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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Emophia View Post
    All the things they removed and they left in freaking faerie fire?

    That spell that's only a boring debuff in PVE and exists just to piss off rogues in PVP?

    Why?

    Symbiosis change is nice hopefully they can properly balances our defensives now. Not really good /w a priest/pally, screwed w/o like we are now.
    Not sure why FF isn't removed from balance and resto at least and put curse of elements(earth and moon ahem) on damage spells. Not much druid abilities removed and I doubt many people want to do 0 damage applying that... yeah we shellfish

    Says rising sun kick applies CoE, why? Idk why melee wouldnt inherently put up their own buffs and debuffs and casters do the same. Maybe to encourage diverse comps.

  2. #62
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Is it just me or did they completely murder the lvl 90 tier?

    Heart of the Wild no longer provides an increase to Hit chance or Expertise while active, and no longer increases Stamina, Agility, and Intellect.
    Hotw is now pretty much useless since the +6% in all stats was the only thing that was consistent with this talent.

    Dream of Cenarius
    Balance: Casting Healing Touch no longer increases the damage bonus of the Druid's next Eclipse. Eclipse now causes the Druid's next Healing Touch to become instant cast and reset the cooldown on Starsurge.
    Feral: Casting Healing Touch no longer increases the damage of the Druid's next 2 melee abilities, or increases the healing of Rejuvenation.
    Guardian: No longer increases the critical strike chance of Mangle.
    DoC Seems to not have any purpose at all? Am I missing anything?

    Nature's Vigil, while active, increases single-target damage and healing caused by healing spells by 16% (down from 25%), and all single-target damage spells also heal a nearby friendly target for 35% of the damage done (up from 25%).
    This is the only talent in this tier where i see anything thats remotely a good change. A good change following a bad change that is.


    What the hell is up with this tier? Im hoping its datamining errors from alpha notes...
    Last edited by MrApple; 2014-04-04 at 02:36 PM.
    Epic!

  3. #63
    I'll withhold final judgement till I can play it, but it looks to me like there will be far fewer buttons and fewer talents that do anything. I guess the game was still too complex for some people to figure out.
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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    Is it just me or did they completely murder the lvl 90 tier?

    What the hell is up with this tier? Im hoping its datamining errors from alpha notes...
    What we currently have as a lvl 90 talent tier versus the intent behind the tier is why they are adjusting them.

    The intent for these talents was to have druids embrace being hybrids, by allowing us to perform a secondary role without impacting our primary role to any great extent. In MoP, they were almost exclusively taken for personal gains for the primary role, with their off-role benefits being a distant second. In WoD, Blizz wants to make them all about the off-role benefits. This change also allows primary roles to have baseline power increase, so it shouldn't be thought of as losing primary role power but allowing druids to choose an off-role ability w/o worrying about throughput gains of the primary role.

    Before the Ferals come charging in about DoC, I'm sure Blizz is aware of the griping that would ensue and probably has plans for it in some other fashion.

    Overall, I think druids got the least amount of ability pruning thus far, so we can laugh from our greener grass side!
    Last edited by exochaft; 2014-04-04 at 03:00 PM.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  5. #65
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    The role of HotW is even more dubious now, though - even now, it is generally macroed into Tranquility in raids, so it is used for all of 8s of its 45s duration by most non-Restos. However, the 6% stat increase means it is still worth talenting for. Unless there are further changes then HotW seems like it will be relegated to an arena-only talent. HotW remains an anomaly because using it for its full duration *does* affect your primary role - you can't use your nukes and blanket the raid with Rejuvenation, for example.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
    The role of HotW is even more dubious now, though - even now, it is generally macroed into Tranquility in raids, so it is used for all of 8s of its 45s duration by most non-Restos. However, the 6% stat increase means it is still worth talenting for. Unless there are further changes then HotW seems like it will be relegated to an arena-only talent. HotW remains an anomaly because using it for its full duration *does* affect your primary role - you can't use your nukes and blanket the raid with Rejuvenation, for example.
    It could have a time and place, and HotW should have much greater power compared to other talents if it greatly disrupts the primary role. If you remove the power gains from your primary role from DoC and NV, how is the strength of HotW perceived? It's arguably the strongest of all three in terms of the off-role potential, which has been dwarfed by the healing model of MoP and the primary role power gains of DoC/NV. Keep in mind, too, that there's a massive reduction in raid cooldowns across the board, but Blizz is alright with leaving this intact for druids. The off-role power of this talent tier's role should be more imporant in WoD, hence the de-emphasis of these talents' contributions to primary roles.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
    The role of HotW is even more dubious now, though - even now, it is generally macroed into Tranquility in raids, so it is used for all of 8s of its 45s duration by most non-Restos. However, the 6% stat increase means it is still worth talenting for. Unless there are further changes then HotW seems like it will be relegated to an arena-only talent. HotW remains an anomaly because using it for its full duration *does* affect your primary role - you can't use your nukes and blanket the raid with Rejuvenation, for example.
    tranq will probably be resto only and hotw tranq is serious overkill. You could top the raid from 10% to over 100 and with meta gem and nature's grace it might as well be revival.

    If you don't believe me that tranq is probably getting cut go read the celestalon twitter. He says devo aura is becoming holy only and that it didnt make the patch notes. HTT for shamans is resto only. Your only offhealing is likely to be tier 30 and 90 now. Pretty sure the NV tooltip is not correct as well... it current contributes to your primary role in those notes, it should only do healing tbh, else all will take this
    Last edited by Aboubacar; 2014-04-04 at 03:30 PM.

  8. #68
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Symbiosis has been removed.
    Rest in peace Symbiosis. You were a cool idea but i can see why they are removing it.
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  9. #69
    That Innervate removal hurts like mad, even with the apparently adjusted mana costs. This goes double since Shadowfiend, Mana Tea, and Mana Tide Totem are still resources for their respective casters.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    Is it just me or did they completely murder the lvl 90 tier?
    Yes. On purpose, even, and it says so in the notes. They're supposed to be no better than damage neutral.

  11. #71
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    Hoping to see changes to sotf or new rampant growth (potential) talent. Just in case the interaction between the 2 would make for an awkward, fixed healing rotation- op or not.
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  12. #72

    New Glyph of Savagery

    I haven't seen anyone else mention this one yet, I found it to be quite interesting:
    Glyph of Savagery now grants a free 5 combo point Savage Roar when leaving Prowl, instead of allowing Savage Roar to be used with 0 combo points.
    I feel like this will be a great boost at the start of the fight, you don't have to preload SR right before the pull, and you get the full duration of the buff before you have to worry about renewing.

    I also wonder if this will get nerfed/changed for NE, as can't you shadowmeld in fight, prowl, and ravage? If so, that's a free 5cp every 2 minutes for NE.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    You're making pretty bold statements based on a couple of mechanic changes without actually knowing ANYTHING else about how to class will work or how snapshotting will work to do with the encounters or anything else.
    We kinda have to do that if we want stuff to change. Once blizzard gets it into later beta then the issues usually stick around until release and are only fixed once they notice that it's unplayable. By that point the damage will have been done.
    It's especially important the flip out about the general direction that blizzard is taking the specs (if you don't like it of course), as that shows what they want to do with them. I for one hate that they are removing most parts of feral complexity.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Laringar View Post
    I also wonder if this will get nerfed/changed for NE, as can't you shadowmeld in fight, prowl, and ravage? If so, that's a free 5cp every 2 minutes for NE.
    Shadowmeld only drops combat when the mobs reset. It is not Vanish.

  15. #75
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Yes. On purpose, even, and it says so in the notes. They're supposed to be no better than damage neutral.
    Well.. Why does other classes still have amazing choices in their lvl 90 tier? Did i missunderstand you or did you confuse yourself over my first post?
    Epic!

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    Well.. Why does other classes still have amazing choices in their lvl 90 tier? Did i missunderstand you or did you confuse yourself over my first post?
    Because you're comparing apples to steam engines. Talents only compete with other talents on the same tier of the same class(and in some cases, spec). Whether or not other classes have "amazing" choices in any tier where druids don't doesn't matter. Whether the class is significantly better or worse at a certain role does. Druids have less performance affecting talents because most of our performance is baseline.

  17. #77
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Because you're comparing apples to steam engines. Talents only compete with other talents on the same tier of the same class(and in some cases, spec). Whether or not other classes have "amazing" choices in any tier where druids don't doesn't matter. Whether the class is significantly better or worse at a certain role does. Druids have less performance affecting talents because most of our performance is baseline.
    I dont agree. Looking at the talent calculator all classes have significant talents for their lvl 90.
    Important and highly gamechanging abilities for all classes and specs... except for druids come WoD.

    What?

    That doesnt fly with me and all this apples/oranges-bullshit doesnt do anything to bring any light to it. Sorry...
    Epic!

  18. #78
    That just means that all the other classes need to be weaker without those talents than Druids. It doesn't mean that they are any better.

    Point is, you cannot compare individual talents or talent tiers between classes, because then you're only comparing a small part of one class with a part of another class.

    That's like saying that an airplane is always better for getting home than a car because it moves faster.

  19. #79
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    Will boomkins just not have spirit on their gear now?
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  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Will boomkins just not have spirit on their gear now?
    Spirit will only appear on rings, trinkets, necks and weapons(?) and since there's no more Hit/Expertise then there's no need to have Spirit for non-healers.

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