6.0 Windwalker Discussion

[RippedLife]

oh blizzard. dont like the last changed at all, I hate multistrike cause you cant feel the difference like with haste, this will be boring

[Minnazuki]

How did this affect our DPS overall?

Our ST sims look pretty sad : http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...M-10-2-14.html
We are not the bottom but I feel we are lack luster. I'd be interested in seeing what we look like on most fights aka SEF minor add fights and full on AoE fights with *ChiEx madness* wonder if we are still top. would love to see some Logs for today! ^.^

From what I remember seeing on fights like Brakenspore we were 5-6 on the charts i'd imagine we dropped below Locks now. 6-8 on add spawn / SEF fights.

[Saltycracker]

Tiger strikes got buffed.

2H/DW got normalized

MMOChampion datamining is not great, and the front page is misleading.

Water is wet.

That, the weather, and more at 11.

[xxajziegxx]

How did this affect our DPS overall?

Our ST sims look pretty sad : http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...M-10-2-14.html
We are not the bottom but I feel we are lack luster. I'd be interested in seeing what we look like on most fights aka SEF minor add fights and full on AoE fights with *ChiEx madness* wonder if we are still top. would love to see some Logs for today! ^.^

From what I remember seeing on fights like Brakenspore we were 5-6 on the charts i'd imagine we dropped below Locks now. 6-8 on add spawn / SEF fights.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...pe=damage-done

This was before the last changes, but I think we were doing pretty good so far. If playing it correctly, I have been able to keep up near the top or be the top, specially on many fights that have lots of adds, or with something like this:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...pe=damage-done

Just something to look over. I will be doing more testing when more normal modes open up, so hopefully we will see kinda where we stand.

[Hinalover]

How did this affect our DPS overall?

Our ST sims look pretty sad : http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...M-10-2-14.html
We are not the bottom but I feel we are lack luster. I'd be interested in seeing what we look like on most fights aka SEF minor add fights and full on AoE fights with *ChiEx madness* wonder if we are still top. would love to see some Logs for today! ^.^

From what I remember seeing on fights like Brakenspore we were 5-6 on the charts i'd imagine we dropped below Locks now. 6-8 on add spawn / SEF fights.

First up there was a tooltip correction that Celestalon posted (DW's Tiger Strike Proc was supposed to be 5%). This brought Tiger Strike uptime to near even between dual welding and 2-Handers (35-39% in mythic gear).

Secondly In order to do some testing, I made a sim with said changes and made sure to not factor in tier bonusess. I wanted to see how close DW and 2H is from a baseline perspective. If you want to see what we look like with tier bonuses, multiply the values by ~1.085. This is what I came up with:

http://hinalover.altervista.org/SimC/WWDifference.html

Basically DW is still 3% damage above 2-Handers. If they can drop that damage by another 600-700 dps; that would bring them within 1% of each other and I would be happy (ecstatic if they can get them completely even).

And before people start saying "you actually want to nerf us," they can always tweek the Fierce Tiger stance to do 15% bonus damage instead of 10% and that would bring us up to where we were before.

[Minnazuki]

Basically DW is still 3% damage above 2-Handers. If they can drop that damage by another 600-700 dps; that would bring them within 1% of each other and I would be happy (ecstatic if they can get them completely even).

And before people start saying "you actually want to nerf us," they can always tweek the Fierce Tiger stance to do 15% bonus damage instead of 10% and that would bring us up to where we were before.

That would make me a very happy *Red Panda ^.^

I would kill for 2hand weps to be equal / close to DW i always get stuck in guilds that are flooded with Enh sham and Rogues lol would be nice to just use a 2 hander

on a side note. lol Hina just looked and saw you are in Roadrunners lol me and my BF almost joined your guild when you were on garosh hm progression right before we took our break from the game lol small world. you guys didnt really need 2 heals and wanted to swap me and him out didnt feel like doing that at the point so we just dropped our Sub to the game.

[Deleted]

The sims have been off the whole time they have been released, compared to what you can actually do on beta

[Rockets]

The sims have been off the whole time they have been released, compared to what you can actually do on beta

Thank you for your detailed bug report.

[Serendepityz]

The sims have been off the whole time they have been released, compared to what you can actually do on beta

^^^^^^^^^^^^ +1

[Hinalover]

The sims have been off the whole time they have been released, compared to what you can actually do on beta

Well, if it makes any consolation prize I found a major bug with SimC's handling of Way of the Monk (it was pulling in the wrong Spell ID basically). Once that was fixed it jumped the base damage up by 2k. This is without Tier bonus turned on



If they want DW and 2Handers to be even, they need to lower the 1-Hander AA damage from Way of the Monk to 30% (down from 40%)

[Juliansfist]

They probs don't want DW/2H damage to be even because it's technically more effort to get a DW setup then 2H - 2 loots > 1. Pretty sure Blizzard has stated in general for a class that has a DW/2H option that they want DW to be superior as well. My pref would be to see DW favour WW and 2H favour BrM.

[Gaje]

They probs don't want DW/2H damage to be even because it's technically more effort to get a DW setup then 2H - 2 loots > 1. Pretty sure Blizzard has stated in general for a class that has a DW/2H option that they want DW to be superior as well. My pref would be to see DW favour WW and 2H favour BrM.

I'm pretty sure they have specifically stated that the intent for Monks was to have DW and 2H be equal. Other classes may be different.

[Hinalover]

I know this is not an OFFICIAL Beta Raid standings but it should show that the bug fixes and changes made yesterday did improve Windwalker's position on the overall listing. This is just a text result without any of the visuals to it:

http://pastie.org/9615991

[Maximum]

The sims have been off the whole time they have been released, compared to what you can actually do on beta

Exactly, For all of our Testing from Duality on Zul'jin Monk has been #1 for every mythic raid test with NO pvp 2 and 4 piece single target and obviously AoE. I've been trying to hold my tounge this beta because all People do is complain on forums that they need to be buffed, which is absurd to think that they need to not be nerferd. The sims are utterly fucked up and to be honest sims are usually pretty dumb, so dont pay attention to it too much.

Also, there is something missing in the patch notes, i did some cms tonight when the beta came up and it looks like they gutted Chi explosion, among the other changes that were stated. Maybe(Hopefully) its just my monk?

[Deleted]

CE was nerfed a few builds ago, its not just your monk.

[Jugaal]

Saying that sims are "dumb" is kind of silly... Sims are used to compare all the classes' possible optimum dps... Meaning class A COULD potentially do better than class B in real time play, but obviously not always the case. Latency, player skill, etc. all bring a lot of unaccounted factors into actual player dps.

[Slirith]

Random question but how does one attack now without weapons being used? Jab glyph or no jab glyph my monk still attacks with weapons in hand. Is it the fact that one of the weapons is a fist wep?

[Deleted]

Exactly, For all of our Testing from Duality on Zul'jin Monk has been #1 for every mythic raid test with NO pvp 2 and 4 piece single target and obviously AoE. I've been trying to hold my tounge this beta because all People do is complain on forums that they need to be buffed, which is absurd to think that they need to not be nerferd. The sims are utterly fucked up and to be honest sims are usually pretty dumb, so dont pay attention to it too much.

Also, there is something missing in the patch notes, i did some cms tonight when the beta came up and it looks like they gutted Chi explosion, among the other changes that were stated. Maybe(Hopefully) its just my monk?

When were those tests? The streams I've seen after all the nerfs (especially to the initially far too strong Chi Explosion), and some testing of guildies on the Beta (only random groups, though) have shown monk to be mediocre on pure single target. Though almost all bosses have some aoe and/or cleave added, and that's were WWs shine.
And you can't compare single target sims with those scenarios and say they are "fucked up". But I agree people tend to give them too much attention and try to read something into them which isn't there.

[e] It's basically the same:
Person A: OMG we are so low in [single target] sims we're going to get benched. Buffz now plxplx!
Person B: OMG look at actual numbers of bosses [with different mechanics, which are in 80%+ adds or multiple bosses] compared to the [single target] sims, they are nothing alike! Sims are all wrong!

[xxajziegxx]

Exactly, For all of our Testing from Duality on Zul'jin Monk has been #1 for every mythic raid test with NO pvp 2 and 4 piece single target and obviously AoE. I've been trying to hold my tounge this beta because all People do is complain on forums that they need to be buffed, which is absurd to think that they need to not be nerferd. The sims are utterly fucked up and to be honest sims are usually pretty dumb, so dont pay attention to it too much.

Also, there is something missing in the patch notes, i did some cms tonight when the beta came up and it looks like they gutted Chi explosion, among the other changes that were stated. Maybe(Hopefully) its just my monk?

It's only good now for AoE fights/trash. And I agree with you, when I have been doing my testing, and posting my logs here, there are only a few fights that WW wasn't taking the cake but also didn't get the time to fully try out every talent setup I wanted to. So far, I don't think there is any reason for people to be fully complaining about WW damage as 90% of these fights are not patchwerk style fights. The only true patchwerk style fight so far is the butcher.

- - - Updated - - -

When were those tests? The streams I've seen after all the nerfs (especially to the initially far too strong Chi Explosion), and some testing of guildies on the Beta (only random groups, though) have shown monk to be mediocre on pure single target. Though almost all bosses have some aoe and/or cleave added, and that's were WWs shine.
And you can't compare single target sims with those scenarios and say they are "fucked up". But I agree people tend to give them too much attention and try to read something into them which isn't there.

[e] It's basically the same:
Person A: OMG we are so low in [single target] sims we're going to get benched. Buffz now plxplx!
Person B: OMG look at actual numbers of bosses [with different mechanics, which are in 80%+ adds or multiple bosses] compared to the [single target] sims, they are nothing alike! Sims are all wrong!

Check my twitch for the butcher, and you can see where I was on skada before the death into the burn. I have also posted logs of all the normals in High Maul for comparison purposes. I'll be streaming more when more content is available for testing.

[Jugaal]

Random question but how does one attack now without weapons being used? Jab glyph or no jab glyph my monk still attacks with weapons in hand. Is it the fact that one of the weapons is a fist wep?

Fist weapons don't show on a monk, wether you have the glyph or not. Unless they did something with it in WoD.