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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Now that is interesting. But do single targets still have a 10 star cap or will it become 20 to match for the 30 increase?
    It's unclear in the patch notes, but it's safe to say single target would be a 10 star cap, else they would have to increase the duration of starfall to 30seconds or make it insanely bursty, hitting 3 times per second.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by officerlahey View Post
    It's unclear in the patch notes, but it's safe to say single target would be a 10 star cap, else they would have to increase the duration of starfall to 30seconds or make it insanely bursty, hitting 3 times per second.
    They could make this change to PvE, and not for PvP, I'd be more than happy to see this.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by restoxpresso View Post
    They could make this change to PvE, and not for PvP, I'd be more than happy to see this.
    While they have done this is the past, pvp and pve having different functions, its usually a last resort and avoided. Tbh I like having a single tar and aoe talent if thats what this turns out to be.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by officerlahey View Post
    While they have done this is the past, pvp and pve having different functions, its usually a last resort and avoided. Tbh I like having a single tar and aoe talent if thats what this turns out to be.
    True.

    I need clarification though. I don't see any "right" talent for Balance? Does this mean that we'll only have 2 lvl 100 talents?
    http://i.imgur.com/iDPqwuA.png

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by officerlahey View Post
    and starsurge now generates like 50 energy?
    Starsurge generates an additional 10 Lunar or Solar energy, shouldn't it be 30/60?

  6. #66
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who thinks hurricane / astral storm charging mushrooms is bad design?

    The purpose of mushrooms it for BURST AOE damage (think orbs on lei shen, or adds on sha of pride) ...now I dunno about your guilds, but in mine they die within SECONDS. All those incinerates, mindsears and swipes I don't even get a full duration hurricane on the adds. Now if Hurricane/AS is the only thing to charge them, I either need to weave them into my single target rotation to power up before the aoe is needed, or I get a 4 second hurricane channel, and hope I can explode the shrooms before everything dies.

    WTB Mushroom power up via dots and/or wrath/starfire damage.

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by restoxpresso View Post
    True.

    I need clarification though. I don't see any "right" talent for Balance? Does this mean that we'll only have 2 lvl 100 talents?
    http://i.imgur.com/iDPqwuA.png
    It just means that Equinox hasn't changed

  8. #68
    Anyone else thinks that the Perks sound rather stupid especially the part about getting them by RNG?
    *DING* nice a new perk and I get "Enhanced Mushrooms" :/ just what i need to level instead of Improved Starfire/Wrath....

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Now that is interesting. But do single targets still have a 10 star cap or will it become 20 to match for the 30 increase?
    Think of it like this: Starfall doesn't actually have a "Stars" cap. It just ticks once per second for ten seconds on up to two targets. The perk makes it hit 1 more target.

    Personally i like the combined effects of the armor and Frenzy perks. Maybe i should rename my druid to Obelix.
    Last edited by huth; 2014-04-04 at 02:28 PM.

  10. #70
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    The new IS seems a little counter-intuitive to me. By the time you can access it, you already have Enhanced Starsurge as well, so you'll never be more than 3 casts away from your next Eclipse. Since IS will last for 15s, it'll still have half its duration to go upon hitting Eclipse and it hasn't really shortened your getting there.

    I'm also worried that it'll act like the new Hurricane / AS, which function like LS did, essentially reducing your Eclipse time.

    EDIT: Upon thinking on this, all I can really come up with is that, if it does still generate Eclipse energy whilst in an Eclipse, it will help to artificially increase NG uptime, but it'll have to deal huge amounts of pain to be worth it against Equinox.
    Last edited by Mystikal; 2014-04-04 at 02:52 PM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Meldon View Post
    Quality of life you say?

    Enhanced Starsurge - Your Starsurge generates an additional 10 Lunar or Solar energy.
    Will make every balance druid waste a lot of SS procs if you choose to take the talent "Insect Swarm"

    Insect Swarm - The old dot, nothing new, can be casted only while not in eclipse and generates eclipse power
    Will make eclipse more unpredictable, and if 2 SS procs are all you need to reach the other eclipse, as soon as we get more Crit Rating it will be impossible to not waste dozens of procs to

    Enhanced Storms - Every 1 sec, your Hurricane and Astral Storm will generate 10 Lunar or Solar energy, whichever is more beneficial to you.
    Moonkins always complained that hurricane is low damage and eat nature grace uptime, they make it move the eclipse bar.
    WTF the more you channel it the faster you exit from eclipse making it deal a lot less damage?

    Enhanced Mushrooms - Each time your Hurricane or Astral Storm deals damage, your Wild Mushrooms will grow, dealing 5% additional damage, up to a maximum of 300%.
    We suck at dealing AoE damage because hurricane is too low dmg and they ask us to waste time planting 3 Mushrooms while everyone else in the raid deals insane damage, then start to hurricane (that will bring us out eclipse nerfing the Shrooms damage) and then detonate, ALL OF THAT PRAYING THAT THE TANK DIDN'T MOVE THE ADDS !!!



    Conclusion?
    NOT a single druid will ever choose a talent other than EQUINOX:
    - 100% uptime eclipse benefit the new Hurricane because you can't be moved by it outside eclipse nerfing your own damage
    - SuF/MF passive damage increase doesn't benefit the talent Insect Swarm
    - Incarnation 100% uptime with the talent
    - Choosing another talent means that while not in eclipse 2 Starsurge (50 energy each) brings you into eclipse giving you no time to cast Insect Swarm, or wasting SS procs to cast it.





    ----

    forgot to mention that while "pruning abilities" they took away a versatile raid cooldown / survival ability for druids: Symbiosis to replace with another spell that Feral and Guardian druids already had: Survival Instict....won't affect balance survivability and won't reduce keybings for us, but took away a cooldown from Ferals and Guardians and Raid Utility.
    Lol, do you even play moonkin? The biggest problem is that doing anything that doesn't advance to the next eclipse/NG (moving, AOE) is hugely detrimental. Insect swarm, hurricane changes, SS will all help with that and make the gameplay less clunky when you can't Turret or multidot for SS procs. Equinox looks like the weakest talent to me. A couple extra eclipsed Starfires is nice, I guess.
    Last edited by Pennoyer; 2014-04-04 at 03:26 PM.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks hurricane / astral storm charging mushrooms is bad design?

    The purpose of mushrooms it for BURST AOE damage (think orbs on lei shen, or adds on sha of pride) ...now I dunno about your guilds, but in mine they die within SECONDS. All those incinerates, mindsears and swipes I don't even get a full duration hurricane on the adds. Now if Hurricane/AS is the only thing to charge them, I either need to weave them into my single target rotation to power up before the aoe is needed, or I get a 4 second hurricane channel, and hope I can explode the shrooms before everything dies.

    WTB Mushroom power up via dots and/or wrath/starfire damage.

    Disagree. Moonkin have decent burst aoe because hurricane ticks very quickly, preshrooming, while losing a lot of single target damage also makes for great burst aoe if needed in an encounter. Moonkins struggle greatly with sustained aoe of ~5+ targets, because nature's grace falls off, to the point that eclipse dotting w/ NG buff then pushing a new eclipse was better sustained aoe. Look at galakras for example if you disagree with this.

    You also do not know if this shroom will be a dps copy of the resto shroom (being moveable and holding the power). This adds some depth to the boring aoe rotation atm.

    Anyone else sad that dot acceleration was cut? looked kinda fun, maybe gimmicky though idk.
    Last edited by Aboubacar; 2014-04-04 at 03:25 PM.

  13. #73
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by officerlahey View Post
    Disagree. Moonkin have decent burst aoe because hurricane ticks very quickly, preshrooming, while losing a lot of single target damage also makes for great burst aoe if needed in an encounter. Moonkins struggle greatly with sustained aoe of ~5+ targets, because nature's grace falls off, to the point that eclipse dotting w/ NG buff then pushing a new eclipse was better sustained aoe. Look at galakras for example if you disagree with this.

    You also do not know if this shroom will be a dps copy of the resto shroom (being moveable and holding the power). This adds some depth to the boring aoe rotation atm.

    Anyone else sad that dot acceleration was cut? looked kinda fun, maybe gimmicky though idk.
    So either you dont play a boomkin, or you dont play with shamans, locks, spriests, feral druids, arms warrior or any other class. Our aoe burst or sustained is not even close to 'decent'.

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    So either you dont play a boomkin, or you dont play with shamans, locks, spriests, feral druids, arms warrior or any other class. Our aoe burst or sustained is not even close to 'decent'.
    Try not to be insulting please... I could easily say that you don't know how to burst aoe. I said decent, not best. If you play it right you can snipe the aoe a lot faster than other classes because of how fast hurricane ticks. Hurricane also scales very well with haste. Not to mention AoE has been pretty unimportant outside of parsing most of the expansion.

    Sustained aoe is the weakest point, not burst, and that's all I was trying to say.

  15. #75
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by officerlahey View Post
    Try not to be insulting please... I could easily say that you don't know how to burst aoe. I said decent, not best. If you play it right you can snipe the aoe a lot faster than other classes because of how fast hurricane ticks. Hurricane also scales very well with haste. Not to mention AoE has been pretty unimportant outside of parsing most of the expansion.

    Sustained aoe is the weakest point, not burst, and that's all I was trying to say.
    I'm fully aware of 'how to aoe' but even when executed perfectly, its lackluster compared to many if not all other classes. - People like you saying it's 'decent' is one of the reason we have to wait for a new expansion for it to be fixed. We were 'OP' in cata, and nerfed through the floor (aoe -wise) for all of mop. Sustained aoe is the worst of it, but one mushroom detonate + a cycle of hurricane is hardly good. Compare it to the numbers you can pull thrash+swiping as feral, or simply mind searing as a Sp and tell me its competitive.

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    I'm fully aware of 'how to aoe' but even when executed perfectly, its lackluster compared to many if not all other classes. - People like you saying it's 'decent' is one of the reason we have to wait for a new expansion for it to be fixed. We were 'OP' in cata, and nerfed through the floor (aoe -wise) for all of mop. Sustained aoe is the worst of it, but one mushroom detonate + a cycle of hurricane is hardly good. Compare it to the numbers you can pull thrash+swiping as feral, or simply mind searing as a Sp and tell me its competitive.
    I complained the entire xpac about the 30yard range and small radius of hurricane just not working on so many fights. Adds move - we are stuck tab dotting on stuff. It's a frustrating spell that only became "decent" as I said in SoO. Mind sear is boring but its targetting mechanic makes it very nice to have.

    Anyway, not going to freak out too much till this hits beta for a bit. Need to see if aoe is even relevant. Usually multidotting has been much more useful of a niche to excel in. All of MoP I can't remember wiping to anything but Lei Shen because adds died to slow. Hard to judge how good your aoe is based on mechanics changes? Just how frustrating it will be to channel a spell again :P but at least it generates energy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Someone should ask the devs to make haste affect the shapeshifting global. Having 2x the gcd for incarn feels crappy.

    theres a leveling perk of 100% increased armor on moonkin form. In addition to the current 100%? Is this why we get 1 charge of SI compared to the 2 feral/guardian get?
    Last edited by Aboubacar; 2014-04-04 at 03:55 PM.

  17. #77
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    I don't understand the point of IS being a cast time, unless it does crazy damage. If you look at the tooltip it says Instant cast on the left under the mana cast, and then 1.5 sec cast on the right. I wanted Starfall scrapped last expansion, so a talent that just gives me more of it is annoying. It's boring, requires no skill/strategy to use, and often will just hit things you don't want it to. If it still splashed and was a legit AoE spell, then the Sunfall talent would be cool because it would gives us a viable AoE option regardless of the Eclipse we're in.

    I already miss the 400% increased dot damage talent

  18. #78
    One thing to keep in mind: At 0% haste, Hurricane generates 200 eclipse power in 15 seconds(unless you have equinox, then it's 20 seconds). We can actually perpetually AoE at 100 and permanently keep up NG while doing so.
    We might not do the most damage, but damn it, we are going to sit here and keep doing it till everythings turned to fine dust.*rotate arms above head*

    As for the shroom perk, i think it's supposed to be for tactical gameplay, not so much for improved AE. Set them up when you need a big burst at a specific time, but damage before that doesn't matter as much. Also remember that talking about numbers is pointless right now, the mechanics are what matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    I don't understand the point of IS being a cast time, unless it does crazy damage. If you look at the tooltip it says Instant cast on the left under the mana cast, and then 1.5 sec cast on the right. I wanted Starfall scrapped last expansion, so a talent that just gives me more of it is annoying. It's boring, requires no skill/strategy to use, and often will just hit things you don't want it to. If it still splashed and was a legit AoE spell, then the Sunfall talent would be cool because it would gives us a viable AoE option regardless of the Eclipse we're in.

    I already miss the 400% increased dot damage talent
    It wasn't 400% increased DoT damage, it was 400% increased tick rate. It was also channeled, so you couldn't do anything else during it. I'm not surprised to see it gone.


    IS is supposed to do crazy high damage, too. I wouldn't get to hung up on the cast time for now.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    I don't understand the point of IS being a cast time, unless it does crazy damage. If you look at the tooltip it says Instant cast on the left under the mana cast, and then 1.5 sec cast on the right. I wanted Starfall scrapped last expansion, so a talent that just gives me more of it is annoying. It's boring, requires no skill/strategy to use, and often will just hit things you don't want it to. If it still splashed and was a legit AoE spell, then the Sunfall talent would be cool because it would gives us a viable AoE option regardless of the Eclipse we're in.

    I already miss the 400% increased dot damage talent
    its a tier 100 talent i highly doubt it will do insignificant damage. 1.5sec = gcd timer iirc, with 5% raid haste and a tiny bit on gear it will be insignificant. While sunfall sounds lazy and boring the new 3 target cap, 30stars makes in pretty crazy idk

  20. #80
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    One thing to keep in mind: At 0% haste, Hurricane generates 200 eclipse power in 15 seconds(unless you have equinox, then it's 20 seconds). We can actually perpetually AoE at 100 and permanently keep up NG while doing so.
    We might not do the most damage, but damn it, we are going to sit here and keep doing it till everythings turned to fine dust.*rotate arms above head*

    As for the shroom perk, i think it's supposed to be for tactical gameplay, not so much for improved AE. Set them up when you need a big burst at a specific time, but damage before that doesn't matter as much. Also remember that talking about numbers is pointless right now, the mechanics are what matters.



    The thing with AOE is it almost always has to burst. Otherwise you'd just multi dot it. I can't think of any scenario where I'd want to aoe casually, then burst shrooms later. If you want to hit many things hard a fast - you must hit many things slowly with wet noodles first. Just doesn't seem right to me.

    Either let them charge from other sources, be it DOTs, or single target dps. Or let them be placed with a slow auto charge, capping at 15seconds etc, the longer they been down the harder they hit when you explode them.

    As things stand now, mechanic wise - by the time you'd done enough hurricaning to charge them, your targets will surely die before you detonate.

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

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