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  1. #81
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    Spirit will only appear on rings, trinkets, necks and weapons(?) and since there's no more Hit/Expertise then there's no need to have Spirit for non-healers.
    But since they do not need it, it will get changed to some other secondary stat right?
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  2. #82
    I am Murloc! Wrathonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    But since they do not need it, it will get changed to some other secondary stat right?
    Hit and Expertise bonuses on all items and item enhancements (gems, enchants, etc.) have been converted into Critical Strike, Haste, or Mastery.
    And I am sure spirit on armor will get replaced in such a manner as well.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    But since they do not need it, it will get changed to some other secondary stat right?
    As long as it's not on a ring, trinket, neck or cape, yes.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    As long as it's not on a ring, trinket, neck or cape, yes.
    yep i saved hit (guessing this becomes a new stat like multistrike or CDR) items in bank to replace any gear I have with spirit on it. I'd grab a black blood too if you can just in case - not sure what the immerseus trinket will become considering amplification won't be a stat in 6.0 - heard it was cut.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    But since they do not need it, it will get changed to some other secondary stat right?
    No. Whatever secondary/tertiary stats are on the item is what the item will always have. Only your primary stat is changed upon spec changes.

    Edit: If you're talking about MoP gear and older I imagine they'll all be retuned to account for the loss of spirit, hit, expertise, dodge and parry from the slots that shouldn't have those stats.
    Last edited by Trubo; 2014-04-05 at 12:52 AM.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by officerlahey View Post
    yep i saved hit (guessing this becomes a new stat like multistrike or CDR) items in bank to replace any gear I have with spirit on it. I'd grab a black blood too if you can just in case - not sure what the immerseus trinket will become considering amplification won't be a stat in 6.0 - heard it was cut.
    The stat was cut, not the trinket. It'll probably just stay as it is now.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by officerlahey View Post
    Not sure u'll need bubble symbi when SI is 70% DR and 2 charges for feral/guardians.

    symbi was super frustrating to deal with when people respec, or with multiple druids, or when solo. It made druids reliant on specific pvp comps. Good decision I agree
    Also sometimes after wipes it just clears. Maybe from people being too far away. Never found out why it does it. They swear they haven't changed glyphs/talents.
    With the change to survival instinct i'm fine with the removal of it(2 charges for feral on just 2 mins cd is pretty major). I hate whenever i enter a raid/bg/arena without the right classes in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emophia View Post
    All the things they removed and they left in freaking faerie fire?

    That spell that's only a boring debuff in PVE and exists just to piss off rogues in PVP?

    Why?

    Symbiosis change is nice hopefully they can properly balances our defensives now. Not really good /w a priest/pally, screwed w/o like we are now.
    Apart from the bear that one pointed out, it also works against mage invis, druids, shadowmeld and priest fadethingy. I also like to press that key when i wait for my energy.


    Was afraid they would prune a lot more of the talents, but looks like they realise that a lot that play druid do it because of the many abilities. For feral i thought they would remove soothe, hibernate, remove corruption and such.
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  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Terridon View Post
    Apart from the bear that one pointed out, it also works against mage invis, druids, shadowmeld and priest fadethingy. I also like to press that key when i wait for my energy.
    And even if nobody had it on their bars... the point was to reduce button bloat, not unused abilities, so it still wouldn't be chosen.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Terridon View Post
    Was afraid they would prune a lot more of the talents, but looks like they realise that a lot that play druid do it because of the many abilities. For feral i thought they would remove soothe, hibernate, remove corruption and such.
    I wouldn't want to see hibernate go at all, the problem in PVE is just that they haven't required enough CC in dungeons - I think I last used this on Sinestra and maybe grim batol dragonkin and a couple other cata 5man mobs. Doesn't help to remove it in pvp either because only a handful of classes can be affected by it and it's easily avoided by decent players by shapeshifting or dropping ghostwolf.

    Soothe again, just not enough enrage effects that are even worth dispelling atm and if they don't one shot your tank it's just better to leave it up for vengeance.

    I really like remove corruption, although it's use was again very limited. Off the top of my head all I can remember is hex of confusion on Horridon.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    What we currently have as a lvl 90 talent tier versus the intent behind the tier is why they are adjusting them.

    The intent for these talents was to have druids embrace being hybrids, by allowing us to perform a secondary role without impacting our primary role to any great extent. In MoP, they were almost exclusively taken for personal gains for the primary role, with their off-role benefits being a distant second. In WoD, Blizz wants to make them all about the off-role benefits. This change also allows primary roles to have baseline power increase, so it shouldn't be thought of as losing primary role power but allowing druids to choose an off-role ability w/o worrying about throughput gains of the primary role.
    Those changes are just another go at "blizzard doesn't learn a thing". HotW was nerfed within one week of MoP release for a reason, it recieved a hefty PvP nerf in 5.4 for the very same reason. The lack of off-spec mechanics (you have access to 1-2 abilities for the secondary role, no mastery, talents etc) and the requirement "fulfill a secondary role sufficiently well (otherwise you won't use the spell)" require the spells you have access to, to yield obscure numbers. We're talking about 300-500% of the usual ones here. Also, at least for PvE we've only ever seen HotW+Tranq, no matter what stage of progression (even on tight enrage timers).
    There simple wasn't a requirement for hybrid play (or rather attonement/fistweaving were superior, because they were more accessible and didn't come at a 100% primary role sacrifice - something which doesn't go all that will with ecnounter design). As for PvP, I wonder what a DD suddenly becoming a fully-capable healer will do in a non-burst PvP enviroment (hint: it will be even less effective than what those 5.4 nerfs provided - i'd say almost negligible)

    As for Dream of Cenarius, we just need to take a look at it's first iteration, because that's what the current WoD version is, just a bit more spec-flavored. If I remember correctly, only feral considered it to be a worthwhile investent, for all other specs it provided a significant loss at an almost negligible gain. But let's just assume no one took it because the other options were superior and that it actually would've provided significant numbers. Then we can describe the talent in a line as follows: "fistweaving with just one ability" or "attonement without synergy". Well, "one ability" or "no synergy" sound familiar? Significant numbers will just as for HotW require bordeline overpowered numbers. But well, this talent, if not useless (at least it's not only mastery, but also perks you lack this time!), will read "who needs healers? we have a self-sustaining army of druids" [remember: their goal is for players to be fine below 100%, i.e. enough time for the feral to find a sweet spot to heal himself, or for the boomkin to do so].

    Nature's Vigil? The resto DPS currently is negligible [<10k], it stays the same for WoD. Luckily (or do I need to say mana-play enforced it) they kept the heal-copy effect, so it will be the obvious choice for restoration druids. As for non-resto? Currently it's 36% of your single-target DPS as heal. See DoC for what we'll end up with here ...

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by officerlahey View Post
    I wouldn't want to see hibernate go at all, the problem in PVE is just that they haven't required enough CC in dungeons - I think I last used this on Sinestra and maybe grim batol dragonkin and a couple other cata 5man mobs. Doesn't help to remove it in pvp either because only a handful of classes can be affected by it and it's easily avoided by decent players by shapeshifting or dropping ghostwolf.

    Soothe again, just not enough enrage effects that are even worth dispelling atm and if they don't one shot your tank it's just better to leave it up for vengeance.

    I really like remove corruption, although it's use was again very limited. Off the top of my head all I can remember is hex of confusion on Horridon.
    I wouldn't want to see them gone either. Was afraid they would, since most seem not to use it.
    in pve i used soothe last time in first tier in cata, against the trashdragons, hibernate in the new ZA, and remove corruption at horridon/thok at green phase.
    For pvp i use soothe against warriors, and hunter pets, hibernate to make druids realise that they really should use it too/hunterpets again, remove corruption against locks curses/havoc and hex, as you mentioned.
    Is probably more uses that i just didn't notice, but i suppose that if they had removed it, a lot would have had to look them up to see what they even did.

    I agree that Blizzard should give more uses to where you could use the spells. CC-wise we're usually pretty useless.
    Enrage effects is a bit dangerous in instances, since you then rely a lot having one that can remove it in group.

    Edit:
    Apperently soothe can be used on the jailor on thok too.
    Last edited by Terridon; 2014-04-06 at 07:53 AM.
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  12. #92
    Hey,

    I was asking myself if there are news about dot-snapshotting in WoD?
    Will it be like MoP or will dots scale automatically with procs?

    cheers

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by dendrophobia View Post
    Hey,

    I was asking myself if there are news about dot-snapshotting in WoD?
    Will it be like MoP or will dots scale automatically with procs?

    cheers
    Scale dynamically with procs. Haven't seen them talk about exactly what will scale dynamically apart from trinkets, but this guy seems to have:
    Quote Originally Posted by kahdgarxi View Post
    Another important point to note, is that Snapshotting removal is only for temporary stat buffs like trinkets, Bloodlust, etc. Class-specific cooldowns like Tigers Fury will still snapshot like they do now.
    Everyone has so much to say
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  14. #94
    Wouldn't want to see soothe go, it's useful in pvp. Mixed feelings about hibernate. Also useful, but it's a pain having resto/balance druids mess with feral in pvp, so wouldn't mind either way.

  15. #95
    tranqu now resto only:

    Celestalon ‏@Celestalon 10h
    @Syzlakz Nope, Tranquility is being made Restoration-only as part of the balance pass on raid utility.

  16. #96
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    That last part seems to hurt HotW even more. It seems almost unthinkable that Blizzard is going to balance a raid encounter around a Balance Druid spamming HT / Rejuv for 45s. Tranquility moving to Resto only would seem to be the nail in the coffin for HotW in raids.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
    That last part seems to hurt HotW even more. It seems almost unthinkable that Blizzard is going to balance a raid encounter around a Balance Druid spamming HT / Rejuv for 45s. Tranquility moving to Resto only would seem to be the nail in the coffin for HotW in raids.
    I don't think you understood the purpose of that tier. No, they aren't going to balance a raid encounter around a DD healing. But that has nothing to do with HotW. The odd one out is NV anyway, which still has a damage/healing boost for no clear reason. I imagine that will get removed before release unless they decide to completely retool the tier.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I don't think you understood the purpose of that tier. No, they aren't going to balance a raid encounter around a DD healing. But that has nothing to do with HotW. The odd one out is NV anyway, which still has a damage/healing boost for no clear reason. I imagine that will get removed before release unless they decide to completely retool the tier.
    I do get what he's saying though. The problem with HotW without tranq is the fact that it doesn't heal much of anything immediately. You can go HotW if your healers are struggling, but at the expense of doing no damage at all. NV just seems like a far better choice in pretty much all situations, besides the fact that it's not targeted.

  19. #99
    To me it seems like NV is going to be the best overall choice, HotW might be good if you need help for a specific aprt of the fight where healing needs to be focused on certain players and not just raidhealing, or if less healers are needed for a burst phase and you need more dps. I hope if they do go that route, that they will reduce the cooldown on heart of the wild though, 6min is too long.

  20. #100
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    NV is losing its damage boost in 6.0, so it'll be more or less a copy of Shaman's AG. Given that NV will allow you to heal without breaking your primary role, it will be most likely be the front runner for 'the' raid talent to pick.

    Huth, I do understand the intent of HotW, sadly that intent does not mesh with raiding at all. My overall point is that no talent should be in a position where you wouldn't ever be picking it for a raid. At the moment, that reason is HotW-Tranq; it's not a very good reason, but it's a reason. Without that, HotW will have no real function in a raid that the new DoC or NV can't also fulfil, without causing your DPS to come to a complete standstill.

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