Rogue 6.0 patch notes

[Deleted]

I've been playing Rogue since early 2005, and ever since BC, Rogues have constantly been given the least amount of attention in any patch notes. Largest changes were in MOP, where they gimped us so much that I couldn't recognize this class anymore. Then, all other classes got what we had in our toolkit, except those were improved versions, and much more "flashy" in some regard. So, I finally decided to give the rogue a break and roll a monk. OMFG this class was refreshing and just cool. But, I am the type of guy that only likes playing one char in an MMO, so I went back to my rogue. I will play it regardless of how terrible they get, but I really really wish I had maybe leveled a druid or warrior in Vanilla lol. I mean, Rogues used to be feared class. My first char was Nelf Hunter (go figure), and I had him leveled to like 50 something in Vanilla, then I see these cool Rogues ganking me in full Bloodfang sets, I saw Alliance Rogues showing off in SW and IF in full Bloodfang, and it just got me. I had to level one, and he was my main ever since. But, I remember how Rogues were sought after in arena, bgs, world pvp, simply due to how annoying and just high damage and control class they used to be. Now, ever since WoD announcement, every single patch note or update DOES NOT HAVE ROGUE NOTES. Arms rotation changed, Balance druids reworked for the second fucking time, every class is getting changed in some regard except Rogues. I just don't get it really.

Another thing is, why are we the only class restricted to a type of weapon to be functional? Assassination HAS to use daggers, sub HAS to use daggers because of backstab, combat is LOL, but warriors, DKS, monks can use any weps they want and still be effective (talking about 2h and DW 1hander slow weps). But Rogues have to use daggers, otherwise the specs simply don't function. Why do I have to be punished with weapon choice if I want to use 1h Swords as Sub, or god forbid Assassination( was announced assa would be able to use 1h swords but of course reverted). IDK guys, it really is getting hopeless.

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I only wish they would revamp the class, but even without it, I would be okay with it, if I didn't have to spend 45 seconds in the fight just to ramp up first. Why do warriors can just simply go in, not look at their procs, ramp ups, set ups, fuck ups, shit ups or whatever and just whack on people. As a Rogue, I have to first open with cheap, garrote, then SND, then Rupture, backstab to oblivion then maybe recup if getting focused, vanish, reset. I still didn't get to eviscerate lol, and then if stars align i use eviscerate. By this time, warrior has already done 1-3 million damage, while i sit at 300-500k dmg done. It applies to many scenarios, and mostly arenas. I want them to rework the rogue so we don't have to have so much ramp up just to be effective, but give us something out right that I can feel like an assassin, not like a cook in a restaurant spending 20 minutes on preparing wet noodles to hit guests with.

I fully agree with your comments!

[mauserr]

All these perks here, http://i.imgur.com/BXfpS30.png <----

We have a random chance for each of them while we level 90-100 or we will be unlocking them level by level and have all of them at 100 unlocked?

[Warstar]

I've had my rogue since vanilla, on and off... the neglect and the leash is basically a result of design upon release where rogues could mess people up in pvp. Yes, I'm talking about Tarren Mill days, not even battlegrounds. Every class had it's perks and weirdnesses, it was what made them distinct. But you add arena to it, and dmg meters, and people started complaining. Min-maxing and arenas are what broke the original classes, and they revamped most of them, but I guess they are at loss how to redo rogues without people starting crying foul again.

Everybody hates a rogue gank. Even when rogues are underpowered people hate rogue ganks. Rogues are sneaky slippery bastards who can piss you off, mess with you, CC and steal your minerals, wait til you pull a big pack of mobs and then stun lock you and cause you durability. No one will argue that rogues are one of the greatest "screw with you" classes out there. But Blizz has said numerous times that they don't nor will they ever balance around 1v1.

Sure back in vanilla rogues were very strong. But then again warriors were stronger. 1v1 a rogue could take on any class if they were good but I refer to my previous statement on that. Rogues have always been a strong class in ranked pvp numerous times yet they've never been the strongest. TBC for example rogues were strong in 2v2 and 3v3 in the right comp yet you'd hardly ever see a rogue in 5v5. And even in the days of RMP a warrior with a shaman/paladin healer duo would stomp all over that. Hell in general in 2s back then warrior/druid was the most skillless over powered shit out there. A rogue with bis gear + warglaives would get their ass handed to them by being chain stunned by a warrior with mace procs + storm herald procs and they could never ever get close to the druid healer between cyclones, roots and travel form. Not to mention the expansion long free gladiator FotM combo of warlock/shadow priest. Rogues arguably were the strongest competitors in ranked pvp in tbc that they've ever been yet they still weren't the best.

You hit the nail on the head 100% though. Rogues are the most hated class in the game. Every spec in some way through out the years gets their place in the sun... or warriors have been the shining beacon of OP through out the game in pvp... yet blizzard seems terrified to let rogues actually be awesome. Hell even the combo of dance+cloak and dagger really wasn't game breakingly OP yet as soon as rogues started to actually do some damage and be a threat blizz nerfed the shit out of that right away making that talent completely useless. Even with shurriken toss rogues were doing some damage yet once again that was nerfed right away. And it's not even like rogues were that broken with those abilities. In MoP any time rogues had some sort of way to actually be a threat it was nerfed quicker than any other class out there (look at warrior taste for blood shenanigans at the start of MoP how long did that shit last for where they were able to one shot almost any class in arena?)

[SynergyDarkstar]

People should be more vocal and specific about what they want. Seems like half the posts here are "rogues haven't had change in a long time, please change for the sake of change".

With the amount of history behind the state of rogues, I can't believe that this line of reasoning continues to be brought up...

For literal YEARS the rogue community has provided post after post, with specifics after specifics, during beta after beta, on the official forums, mmo-champ, EJ and others. There's been a plethora of specifics in this thread alone. And Blizzard either replies with condescension (haste will fix it) or silence. There's a very real concern that Blizz has no idea on the direction necessary to bring rogues to the same level of attention and detail granted other classes.

For what it's worth (not much, considering the past), here's my short list for WoD:

Polish:
UI elements for Anticipation, Bandit's Guile
Bring some of Rogue abilities up to iconic standards (perfect example is Envenom: subtle, but instantly recognizable in both visuals and sound)
Fix the litany of bugs that are attached to CPs (some of this could be solved by putting CPs actually on the rogue)

Gameplay:
New non-lethal poisons, since the current crop have been completely gutted with no replacement
Talent trees reworked: some rows need a theme, and worthless talents need to be replaced (a la Mage tree...)
Vendetta dies in a fire and replaced by something fun

There's more that I could list; I think that all three specs need some form of a rework for the rotation (Assassination less so), but I think that this is unreasonable to expect at this point in beta. It's been said since before MoP, and should have been looked at by now, but we're really out of time for any significant changes at this point.

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All these perks here, http://i.imgur.com/BXfpS30.png <----

We have a random chance for each of them while we level 90-100 or we will be unlocking them level by level and have all of them at 100 unlocked?

Both, there are 10 perks for each spec. From 91-100, every time you level a random one will be unlocked. Once you hit 100, all 10 for your spec will be unlocked.

[Calycia]

I've had my rogue since vanilla, on and off... the neglect and the leash is basically a result of design upon release where rogues could mess people up in pvp. Yes, I'm talking about Tarren Mill days, not even battlegrounds. Every class had it's perks and weirdnesses, it was what made them distinct. But you add arena to it, and dmg meters, and people started complaining. Min-maxing and arenas are what broke the original classes, and they revamped most of them, but I guess they are at loss how to redo rogues without people starting crying foul again.

I always assumed that this was why rogue burst damage was held in check. You just can't have a stealth class with a full suite of stuns that has really big burst potential.

And I'm OK with that, but even within the stealth+stuns=low burst paradigm, there's room to make the class fresh and interesting.

[mauserr]

Did they do anything to compensate for Shadow Blades? To me it seems like a huge nerf in our DPS. Pushing it once it came of cooldown wasn't a problem to begin with, no need to remove them.

[Mossrono]

Did they do anything to compensate for Shadow Blades? To me it seems like a huge nerf in our DPS. Pushing it once it came of cooldown wasn't a problem to begin with, no need to remove them.

Knowing Blizzard, probably not.

Also, it's only a matter of time when Blizzard announces this:

"Dear Rogues,

After a long and careful consideration, we have decided to remove you from the game. It is with great sadness that it has had to come to this, but we just don't want to bother changing you, so it is just easier to delete Rogues from Warcraft Universe. We have to focus our rework on Balance Druids twice, rework Warriors, and we overhauled Warlocks, and stealth is not unique to your class either. With that said, you will be given an option to convert your existing Rogue to one of other stealth classes: Mage, Priest, Druid, or Hunter. Once again, we apologize for this traumatic experience you players have gone through since 2007. Looking forward seeing you as something else!!!

Sincerely,

Blizzard Entertainment

RIP Rogues 2004-2014.

[Feali]

Maybe it's because I fucking suck at PvP but Rogues get destroyed in arena right now. Don't know if it's just me.

[Warstar]

@Mossrono

You forgot to mention how everything rogues wanted went to monks.

[catablitz]

@Mossrono

You forgot to mention how everything rogues wanted went to monks.

Same thing Warriors said about Death Knights.

[Noorac]

@Mossrono

You forgot to mention how everything rogues wanted went to monks.

I can't really think of anything I would want from a monk. The class shoots flowers from their hands..

[Mossrono]

I can't really think of anything I would want from a monk. The class shoots flowers from their hands..

Well, them flowers kill us easily lol. But you sure you wouldnt want the resource system monks have? I sure would fucking love to have combo spenders without energy cost and to use slow 1handers in pvp.

[Brianjosel]

or warriors have been the shining beacon of OP through out the game in pvp... yet blizzard seems terrified to let rogues actually be awesome.

Warriors weren't that great in the beginning of Wrath. They weren't awesome until really high Arp levels and Shadowmourne. And for almost all of Cataclysm they sucked. You remember incorrectly.

Rogues were pretty amazingly awesome at the end of Cata, with the Vial of Shadows, 2 piece tier, and legendary. Hell, I had an lfr Vial, Fear and Vengeance, and lfr set, and I still murdered people in an opener unless they were full conquest. And rogues were NEVER the kill target in arena with all of their CDs, even after the CoS/CR shared CD nerf.

Hell even the combo of dance+cloak and dagger really wasn't game breakingly OP yet as soon as rogues started to actually do some damage and be a threat blizz nerfed the shit out of that right away making that talent completely useless.

They could have done something better with it, but that talent was way OP with dance. You could shut down an entire team by yourself. On a short CD.



For a class that has been in a good spot far more than it has been in a bad spot, and has had its own legendary made for them, Blizzard had a funny way of showing how they "hate" them. If the play style is that stale after 8 years, play another class. Or game. Some of us still like it.

[Feali]

For a class that has been in a good spot far more than it has been in a bad spot, and has had its own legendary made for them, Blizzard had a funny way of showing how they "hate" them. If the play style is that stale after 8 years, play another class. Or game. Some of us still like it.

That legendary was made to increase Rogue popularity.

[Brianjosel]

That legendary was made to increase Rogue popularity.

Sure was. I believe GC's words at the time we're something to the effect that Blizzard thinks rogues are really neat, and wants to draw more players to them.

I definitely don't remember them saying that they hate rogues and only make legendaries for shit stain classes.

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I feel like if Blizzard really wanted more rogues, completely redoing and potentially butchering their play style isn't the answer. Make rogues less god awful to level. I recall that an enormous number of rogues never get to level cap. Make their low level dungeon damage good, too. It's all rogues can do. Lack of a oe doesn't help.

[Wow]

I feel like if Blizzard really wanted more rogues.

I guess thats why they did what they did in mop beta and made the rogue population drop to the lowest its ever been...

Cata did feel like they wanted to make rogues more popular mop felt like they wanted to remove them from the game.

[Brianjosel]

I guess thats why they did what they did in mop beta and made the rogue population drop to the lowest its ever been...

Cata did feel like they wanted to make rogues more popular mop felt like they wanted to remove them from the game.

I never got that impression at all. Being one of the strongest melee in pve and pvp (sans warriors) sure makes me feel like they aren't tuning them to drive people away from them.

Every single class forum has vocal posters who insist Blizzard hates them. It's funny how Blizzard seems to express their rampant hatred.


Leveling rogues is miserable. In Vanilla there were a lot of them because mobs were tough, and it was cool that you could slip past unnecessary mobs in stealth. Also, rogues were strong damage at every single freakin experience level. Not like now, where you wait in a queue for a half hour just to follow a tank around that does 4 times the damage that you do. Quest mobs are so easy to kill now, that stealth loses any feeling of necessity. At least in Cata rogues could cheese Shadowstep/Ambush in battlegrounds to one shot everything but tanks and disc priests for the first 60 levels. Now rogues have nothing at all going for them pre-level cap.

Last I saw rogues are not underrepresented in raiding at all, or pvp ( as far as melee goes anyways) at level 90. That tells me the people that actually get there must enjoy them. Some of us don't want a massive overhaul to a class we don't think is broken. I love rogues. My rogue always gets play time every time I come back. But i haven't been playing for 8 years straight. I imagine that if I have, I would try any of the other 10 classes ( which actually I have, most of them).

[Wow]

I never got that impression at all. Being one of the strongest melee in pve and pvp (sans warriors) sure makes me feel like they aren't tuning them to drive people away from them.

/sigh

One of those people that never looks at the whole expansion, always just its best spots. Tell me what you think their game plan was for 5.0 rogues? Do you think they thought that was going to up the rogue population? Omg rogues are so great after a year of bandaids and gear scaling why do you think they're bad?

[Brianjosel]

/sigh

One of those people that never looks at the whole expansion, always just its best spots. Tell me what you think their game plan was for 5.0 rogues? Do you think they thought that was going to up the rogue population?

/sigh

Someone who assumes.

I am talking about the whole expansion. Except for the start of this expansion, where rogues were trash in pvp, they have been good in pvp. As far as casters ever let melee get anyways. They have been good all of this xpac in pve. Very damn good.

What do I think their plan was? I dunno. Combo points and finishers. And stealth. I am not saying I like how similar rogue specs were this xpac. I wasn't thrilled. After Cata, when each spec felt different, it kinda sucked. But I don't believe it had anything to do with rogue hate. Hunters had the same issue, and to a lesser extent warriors too, outside of Prot.

I have to wonder, why do rogues actually care what their rep is? Does everyone want a bunch of huntards running around playing rogues? Is this the master plan of the rogue community? I never once worry about any of this shit when I am playing my rogue. Is it a pity us thing maybe?

Hell, monks sucked hard at the start. Worse than rogues. I have zero reason to believe Blizzard hated on their brands new class. Sometimes they just makes mistakes.

[Noorac]

If the play style is that stale after 8 years, play another class. Or game.

Did you go to business-school or something? That sounds like a really interesting way to keep customers.