1. #3441
    The long-term solution to all the Haste problems will be a variable GCD just like what they are implementing for Warriors. All non-energy melee specs should use this system. Once that is in place, more flavor could be added across the board.

    Here is what I'm thinking: Each spec's GCD would be lowered through haste at differing amounts. A Frost DK or a Fury Warrior for example, would be able to reach a 1 sec gcd by the end of an expansion if you actively gun for haste. But maybe a Unholy DK or Arms Warrior could only reach the 1.2-1.25 range. This would go a long way towards making each spec feel different.

  2. #3442
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    /facepalm

    And this, ladies and gents, is why the rune regen tier will not be fixed.
    I was hoping he was trolling.

  3. #3443
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    The long-term solution to all the Haste problems will be a variable GCD just like what they are implementing for Warriors.
    Allowing our ability to spend resources to scale at the same rate as our resource generation would certainly be a valid solution.

  4. #3444
    GCD and all cooldowns scaling with haste would work, yes. And it just makes so much sense.

  5. #3445
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    Allowing our ability to spend resources to scale at the same rate as our resource generation would certainly be a valid solution.
    Absolutely. There would be no more feast or famine.

  6. #3446
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    GCD and all cooldowns scaling with haste would work, yes. And it just makes so much sense.
    This worked so beautifully for paladins, and kept haste valuable all the way up till ~40%, that I am really amazed they haven't done this across the board. Of course their answer is going to be "but your resource system is already affected by haste", at which point all knowledgeable/experienced DK's collectively slam their faces into their palms.

  7. #3447
    I am at a point of my life where I think that Blizzard should rethink the whole Disease Mechanic.

    For Blood, it is just another means to keep some AOE Aggro and a Debuff up, but since they are made to spam an AOE anyway now, there is no point in them having a Disease anymore. Frost has always been designed and balanced around the fact that they have to keep up Blood Plaque even though that skill doesn't fit to the theme of that spec nor is it an interesting aspect gameplay wise. Unholy is a Spec that has a focus on Diseases, yet it hardly delivers on that. I am also saying/thinking that having two diseases, one of them not really fitting into the theme is counterintuitive.

    I like the design of the Level 100 Talent Necrotic Plaque, but in my eyes, that one should be baseline for Unholy. Make it the only Disease Unholy DKs have but give them more Ability/Synergy between their abilitys and Diseases. For example, Scourge Strike, instead of doing bonus damage to diseased Targets should just trigger one (or even two ticks for fun and chills) of Necrotic Plaque whenever you activate it, thus creating a nice interaction between the skills.

    Talking about Talents. I know this is a very blant comment, but they should just redo that mess. Entirely.

  8. #3448
    Quote Originally Posted by ryudaraku View Post
    If only there were some sort of mechanic that haste could be made valuable beyond just resources so that is still provides a benefit at GDC cap.

    *Cough Windfury and Poisons Cough*
    This is why I have been hoping that they would improve Razorice... :-/

  9. #3449
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Is "envaluing" a word? Anyway, I digress.

    The devs tried something similar with WW monks, increasing Jab's cost by 25%. This was done to stop GCD-capping. It resulted in >30% time spent waiting on resources, and WW monks are pissed off beyond belief. And the thing is, it's not even the right solution-- if WW values haste, it'll GCD-cap later on anyway.

    The right solution is to flatten the curve of haste's impact on resource generation so it provides more resources at low patch 6.0 gear levels and much less at end of expansion 6.4 gear levels. This applies to every resource-constrained spec.

    The alternative is to change-up gameplay to such an extent that players revolt in patch 6.0, with >30% wait times, like WW and Blood have now. These players are unhappy. And they'll GCD-cap before the expansion is over anyway. They're upsetting customers and not even fixing the problem!
    30RP FS is not intended to fix haste, it's supposed to fix the feedback loop for frost. This way FS triggers our rune regen talents at the same rate as all other RP-spenders, making Conversion or BoS less punishing to use (as well as everything else that costs RP). The fact that it helps with haste is just a added benefit. Of course it won't solve the haste issue, but it would require more haste to become gcd-locked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    The long-term solution to all the Haste problems will be a variable GCD just like what they are implementing for Warriors. All non-energy melee specs should use this system. Once that is in place, more flavor could be added across the board.
    That would help in keeping haste valuable. It wouldn't help with pooling resources, but if that's not intended for DKs that'd be fine by me. But something has to be done to fix haste, and a variable gcd would do just that.

    (Actually, a variable gcd wouldn't do anything for DKs on its own, since DKs already are at a 1s gcd, but at low haste levels a 1.5s gcd would make the way lower base resource regeneration that would have to come with the variable gcd less noticable. After all, having just enough resources to be gcd-locked on a 1.5s gcd equals about 50% downtime on a 1s gcd, which is terrible. So the scaling gcd doesn't actually solve haste scaling, but it allows for a lower base rune regen without it feeling horrible)
    Last edited by mmoc16149473f9; 2014-07-29 at 06:24 AM.

  10. #3450
    Deleted
    Quick question:

    Does Gargoyle scale with this?

    Item - Death Knight WoD PvP Unholy 4P Bonus (New) When you activate Dark Transformation, you gain the Death Dealer effect. Death Dealer increases Shadow damage dealt by 20% for 15 sec.
    Last edited by mmoc7f25e17046; 2014-07-29 at 09:24 AM.

  11. #3451
    Quote Originally Posted by Vholu View Post
    Quick question:

    Does Gargoyle scale with this?

    Item - Death Knight WoD PvP Unholy 4P Bonus (New) When you activate Dark Transformation, you gain the Death Dealer effect. Death Dealer increases Shadow damage dealt by 20% for 15 sec.
    Not positive but I believe I read somewhere that it does indeed, although I haven't personally tested so its just hearsay at this point. Anyone out there tested?

    If that set piece stays.. its incredibly powerful.

  12. #3452
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by scabobos View Post
    If that set piece stays.. its incredibly powerful.
    Not only powerful, also interesting gameplay in PvP I might add. I missed timing my DT for damage for years now. I'd be glad to see it come back.

  13. #3453
    I've been mainly pvping lately, almost got my arena master. And just my opinion I think that the pvp 4p is not great. I mean it does stop the gameplay from just yoloing off bat with gargoyle if you want maximum damage, but getting off dark transformation at low ilvls (even in general because of less death coils due to conversion) is a pretty large pain.

    I would rather the set bonus be something like you can activate it at 3 stacks. I have no problem with the cast not actually changing anything. They should just move more relative damage into the pet.

  14. #3454
    Deleted
    Maybe, I've done quite a bit of PvP myself and I see myself liking this a lot when playing dotcleaves, for example. In scenarios where the first gargoyle doesn't really kill anything and is only there to draw some early cooldowns to make dots apply more pressure later on, and then timing it with the second for even stronger dots as they don't snapshot any longer. You have three minutes then to make it line up, mentionned pain is minimal.

    I can see it being not too good in TSG style comps, but anything shifting my meta away from TSG is good in my book

    On a sidenote: I really think we should have spec specific beta threads =/
    Last edited by mmoc7f25e17046; 2014-07-29 at 04:15 PM.

  15. #3455
    Quote Originally Posted by Vholu View Post
    Maybe, I've done quite a bit of PvP myself and I see myself liking this a lot when playing dotcleaves, for example. In scenarios where the first gargoyle doesn't really kill anything and is only there to draw some early cooldowns to make dots apply more pressure later on, and then timing it with the second for even stronger dots as they don't snapshot any longer. You have three minutes then to make it line up, mentionned pain is minimal.

    I can see it being not too good in TSG style comps, but anything shifting my meta away from TSG is good in my book

    On a sidenote: I really think we should have spec specific beta threads =/
    Problem with that is if we started it would they close the threads due to this one?

  16. #3456
    No real need for spec specific threads considering we have so few changes to 2/3 of our specs. Not like were Warriors where all specs got changed, which warrants it

  17. #3457
    Deleted
    It just feels all cluttered with everything jumping between specs and ongoing conversations about something getting swallowed by another discussion sparked by some question on the side.

  18. #3458
    I think blood, pvp, and dps should have separate threads personally.

  19. #3459
    Quote Originally Posted by Vholu View Post
    It just feels all cluttered with everything jumping between specs and ongoing conversations about something getting swallowed by another discussion sparked by some question on the side.
    Thus is the nature of the thread. Half of the posts in the last 75 pages or so are just repetitive questions and discussions of the same thing from the past few pages, so if you think that stuff is getting missed due to the flow of things blame that. In general the topic is usually fairly focused and able to switch between specs or such easily though, so no need for split threads. Would just make discussing things as a whole a pain

  20. #3460
    What would we talk about if random people didn't bring up blood being slow, how super important it was to pay attention to Killing Machine, and how awesome the rune regen talents are every 2-3 pages?

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