Rogue 6.0 patch notes

[Kael]

All rogue spec's aoe's are looking powerful. 100% proc poison fok or 5-10 cp fok's with ct stacking. That said bf's dmg will likely be retuned for the fact it will do poison dmg and full aoe. Which means it will likely be worse for low target cleave when all is said and done.

If none of this is reverted, I'd likely expect a nerf to poison damage; the effect of rogue AoE from poison would be enormous for all specs as the specs currently stand, unless all classes are going to get massive AoE and adds will have much more HP when intended to be AoE'd down... but I don't see that happening. I could see poison damage being pushed heavily onto the passive rather than active, making the instant proc from lethal much less dangerous on both AoEs, but worth maintaining on all targets.

Or we could just have immense AoE. Combat daggers for AoE yo. All the poison procs.

[Vigilate]

All rogue spec's aoe's are looking powerful. 100% proc poison fok or 5-10 cp fok's with ct stacking. That said bf's dmg will likely be retuned for the fact it will do poison dmg and full aoe. Which means it will likely be worse for low target cleave when all is said and done.

I actually wouldn't expect to see much change in BF's damage at two targets. Most other melee classes have AoE spells that become beneficial at only 2 targets. These same spells also tend to NOT damage cap until 20 targets while BF hard caps at 4 targets.

[Deleted]

I actually wouldn't expect to see much change in BF's damage at two targets. Most other melee classes have AoE spells that become beneficial at only 2 targets. These same spells also tend to NOT damage cap until 20 targets while BF hard caps at 4 targets.

BF caps at 100 now.

[Vigilate]

BF caps at 100 now.

What?

Currently, Blade Flurry has a MAX target cap of 4, not including the target you're currently attacking. AoEs like Divine Storm and Whirlwind have no hard target cap but have a damage cap @ 20 targets. If a warrior hits Whirlwind on 40 mobs, all 40 will be take damage, but the total damage will be the same as if only 20 mobs were hit.

Basically, BF will now function like Whirlwind and Divine Storm in terms of number of targets hit.

[Wow]

I actually wouldn't expect to see much change in BF's damage at two targets. Most other melee classes have AoE spells that become beneficial at only 2 targets. These same spells also tend to NOT damage cap until 20 targets while BF hard caps at 4 targets.

The issue I can see popping up here is if combat can cleave like now and aoe with the best and good single target why be anything else? Not saying that will happen but can see it being used for a reason to bring it down somewhere.

If none of this is reverted, I'd likely expect a nerf to poison damage; the effect of rogue AoE from poison would be enormous for all specs as the specs currently stand, unless all classes are going to get massive AoE and adds will have much more HP when intended to be AoE'd down... but I don't see that happening. I could see poison damage being pushed heavily onto the passive rather than active, making the instant proc from lethal much less dangerous on both AoEs, but worth maintaining on all targets.

Or we could just have immense AoE. Combat daggers for AoE yo. All the poison procs.

I dunno rogues kind of deserve massive aoe after last 2 expansions of crap aoe. Also compare what some of the highest aoe'er are doing vs us right now why would it wrong if rogues could actually keep up with the best or were the best?

[Ryme]

I dunno rogues kind of deserve massive aoe after last 2 expansions of crap aoe. Also compare what some of the highest aoe'er are doing vs us right now why would it wrong if rogues could actually keep up with the best or were the best?

Probably because our combat's ability to AoE barely diminishes our single target damage. If we rocked it with the top AoE classes whilst maintaining that, I'd say people would start crying.

[Vigilate]

Probably because our combat's ability to AoE barely diminishes our single target damage. If we rocked it with the top AoE classes whilst maintaining that, I'd say people would start crying.

Warriors, Warlocks, Mages, and BM Hunters can all maintain extremely competitive 2-3 target cleave and single target, yet completely overtake Rogues at 5+ targets. As I said, I'm somewhat failing to see the problem.

[Kael]

I dunno rogues kind of deserve massive aoe after last 2 expansions of crap aoe. Also compare what some of the highest aoe'er are doing vs us right now why would it wrong if rogues could actually keep up with the best or were the best?

What's deserved has so little to do with reality =/ Blizzard has always wanted us to excel at single target (and cleave, for combat only). We've been able to AoE at times in the past... but "tunnel" is Blizzard-enforced rogue culture that's still being relaxed into the next expansion. I don't see them accelerating that movement to let us be one of the best AoEs without a harsh penalty on our main target.

IDK if I'd put mages on the OP AoE while maintaining single target list, but I'd add shaman, and warlock should be on there twice. Anyone who lived through 25H Durumu's ice walls... what I really don't get is why so many of the most versatile DPS specs (competent->amazing single target, cleave, AoE) are ranged, or worse, mobile ranged. That's a bit outside of the rogue class... but a relevant design issue.

Personally, I'd be happy to see blade flurry changed to make combat function well on cleave and have superb AoE, if it were lower on single target compared to the other specs. I don't see that happening, either.

[Wow]

What's deserved has so little to do with reality =/ Blizzard has always wanted us to excel at single target (and cleave, for combat only). We've been able to AoE at times in the past... but "tunnel" is Blizzard-enforced rogue culture that's still being relaxed into the next expansion. I don't see them accelerating that movement to let us be one of the best AoEs without a harsh penalty on our main target.

After ten years they finally changed their minds on cp's we can only hope that extends to a more changed minds on other things.

[Squirl]

After playing my alt Lock and realizing FnB is basically just an improved BF, I'm so happy this change is being made.

[Deleted]

Anything more than 5 target aoe is very situational anyway and I don't really see the problem with the bf change. It will simply get us up to par with the rest of the classes when it comes to big aoe.

But when looking at the shadow priest single target dps issue which blizzard appears to be fine with because they do decent aoe which in case means a decent average across all fights in SoO. It makes me doubt that they wouldn't nerf our single target slightly to make up for the gain in aoe dps.

But who knows, we could become as crazy as we were during the ulduar glory days. Half the raids dps in a 25 man with fok yumm, while being the highest single target dps (well don't have the data but that was true for my guild atleast :P).

[Datenshi]

Rogue

Smoke Bomb now reduces damage taken by 10% (down from 20%).

well so guess smoke bomb is gonna be completely useless -_-'
and just after i began to appreciate it

*edit* In PVE eyes anyway

[Lesane]

Anything more than 5 target aoe is very situational anyway and I don't really see the problem with the bf change. It will simply get us up to par with the rest of the classes when it comes to big aoe.

But when looking at the shadow priest single target dps issue which blizzard appears to be fine with because they do decent aoe which in case means a decent average across all fights in SoO. It makes me doubt that they wouldn't nerf our single target slightly to make up for the gain in aoe dps.

But who knows, we could become as crazy as we were during the ulduar glory days. Half the raids dps in a 25 man with fok yumm, while being the highest single target dps (well don't have the data but that was true for my guild atleast :P).

The BF/FOK change is more one streamlining the spec and giving it more identity by putting more focus on BF. I'm not sure it's necessarily meant as a buff, even though it will be a buff in certain areas.

[Blur4stuff]

i'm more concerned about single and 2-5 targets. if it stays competitive there then i won't gripe.

[Vigilate]

well so guess smoke bomb is gonna be completely useless -_-'
and just after i began to appreciate it

*edit* In PVE eyes anyway

All existing DPS spec raid CDs have been nerfed or removed. Could be worse. Ret Paladins no longer have any sort of Raid or Group CD, only single target hand spells. Personally, I don't mind since it means we probably won't see anymore fights such as Thok which require CD stacking the entire time for your raid to survive.

[Wow]

All existing DPS spec raid CDs have been nerfed or removed.

Yes but the remaining ones do work 30-40 yards while smokebomb is 8y. Being weaker and having that limitation really hurts. Now I'm not suggesting a 30yard smoke bomb but I'm sure they could make the dmg reduction part extend 30-40 yards.

But we all know they won't touch it.

[Vigilate]

Yes but the remaining ones do work 30-40 yards while smokebomb is 8y. Being weaker and having that limitation really hurts. Now I'm not suggesting a 30yard smoke bomb but I'm sure they could make the dmg reduction part extend 30-40 yards.

But we all know they won't touch it.

Let's look at the other melee classes' group Wide Utility come WoD.

Druid:
-AoE sprint with a 10 yard base range. Requires Major Glyph for a 40 yard range. Also note that is does not stack with other sprints.

Paladin:
-No Raid wide utility now.

Monk:
-10% movement speed Aura with a 10 yard range. Said aura does not stack with other sprints.

DK:
-20% (Currently 40%, but getting halved) Magic damage reduction bubble with a 6.5 yard radius that lasts 3 seconds. Take note that it is also a talent that is on the same tier as DK's Cheat Death.

Shaman:
-20% of all damage/healing during the next 10 seconds is converted into healing on up to 3 nearby allies. This is actually pretty bad when you realize that Smart Heals are getting nerfed into the gutter. Said heals are just as likely to heal the guy at 90% health as they are the guy at 10% health. While not as big a deal in 5 man content, this CD is going to be rather medicore in a 20 man Mythic raid.

Warrior:
-15% health on all raid members within 30 yards for 10 seconds.

The only melee classes with raid utility that extends beyond melee range now Warriors and Druids. In the case of Warriors, one can debate the difference between extra health and flat damage reduction. Granted, they probably should have nerfed RC down to 10% since it's currently at 20% on live. For Druids, an AoE sprint doesn't exactly compare to a damage reduction cooldown.

[shadowboy]

Shaman:
-20% of all damage/healing during the next 10 seconds is converted into healing on up to 3 nearby allies. This is actually pretty bad when you realize that Smart Heals are getting nerfed into the gutter. Said heals are just as likely to heal the guy at 90% health as they are the guy at 10% health. While not as big a deal in 5 man content, this CD is going to be rather medicore in a 20 man Mythic raid.

You're looking at this through the lens of the current game. Healing someone at 90% is still effective healing and the triage model of healing for WoD means that healer better be casting a heal on that 10% person ANYWAY. The cd will just mean that the people who aren't in immediate danger of dying will have heals in the interim allowing the healers to focus on the low person. Useful healing is useful healing whether the target is 10% or 90% (remember, in WoD damage won't be as bursty as it is now so the healers will have to handle the people at immediate threat of death--and that's intentional).

[Wow]

With all enchants being secondary stats now and the the attack spd buff change do people think this is their solution to energy feeling bad at expansion starts?

Here's some math on what we know so far from the datamining (which could be wrong) at 100 its takes 80 haste rating for 1% for enchants we have both rings and the neck giving 110 rating and the cloak giving 200 rating, and I'm going to assume this is all there will be as they said there would be a lot less enchants. If you did haste for all those you'd get 6.6% haste then add in the haste buff and you have 11.6% haste before any gear with haste on it.

A "free" almost 12% haste would help the start of the expansion but do people think that's their solution or something else is coming? The issue then with doing it that way is not knowing what the new stats will do to the stat weights or any other adjustments they may make on stat weights.

[Maelstrom51]

Warrior:
-15% health on all raid members within 30 yards for 10 seconds.

The only melee classes with raid utility that extends beyond melee range now Warriors and Druids. In the case of Warriors, one can debate the difference between extra health and flat damage reduction. Granted, they probably should have nerfed RC down to 10% since it's currently at 20% on live. For Druids, an AoE sprint doesn't exactly compare to a damage reduction cooldown.

I don't see anything about demo banner getting removed though - only skull banner.