Rogue 6.0 patch notes

[Wow]

I like that they nerfed the combat mastery and buffed strikes but buff backstab and nerf hemo what? So they want to make the positional a bigger issue for sub?

[Feali]

Those Rouge set bonus nerfs... Bye Bye Sub..

Item - Rogue T17 Subtlety 2P Bonus While Shadow Dance is active, your abilities cost no Energy. When you activate Shadow Dance, you gain 60 Energy.
Item - Rogue T17 Subtlety 4P Bonus For 5 sec after Shadow Dance ends, your finishing moves will refund 5 combo points. When Shadow Dance expires, your next finishing move refunds 5 combo points.

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I like that they nerfed the combat mastery and buffed strikes but buff backstab and nerf hemo what? So they want to make the positional a bigger issue for sub?

They have NO FUCKING IDEA what they're doing.

[fierydemise]

Change summary:
1) Blizzard fixed the combat weapon screwiness. Yay Blizzard.
2) Big hemo nerfs and small backstab buffs. Since everyone loves positional requirements...
3) Lots of set bonus tuning changes, the sub bonuses went from probably overpowered to probably not very good.

[Feali]

Change summary:
1) Blizzard fixed the combat weapon screwiness. Yay Blizzard.
2) Big hemo nerfs and small backstab buffs. Since everyone loves positional requirements...
3) Lots of set bonus tuning changes, the sub bonuses went from probably overpowered to probably not very good.

I just don't understand the reasoning behind the Backstab and Hemo change. Now soloplay sucks even more. Seems like I will be leveling Assassination instead... Bummer I was actually having fun so far.

[fierydemise]

I just don't understand the reasoning behind the Backstab and Hemo change. Now soloplay sucks even more. Seems like I will be leveling Assassination instead... Bummer I was actually having fun so far.

I think Blizzard wants to kill hemo-weaving (that is traditional 1-hemo weaving that sub has been doing for 2 expansions now) dead although I'm not entirely sure why. Hemo-weaving seems to fit in their 2 cp builder model for most specs.

I vaguely remember Blizzard early on in beta mentioning their goal was to reduce the gap between backstab and hemo to make keeping positional requirements more palatable. Anyone have a link to them saying that?

[Wow]

I think Blizzard wants to kill hemo-weaving (that is traditional 1-hemo weaving that sub has been doing for 2 expansions now) dead although I'm not entirely sure why. Hemo-weaving seems to fit in their 2 cp builder model for most specs.

Then why nerf the direct dmg and not just nerf the dot that now has nothing to do with the direct dmg.

[Feali]

I'm just scared I have to play Combat again...

[fierydemise]

Then why nerf the direct dmg and not just nerf the dot that now has nothing to do with the direct dmg.

They could have nerfed the dot and taken us back to the days of 1 damage hemo ticks. I really don't get this change at all.

When I get home from work I'm rerunning a simulation of 100% hemo vs. 100% BS, curious to see where it ends up now.

[Linneth]

Assassination and Combat Set Bonus changes seem quite reasonable.

They also seem to have some kind of fetish about Subtely being completely unplayable in PvE, as they have drastically increased the gap between Hemo and Backstab and they have gutted its set bonuses.

[Artorius]

Sub was doing better even without the set bonus Nalira, we still have some hope.

[fierydemise]

Found at least one of the tweets I was thinking of.
https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...56189708595200

"The skill difference between players will easily overshadow the miniscule difference between front and side/back. Sub is *hard*."

This doesn't seem "minuscule"

[Feali]

I'm at the state of begging now... Back to Rygarius since Celestalon just stopped responding completely.

Sub was doing better even without the set bonus Nalira, we still have some hope.

They probably just looked at this (which is still using Shadow Focus for Sub?) and buffed warriors

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...M-9-23-14.html

Also: our signature is pretty much back to Haste now with the Combat changes.

[Kael]

Unless the patch notes I looked at were extremely misleading, the bleed practically IS back at the 1 damage tick level. Something on the order of, at 1000 AP with a 0 damage weapon, hemo would hit for 307 (bleed included) and backstab for 850. That scaling should hold true (even if I've got the wrong AP to wDPS and normalized weapon speed) - and gets worse as weapon damage is > 0. If they mean that hemo with a dagger hits for 80% wDPS rather than 56% wDPS, it's a little better. If that's 3.5% AP per tick, it's much better than it reads now. If it is as it reads, I don't see how you'll ever press hemo again.

[fierydemise]

Another tweet on the backstab vs. hemo balancing game.

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...46828436193280
"Because it's a small DPS difference that you can opt into. Fits Subtlety's theme. Shouldn't be usable on something attacking you."

[Sesshou]

I think Blizzard wants to kill hemo-weaving (that is traditional 1-hemo weaving that sub has been doing for 2 expansions now) dead although I'm not entirely sure why. Hemo-weaving seems to fit in their 2 cp builder model for most specs.

I vaguely remember Blizzard early on in beta mentioning their goal was to reduce the gap between backstab and hemo to make keeping positional requirements more palatable. Anyone have a link to them saying that?

Why put hemo ticks along with rupture with blade twisting (or whatever the multi strike on backstab/ambush is called) then? Honestly, I want hemo to be in the rotation if for nothing else but to make sure I still have SV if I want to (or accidentally) let my rupture drop for a second.

[threads]

Change summary:
1) Blizzard fixed the combat weapon screwiness. Yay Blizzard.
2) Big hemo nerfs and small backstab buffs. Since everyone loves positional requirements...
3) Lots of set bonus tuning changes, the sub bonuses went from probably overpowered to probably not very good.

I know the sub bonus felt kind of OP but it was so fun

[Artorius]

Also: our signature is pretty much back to Haste now with the Combat changes.

And the legendary ghostcrawler quote remains true, how iconic!

[Feali]

Sub 4pc actually still in the game as of right now.

[Geckoo]

Happy to see that they fixed combat, it was meant to happen sooner or later, i thought it would be in... 6.1, but it's better this way

The sub bonus set was BEST THING EVER!!!, but they nerfed it way too much.

All of the other changes are just silly and out of mark, specially with hemo.

And those twitter conversations are priceless.

[DakonBlackblade]

Sub set needed a nerf it was the single most powerfull set bonus in the game hands down. I believe this should leave sub a little bit ahead of assas and combat but not enought to compel ppl into playing the clunkiest spec in the game, seens fair.