Rogue 6.0 patch notes

[Leih]

I think it might be intentional, Hitei. Since they're making Sub be so much about the bleeds, and already Evisc is basically resigned to nothing but rare filler, this new change seems to just be intended to push it even further into bleeds-only territory. It's clear they want Sub rogues to be all about managing bleeds pretty much all the time, and this change certainly does that!

[Hitei]

I think it might be intentional, Hitei. Since they're making Sub be so much about the bleeds, and already Evisc is basically resigned to nothing but rare filler, this new change seems to just be intended to push it even further into bleeds-only territory. It's clear they want Sub rogues to be all about managing bleeds pretty much all the time, and this change certainly does that!

Mmmm, that's pretty much what I figured.

I guess if nothing else, it will at least create more spec differentiation.

[Bullettime]

Mmmm, that's pretty much what I figured.

I guess if nothing else, it will at least create more spec differentiation.

Largely the intention I believe. Personally, I find it to be quite fun, especially with snapshotting being gone. Combat more about direct hits, Sub for bleeds, and Sin for poisons with playstyles to support the differentiation in themes. It's not a Warlock level overhaul but it'll be the most differentiated the specs will have ever been, at least in PvE.

[Hitei]

Largely the intention I believe. Personally, I find it to be quite fun, especially with snapshotting being gone. Combat more about direct hits, Sub for bleeds, and Sin for poisons with playstyles to support the differentiation in themes. It's not a Warlock level overhaul but it'll be the most differentiated the specs will have ever been, at least in PvE.

I wouldn't really call combat and mut that different currently. One is focus on building damage through passive white hits and standard CP builder > Finisher gameplay. The other is about building damage through passive poison damage and standard CP builder > Finisher gameplay.

But sub changes are a good start... Now I just wish devs would acknowledge our talent issues.

[Leih]

I dunno, with rupture gone from combat and more of combat's damage being filled in around deep insight, it does feel reasonably different enough from assassination's (multi)rupture and then pool-envenom-unload-pool gameplay. Not on the same level as Warlocks, of course, but probably as much as the other pures get to feel. It's not great but it's not too awful.

I definitely still think, as I mentioned a page or so ago, that the main issue is in our horrible talent choices more than anything else right now. Our current talents are really lame, and a couple of exciting new ones would spice up the staleness of the class as well.

[Hitei]

I dunno, with rupture gone from combat and more of combat's damage being filled in around deep insight, it does feel reasonably different enough from assassination's (multi)rupture and then pool-envenom-unload-pool gameplay. Not on the same level as Warlocks, of course, but probably as much as the other pures get to feel. It's not great but it's not too awful.

I definitely still think, as I mentioned a page or so ago, that the main issue is in our horrible talent choices more than anything else right now. Our current talents are really lame, and a couple of exciting new ones would spice up the staleness of the class as well.

Clearly an image depicting what is wrong with the talent tree needs to be created and agreed upon and then spam tweeted to devs.

Rogues used to be well known for complaining all the time, after all.

[DakonBlackblade]

Can anyone explain to me why assas has been gratuitously nerfed ? It was not like the spec was overperforming.

[Wow]

Can anyone explain to me why assas has been gratuitously nerfed ? It was not like the spec was overperforming.

If I had to take a guess the same reason it was hotfix nerfed in 5.4 to get less people to play it and to get more people to play other specs.

[Silent Earth]

Sub is very Feral-esque on the beta regarding bleeds and such.

I realize I'm probably in the vast minority, but I'm actually pretty excited about this. I've wished Sub would be turned into a bleed spec for a very long time, and if it's reminiscent of Feral (which I love, sans SR, among others) I think it will be really fun to try out. Sub has lacked any kind of true identity other than Dance for a long time. If nothing else, I'm excited to see how this turns out.

[Artorius]

Can anyone explain to me why assas has been gratuitously nerfed ? It was not like the spec was overperforming.

4P is probably the strongest tier bonus Assassin ever had, chances are that they're balancing the spec around having it. But we don't know for sure yet.

Bonus can change, and the spec will most likely change before live hits anyway =).
(dmg %, do not expect any kind of new mechanic or anything like that, they're obviously happy with the state of Rogues).

[latreese]

Does anyone know what causes Anticipation to sometimes not roll over into combo points after using offensive finishers?

[fierydemise]

To pus some numbers on the sub MS mechanic it works out to ~0.04 seconds of rupture lost per % MS. In the ilvl 660 premade gear (35% MS) that works out to ~1.4 additional ruptures required per minute. This effectively means that all cps generated naturally by cp builders will need to do to rupture and SnD and ~16% of HAT cps will need to go to rupture in this gear set.

Overall its a smaller effect than I expected although at high gear levels I'm a bit worried about the effect on rupture duration, in this gear set effective rupture duration works out ~15 seconds, at higher gear levels effective rupture duration of <10 seconds is very possible.

EDIT: Further computation suggests <10 second duration is unlikely till very late in the expansion, >80% MS required but 12 second duration rupture occurs around 60% MS which does seem achievable with weapon enchants.

[Mafic]

Main Gauche - 225%
SS - 102%
Main Gauche (post OH penalty) - 112.5%

Main Gauche hits harder with an equivalent offhand.

Yup thank you.

[Tripax]

Woohoo beta access!

Time to feedback my ass off.

...and decide will my main be a shadowpriest or rogue!

[CasualNoob]

So, how about removing positional requirement from BS? Blizzard did't like the (imaginary) "need for the AffDots-like addon", and they decided to just make sub unplayable in PvE. Because FU rogues ability name. Nice. Celestation said something about removing rolling behavior from Hemo?

[Bullettime]

So, how about removing positional requirement from BS? Blizzard did't like the (imaginary) "need for the AffDots-like addon", and they decided to just make sub unplayable in PvE. Because FU rogues ability name. Nice. Celestation said something about removing rolling behavior from Hemo?

It wasn't imaginary at all if you bothered to actually test it. It wasn't a severe thing but it was certainly annoying and fairly unnecessary, contradicting their design intentions for every other class.

[Karry]

Some patch notes..and as always absolutely nothing interesting or something that makes people go "Hmm the devs really thought about this one". This to me feels like a Monk situation. No not our monk, the Diablo 3 Monk. Like that Monk class ( "Monks are fine" ), Blizzard seems to treat rogues like garbage constantly. I dont want a complete overhaul of the class but our talents really need to be revisited. They are at the number tuning stage now so that makes me afraid that we are gonna remain like this. Combat got even more simplified and after doing Dragon Soul heroic so much I never want to see the spec again and it seems in SoO it's the same with combat. Muti got some QoL changes but due to gear the down time at the beginning to mid expansion will be depression causing and Sub is now basically nerfed into the ground and is a just a wannabe feral.

I only like to play shamans and rogues and both classes seem really ignored by blizzard, and if they dont ignore them they just make stupid changes to make it seem like they are doing something. I mean really they say they want class feedback and in the end they always say "Yea you have a point but WEEEEEEEEEEEEE FEEEL LIKE....blalblalba" and there goes the feedback.

[Raicky]

Muti got some QoL changes but due to gear the down time at the beginning to mid expansion will be depression causing

Nope. Even without the tier bonus sims show assassination as the spec with the least downtime. If the currently announced 4p tier bonus goes live, its going to be the new and improved "combat carpal tunnel".

[Karry]

Even so, it's still baffling that we havent had a change to our rotation for so long and the class is basically the same for so long. I fully expect a nerf on the 4p tier bonus for assas because rogues always seem like on the radar for nerfs. I dont even want to talk about PvP and the set bonus for sub, I mean literally my grandma could have come up with something more original than that if I taught her WoW for a bit.

Regarding our 100 talents. I cannot wrap my head around it. Blizzard are humans right and they have a brain and they talk about stuff amongs eachother and they see results and stuff. How can a human being with a fully functional brain really make the decision to implement those talents and say that they are fine, I really cannot understand it.

Venom Rush is just....... That 2 min useless PVE CD ( it's only use might be killing spree and that's it ), cant even remember what it;s called is useless and Death From Above is a better and worse eviscerate at the same time. Really, they are sitting at their desks and seeing this stuff ( AND FEEDBACK ) and really really thinking this is fine... I just can't understand.

[MiiiMiii]

Can someone that has tested Rogues in beta for a while tell us how they feel it is?
Does every spec feel distinct (as they "promised" they should)?
Is the talents now interesting?
Does it look like all 3 specs will be viable for both PvP and PvE?
Are all the specs fun?

I know Mages can answer Yes to all of these questions. Blizz did an amazing job with them. Can Rogues?