Moonkin patchnotes

[Venteus]

I really hope they bring FF back to balance .

[melennia]

Happy to see Owlkin Frenzy removed, it would have caused a massive balancing issue for PvE. In terms of PvP every class is getting a lot of abilities taken away but since no one knows how PvP is even going to play out in WoD there's not much point complaining about things until beta is out and people are actively testing/balancing PvP.

Exactly what i said to myself when i saw the change.

[Mystikal]

I'm concerned about Moonkin Aura. The updated notes have it down as no longer providing haste, but there doesn't seem to be any note of what it will provide. This currently leaves Balance providing only one buff, namely Mark of the Wild.

[huth]

There might just not be a Moonkin Aura in WoD. We'll see. Besides, MotW now provides Versatility, so we still buff 2 stats.

[Mystikal]

There might just not be a Moonkin Aura in WoD. We'll see. Besides, MotW now provides Versatility, so we still buff 2 stats.

True, but if you look at Shadowpriests (our counterpart, essentially), they still bring haste as well as multistrike and stamina, along with an improved Vampiric Embrace and a similar capacity to off-heal. Given the prevalence of stats and versatility buffs, I don't think it's unfair to say we're now severely lacking in raid utility compared to others.

[Reveries1]

The charges on Survival Instincts are only for guardian. we have one

That was before. Now they took away barkskin and might of ors and removed the guardian/feral restrictions for the 2 charges.

[huth]

True, but if you look at Shadowpriests (our counterpart, essentially), they still bring haste as well as multistrike and stamina, along with an improved Vampiric Embrace and a similar capacity to off-heal. Given the prevalence of stats and versatility buffs, I don't think it's unfair to say we're now severely lacking in raid utility compared to others.

Versatility doesn't seem that prevalent to me. We're also both the only ranged spec to bring it as well as the only class that always has it regardless of spec and the only non-plate class to have it. It's not that hard to make a 10 man that has no plate DPS.

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Astral Showers no longer increases direct dmg.[...](source)

Can't say i'm suprised.

[Lora]

So apparently blizzard enjoys castrating druids according to those patch notes. What the fuck blizzard. We only have survival instincts as a defensive? Really? Not to mention the loss of owklin frenzy and hibernate. Innervate is whatever since we never go oom for dpsing unless we spam hurricane but it is another utility loss. One defensive doesn't cut it, even if it has two charges in a 2m period. We already lost a lot of defense with the removal of symbiosis.

- - - Updated - - -

+ natures grasp, natures swiftness, and faerie fire

[Dreyen]

So apparently blizzard enjoys castrating druids according to those patch notes. What the fuck blizzard. We only have survival instincts as a defensive? Really? Not to mention the loss of owklin frenzy and hibernate. Innervate is whatever since we never go oom for dpsing unless we spam hurricane but it is another utility loss. One defensive doesn't cut it, even if it has two charges in a 2m period. We already lost a lot of defense with the removal of symbiosis.

When i talked with blizz on twitter they said running oom from doing aoe shouldn't happen anymore. Double survival instinct is quite enough TBH, especialy with renewal... As sad as i am to lose nature's swiftness, we were really, really durable in PvE. Seems like healing touch will still heal for a lot if you bother to cast it though.

I think it's also safe to assume its alpha and things will change... With all these slow casttimes, casters needing to stand in place, etc... i forsee that you might see a big nerf coming to interrupts soon.

[Criminalle]

When i talked with blizz on twitter they said running oom from doing aoe shouldn't happen anymore. Double survival instinct is quite enough TBH, especialy with renewal... As sad as i am to lose nature's swiftness, we were really, really durable in PvE. Seems like healing touch will still heal for a lot if you bother to cast it though.

I think it's also safe to assume its alpha and things will change... With all these slow casttimes, casters needing to stand in place, etc... i forsee that you might see a big nerf coming to interrupts soon.

OF removal was hard, the new versions instant heal/dps was great for mobility defense and moblity deeps, ihope that part of the spell gets integrated into something.

The did remove all silences from interrupts. so none of that improved counter-spell-u-cast-nothing nonsense.

[Lora]

When i talked with blizz on twitter they said running oom from doing aoe shouldn't happen anymore. Double survival instinct is quite enough TBH, especialy with renewal... As sad as i am to lose nature's swiftness, we were really, really durable in PvE. Seems like healing touch will still heal for a lot if you bother to cast it though.

I think it's also safe to assume its alpha and things will change... With all these slow casttimes, casters needing to stand in place, etc... i forsee that you might see a big nerf coming to interrupts soon.

Balance offers pretty much no utility now though. We lost tranq. We lost innervate. We only really bring a battle res and roar to the table now but a lot more classes can bring that and more.

[Mystikal]

I just hope they change SI for Balance so that it doesn't shift you into Bear Form. I don't want to go back to being the one DPS spec who loses all their DPS the moment they need a defensive cooldown.

[lappee]

I just hope they change SI for Balance so that it doesn't shift you into Bear Form. I don't want to go back to being the one DPS spec who loses all their DPS the moment they need a defensive cooldown.

Like shadow priests when they use dispersion or hunters with deterrence? or mages with ice block?

The concept of losing/stopping dps when going defensive is fine, and should stay that way.

[huth]

Balance offers pretty much no utility now though. We lost tranq. We lost innervate. We only really bring a battle res and roar to the table now but a lot more classes can bring that and more.

Care to list the other classes that bring a group wide 60% speed boost? Because i don't know of any.

[timmytompadderham]

Like shadow priests when they use dispersion or hunters with deterrence? or mages with ice block?

The concept of losing/stopping dps when going defensive is fine, and should stay that way.

No it's not. It's not nearly as strong as those abilities. Even bubble allows you to continue to dps. Die by the sword does too. Hunters have a passive 10% DR at all times on top of that lol. Rogues continue to dps with cloak and evasion up with no downside and they are both better defensives than SI. Having to drop form is disgusting. It's funny how they make all these nice QoL changes allowing you to do more and more in form then decide to go back to the dark ages and bring back annoying abilities that do shit like that.

You realize mages have a talent that makes them immune to all damage and is off the gcd and can be used while casting another spell? Yet the druids have to drop a bunch of globals on their cds. Hopefully putting you in bear is just a placeholder version of SI from the old feral one.


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Care to list the other classes that bring a group wide 60% speed boost? Because i don't know of any.

60% is usually trivial. Most classes have far better personals that are spammable like feathers, burst of speed, blink+blazing speed and so on. If you don't have a druid I'm pretty sure they are changing the drums to do the same thing.

[huth]

60% is usually trivial. Most classes have far better personals that are spammable like feathers, burst of speed, blink+blazing speed and so on. If you don't have a druid I'm pretty sure they are changing the drums to do the same thing.

It's far from trivial, Burst of Speed is less than 10% faster, Feathers are slightly above 10%. Blink and Blazing Speed are both slower.
Most classes that have speed boosts have limitations on them that make them non-spammable. Some classes do not have any at all, and all you listed apart from Blink are talents. Drums are still 15%.

[timmytompadderham]

It's far from trivial, Burst of Speed is less than 10% faster, Feathers are slightly above 10%. Blink and Blazing Speed are both slower.
Most classes that have speed boosts have limitations on them that make them non-spammable. Some classes do not have any at all, and all you listed apart from Blink are talents. Drums are still 15%.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108843/blazing-speed
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=1953

150% movement speed is slower? instantly moving 20 yards x2 is slower? there's just resto/ele shamans and deathknights with awful mobility these days. rest of classes are fine and in a 20man enviroment they could easily be covered by a tiger's lust, speed sheid, feather, leap of faith. etc. It's definitely trivial (in 5.4). Quite surprising that feathers and burst of speed movement speed % isnt being nerfed lol.

edit, 28yrds x2 trivial 15sec cd. Druids used to be a class with good mobility. Now next to the worst only better than dks and ele. t15 talents need a big buff.

[lappee]

No it's not. It's not nearly as strong as those abilities. Even bubble allows you to continue to dps. Die by the sword does too. Hunters have a passive 10% DR at all times on top of that lol. Rogues continue to dps with cloak and evasion up with no downside and they are both better defensives than SI. Having to drop form is disgusting. It's funny how they make all these nice QoL changes allowing you to do more and more in form then decide to go back to the dark ages and bring back annoying abilities that do shit like that.

You realize mages have a talent that makes them immune to all damage and is off the gcd and can be used while casting another spell? Yet the druids have to drop a bunch of globals on their cds. Hopefully putting you in bear is just a placeholder version of SI from the old feral one.

Its a trade off between surviving and dpsing. Its the same reason why blizzard wants to remove casting while moving. The fact that other classes currently have immunities and such doesnt mean they have them in WoD (clearly, i havent really read any of the class changes apart from moonkins)

Quality of life changes are changes like travel form and aquatic form going into one button. Taking away decision between DPS and Survivability is not. If they wanted us to survive stuff with one button press on right time, then there would be more mechanics like Ultraxions fading light

Ofcourse, this is just my personal opinion.

[timmytompadderham]

Its a trade off between surviving and dpsing. Its the same reason why blizzard wants to remove casting while moving. The fact that other classes currently have immunities and such doesnt mean they have them in WoD (clearly, i havent really read any of the class changes apart from moonkins)

Quality of life changes are changes like travel form and aquatic form going into one button. Taking away decision between DPS and Survivability is not. If they wanted us to survive stuff with one button press on right time, then there would be more mechanics like Ultraxions fading light

Ofcourse, this is just my personal opinion.

There's been 0 changes to rogue survivability cds during the entire alpha process. Most melee continue to just tunnel damage and pop their off-gcd resource-free defensive cds. Why would you want this for your own spec when most others don't have that same kind of crap to deal with? Most people that do have FULL immunities or nearly. Not to mention the fact that shapeshifting GCD is not reduced by haste making it feel disgusting to ever have to shapeshift or even pop incarnation mid-combat.

If shapeshifting global was reduced in haste in WoD this would not be as much of an issue.

[huth]

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=108843/blazing-speed
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=1953

150% movement speed is slower? instantly moving 20 yards x2 is slower? there's just resto/ele shamans and deathknights with awful mobility these days. rest of classes are fine and in a 20man enviroment they could easily be covered by a tiger's lust, speed sheid, feather, leap of faith. etc. It's definitely trivial (in 5.4). Quite surprising that feathers and burst of speed movement speed % isnt being nerfed lol.

edit, 28yrds x2 trivial 15sec cd. Druids used to be a class with good mobility. Now next to the worst only better than dks and ele. t15 talents need a big buff.

+150% for 1.5s + 6.5 seconds of normal movement < 8s at +60%
20y + 8s of normal movement < 8s at +60%.(7y base speed, 20y ~ 3s movement. Would still be less at 28y)
Rapid Displacement and Blink are both major glyphs. You're not going to find many raiding mages with both.

Both are also much more heavily affected by mistiming. If you miss 1s of Roar, you hardly notice. If you lose 1s of Blazing, you basically lost the CD, and if you mistime Blink you're in the wrong position. Both are also personal Get-out-of-Shit-THIS-INSTANT-CDs, while Roar is a group movement tool.

Druids can still move at 150% base speed indefinitely with Feline Swiftness, Cat Form and boot enchant. Plus Dash on top of that. We can take mobility from mages and beat them to death with it.