't feel 'wrong' to them, and any issues wont be immediately obvious to them. It's kind of a pointless exercise if you're trying to make an example of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime

    edit: Also note that there's been more vocalness about the state of Hunters coming from Hunters towards the top of the chain as well. Your Warlock class heroes have been staying near silent on the problems and have done fuck all when it comes to giving feedback and discussion. These are often the people who help drive discussions or draw more attention to problems and they've been nonexistent on both Twitter and feedback forums.
    Mhm I think zinnin's been pretty conspicuous by his quietness, guess he's just got other stuff on. But even so it does strike me that a lot of the "proper" numbers folks pretty much solve the "rotation equation" but don't tend to ask if how they got there was intended. That disappoints me most because that's exactly how you end up with weird unintended mechanics that take 2 years to fix.

  7. #2907
    Quote Originally Posted by collinsurvive View Post
    Wait, you're concerned with movement speed when you're not even currently using the movement speed boot enchant?
    Can we stop the personal attacks and stop assuming we know everything about someone by just looking at the armory once and/or a few warcraftlog parses?

  8. #2908
    Quote Originally Posted by Silmarieni View Post
    Can we stop the personal attacks and stop assuming we know everything about someone by just looking at the armory once and/or a few warcraftlog parses?
    Have they even said anything about fel flame or what were supposed to cast while moving???

    For as much time money and effort we put into this recreational game/sport they could at least spend 30 seconds to write a post about why fel flame is gone. Its absolutely ridiculous and im not going to stop posting until its fixed. Everyday i will be checking and posting until they give us back warlocks.

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