WoD Death Knight Changes

[Maxweii]

Also seeing as if you have a problem with sonething you are much much more likely to give feedback about it, it gives the community a skewed view on things.

[RuneDK]

Sorry, but i'm not having this bollocks about Fury. Seen lots of responses liking the changes, because they don't like pooling gameplay etc. Lots of Warriors support this, it's not all one sided. Yes it's a big change at this point, and yes a lot of people won't like it, but that's that. They outlined why they were doing it, and yes it's Blizzards game, and they do what the fuck they want with it. Quite sick of people posting with crap like ' oh they don't listen to personal feedback, they just do what THEY want to do'. Of course they bloody do, and generally always have done. Players assist development, not drive it.

Then they should stop asking for player feedback entirely when it comes to classes. If you're sick of hearing/reading it then ignore it. The shitstorm in terms of changing gameplay so dramatically is the highest ive seen during any beta for a wow expansion.

Either way, they ask for player feedback and then ignore it. It is their game yes and they can choose to do what they wish and that is perfectly fine, however don't say you value your customers feedback and encourage people to give some feedback then have it fall on deaf ears. That is entirely the problem. However they only have listened and replied to feedback that has fit their agenda. Look at Mendenbarr(appreciate everything yo do so don't take this as a cross towards you bud), he is a "high profile" player who is encouraging the new frost design...He got GREAT feedback and responses from Celestalon. Yet people like Slant have great constructive posts deleted because it wasn't in favor of their agenda. That is just shady practice period. Blizz can do what they want with their game, but they can't expect people to continue to follow them blindly anymore. They probably won't ever hit 10m subs ever again, they need to try to retain what they have. The game has a lot of reasons why they aren't getting new players they just don't look past the excuse of the game is too convoluted....When reality is this has always been the casual MMO even when it was "hardcore" in Vanilla/TBC.

[Schizoide]

I can't speak to how it will impact subscriptions, one way or the other. I can't speak to whether these changes are positive or negative for the game as a whole. I don't have that 10,000 foot view. All I can say is that I personally don't enjoy them.

Oh, and that they don't accomplish any of the things they were intended to do. Frost still ignores KM and avoids haste. But maybe the changes in today's beta patch will fix that stuff.

[Satori]

NVM. Warrior discussion.

[RuneDK]

I can't speak to how it will impact subscriptions, one way or the other. I can't speak to whether these changes are positive or negative for the game as a whole. I don't have that 10,000 foot view. All I can say is that I personally don't enjoy them.

Oh, and that they don't accomplish any of the things they were intended to do. Frost still ignores KM and avoids haste. But maybe the changes in today's beta patch will fix that stuff.

The game is on it's back 9, if you can't acknowledge that much then I personally don't know what to tell you. I just see no reason for the game to hit 10 million subscribers. I could be very wrong, but I think they will continually spiral downwards in subs during this expansion(after the new expansion interest wears off). It's not due to anything Blizzard is actually in control of. Wow has been out for 10 years, and there are a TON of quality choices that people are playing for free that are much newer games and are just as high quality in terms of game play.

[Sarkol]

Then they should stop asking for player feedback entirely when it comes to classes. If you're sick of hearing/reading it then ignore it. The shitstorm in terms of changing gameplay so dramatically is the highest ive seen during any beta for a wow expansion.

Either way, they ask for player feedback and then ignore it. It is their game yes and they can choose to do what they wish and that is perfectly fine, however don't say you value your customers feedback and encourage people to give some feedback then have it fall on deaf ears. That is entirely the problem. However they only have listened and replied to feedback that has fit their agenda. Look at Mendenbarr(appreciate everything yo do so don't take this as a cross towards you bud), he is a "high profile" player who is encouraging the new frost design...He got GREAT feedback and responses from Celestalon. Yet people like Slant have great constructive posts deleted because it wasn't in favor of their agenda. That is just shady practice period. Blizz can do what they want with their game, but they can't expect people to continue to follow them blindly anymore. They probably won't ever hit 10m subs ever again, they need to try to retain what they have. The game has a lot of reasons why they aren't getting new players they just don't look past the excuse of the game is too convoluted....When reality is this has always been the casual MMO even when it was "hardcore" in Vanilla/TBC.

Again, i think players expect their feedback to be handled differently to reality. Deleting threads is indeed poor if that happened for silencing feedback, but regardless of that, players don't have a lead developer role via feedback. Blizzard has changed classes many times in the past due to players, but i don't think they've ever redesigned an entire class because of it. I'm not really affected at all apart from' Oh, this again'. I think feedbakc is valuable to help blizzard, and bring up issues and suggested changes. That does not mean the class will be designed to your liking.

I'd like to know your definition for 'ignoring' feedback. Ignoring is not reading it. I'd assume they do. Ignoring ISN'T your feedback not making it's way into the game.

[Trubo]

I don't personally enjoy 5.4 Fury gameplay. I don't like pooling resources to use them during Colossus Smash. I much prefer the new version! But all the people that played fury for years now, they did enjoy that, and their preferences should be respected. They put in their time. Alienating those long-time players is crazy, not to mention counter-productive.

Same as Frost.

The problem with finally removing CS is that there's no reason for any of the previous changes to Fury. Only times Rage pooling ever mattered were for Execute back when it benefited from extra Rage -> damage and, more recently, CS.

But I'll leave this at that since Warrior discussion should take place in the Warrior thread, not the DK thread.

Again, i think players expect their feedback to be handled differently to reality. Deleting threads is indeed poor if that happened for silencing feedback, but regardless of that, players don't have a lead developer role via feedback. Blizzard has changed classes many times in the past due to players, but i don't think they've ever redesigned an entire class because of it. I'm not really affected at all apart from' Oh, this again'. I think feedbakc is valuable to help blizzard, and bring up issues and suggested changes. That does not mean the class will be designed to your liking.

I'd like to know your definition for 'ignoring' feedback. Ignoring is not reading it. I'd assume they do. Ignoring ISN'T your feedback making it's way into the game.

MoP Warlock says hi. As for the ignoring part, it certainly feels that way when the first person Celestalon re-tweeted as to supporting the WS and HS changes was some random guy who mained a Resto Shaman and only played Warrior as a third alt. Then there's the whole spiel about willing to participate in civil discussion before afking from the forums/twitter for a month, but at least we know he enjoys smoothies and Destiny.

Say what you will about Ghostscrawler but he certainly was more willing to speak to the playerbase than Celestalon is.

[Sarkol]

The problem with finally removing CS is that there's no reason for any of the previous changes to Fury. Only times Rage pooling ever mattered were for Execute back when it benefited from extra Rage -> damage and, more recently, CS.

But I'll leave this at that since Warrior discussion should take place in the Warrior thread, not the DK thread.



MoP Warlock says hi

Were Warlocks due to player feedback? If they were i'm not aware. Regardless, even if players wanted a niche design for Locks, Blizzard still designed basically all of it, not the players, although i'm sure players contributed on a smaller scale. This is how it's always played out imo, not more than that.

[Trubo]

Were Warlocks due to player feedback? If they were i'm not aware. Regardless, even if players wanted a niche design for Locks, Blizzard still designed basically all of it, not the players, although i'm sure players contributed on a smaller scale. This is how it's always played out imo, not more than that.

Blizzard basically gave some of the top Warlocks a free hand to design the class as they saw fit for MoP. I won't be able to speak in greater detail than that as I didn't pay much attention to Warlock during MoP but I'm sure someone else can clarify the matter.

[Schizoide]

MoP warlocks were awesome. All those gameplay changes were great.

Obviously the numbers were tuned too high, but the gameplay was positive.

[Sarkol]

Bottom line is, i see a lot of players who think they should be the ones designing the game, and not Blizzard. Blizzard needs a template ,and their own way. Players will assist them, and that's that. No need to get angry when a specific change doesn't come. No need to scream 'ignored!' because you didn't get what you want.

On another note all this class design and discussion is filled with grass is greener syndrome. I'll see Dks unhappy and say they're rolling x class, when on x classes forum they're all upset about something or other, and threatening to reroll to y, whose current players hate it.. Ah, the life of a WoW forum .

Dno why i write these posts. :P

[Schizoide]

Dno why i write these posts. :P

You have a superiority complex.

I was in previous betas. This beta isn't like previous betas. This one is much worse. Obviously just my opinion, just like yours is yours.

[psyquest]

Please post about warrior stuff on the warrior forum. Leave this thread for DK changes in wod.

[Sarkol]

You have a superiority complex.

I was in previous betas. This beta isn't like previous betas. This one is much worse. Obviously just my opinion, just like yours is yours.

Not sure how i have one of those. Not subscribing to the general way of the forums isn't a superiority complex. Maybe this beta is worse, it's still irrational repeating the same complaints for months on end, when most are unfounded.

[Stacie]

Please post about warrior stuff on the warrior forum. Leave this thread for DK changes in wod.

Yeah tbh we already know Warriors will be superior (better cooldowns, mobility, damage and less downtime and all that.)

[Tyrean]

And yet they're not sharing that overall vision which is intensely frustrating as I could at least see their perspective if they'd just go ahead and share it.

They can't share what they don't know. There is no vision for the DK, just bandaid fixes. It is painfully obvious that they have no clue and are happy to just make it work well enough to not be at the bottom.

[Challenge]

Sorry, but i'm not having this bollocks about Fury. Seen lots of responses liking the changes, because they don't like pooling gameplay etc. Lots of Warriors support this, it's not all one sided. Yes it's a big change at this point, and yes a lot of people won't like it, but that's that. They outlined why they were doing it, and yes it's Blizzards game, and they do what the fuck they want with it. Quite sick of people posting with crap like ' oh they don't listen to personal feedback, they just do what THEY want to do'. Of course they bloody do, and generally always have done. Players assist development, not drive it.

There should be an IQ requirement to post on the forums.

[Kokeless]

There should be an IQ requirement to post on the forums.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them stupid.

And there are a lot of "bad" decisions made by Blizzard but to point at every one that (you) personally do not like and say that (everyone) will hate it isn't true.

Having all three warrior DPS specs placing so much emphasis on CS is bad design, and if people liked the pooling gameplay, just like they stated, its there in the other specs.


Make fury something different.

[blasterion]

While the new Blood Boil nerf is kind of much needed and the Fallen Crusader buff will help offset the loss of damage, This leaves Blood DPS very much in shambles, I really would like to retain my open world game play as blood, As a blood DK, without a normal influx of resolve in solo contents, Even mobs in Tanaan jungle are hitting hard, not to mention ogres in Nagrand, We have very poor survivability, especially compared to Bears and Warrior that rely on innate damage reduction. With out dps gutted, we truely have no place in the open world.

[Challenge]

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them stupid.

And there are a lot of "bad" decisions made by Blizzard but to point at every one that (you) personally do not like and say that (everyone) will hate it isn't true.

Having all three warrior DPS specs placing so much emphasis on CS is bad design, and if people liked the pooling gameplay, just like they stated, its there in the other specs.


Make fury something different.

I don't really care what happens to warriors because I don't main one and have no intention to. If I ever lose an entire arm and can only play with a one button macro I may reconsider it.