1. #1481
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raika View Post
    doing 26k dps on the mythic dummy, only 19-21k with other classes :3
    How do you test that, without addons? Even without a CombatLog...

  2. #1482
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    How do you test that, without addons? Even without a CombatLog...
    Addons work on beta and you can collect logs

  3. #1483
    High Overlord Whyevernot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raika View Post
    doing 26k dps on the mythic dummy, only 19-21k with other classes :3
    Which dummy? Because you have yo remember that sunfire spreads to other targets, which is a damage boost.

  4. #1484
    Field Marshal Druidboii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    How do you test that, without addons? Even without a CombatLog...
    I don't think he was doing it w/o add-ons. Was most likely using skada or recount.

    And I'm averaging the same 26k w/ pre-made level 100. On the Stand-alone level 103 target Dummy.

  5. #1485
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    So I've currently tested 3 scenarios on beta:
    Singletarget, two targets spread and AoE.

    All of these tests were done in Shattrath with Soul of the Forest, the cauldron buffs, using the (in my eyes) optimal combination of the premade lvl 100 pvp gear, enchanted with mastery. Also in none of these tests did I use Celestial Alignment since it is bugged. All tests were about 3minute fights.

    Singletarget: ~28k dps.
    Between Stellar Flare and Balance of Power, stellar flare definitely seems like the better option as I'm only getting about 26k dps with Balance of Power. Euphoria is currently not working so I cannot compare that. The rotation is fairly simple once you figure out the timings from how fast the eclipse bar goes. 1x Moonfire at max lunar, 2x Stellar Flare and Sunfire in the middle. Starsurge usage is kind of weird since the majority of it's benefit comes from the buff to SF/Wrath. Generally I get 2 Starsurges in lunar and 1 in solar, sometimes 2 depending on procs. If you are having trouble adjusting to the spec or completely new it, I would advice playing with Balance of Power, because that talent makes the rotation ridiculously easy.
    Singletarget log

    2 spread targets: 38-40k dps.
    I tested this with both Stellar Flare and Balance of Power and once again Stellar Flare seems the way to go. It didn't seem possible to me to keep Moon/Sunfire rolling on 2 targets without ever refreshing them using Balance of Power. Also on 2 targets if you use Stellar Flare it will be your highest damage spell. Refreshing sunfire 2x per target in solar seemed the way to go. Also since you spend 6 globals and 4 stellar flares nor casting nukes in your 40 second rotation, you might end up with too many SS procs, which you can properly use by using Starfall midway through lunar. Aside from that it's a lot like singletarget rotation x2.
    Two-target log

    Aoe: 150-160k dps.
    Tested only with Stellar Flare. The way the dummies are set up here (4 packs of 5) it seemed best to sunfire 4x at max solar, moonfire near max lunar on as many as possible, keep up Starfall as much as possible and definitely in the lunar phase and fill the mid-eclipse regions with Stellar Flare. This is only based on a couple of 3min tests though.
    AoE log (Me and lolkinboy tried different methods, his turned out to be better.)

  6. #1486
    Field Marshal Druidboii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    Also in none of these tests did I use Celestial Alignment since it is bugged.
    What's bugged about it right now? (Just curious)

  7. #1487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Druidboii View Post
    What's bugged about it right now? (Just curious)
    I posted about this a couple of times before, basically instead of giving 100% benefit from solar/lunar eclipse it gives 0%, making it a dps loss in most situations.

  8. #1488
    Field Marshal Druidboii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    I posted about this a couple of times before, basically instead of giving 100% benefit from solar/lunar eclipse it gives 0%, making it a dps loss in most situations.
    Oh shit, I didn't even notice that

  9. #1489
    Well Elvui messing around with the normal energy tracker of blizzard, and the elvui one is annoying without see numbers.
    Any1 found a addon like Balance Power Tracker, that works with the beta? (Or at least how to see numbers on elvui's enrgy tacker, or even how to keep blizzard default enrgy tracker)
    Last edited by omri1212000; 2014-07-20 at 09:06 AM.

  10. #1490
    Dreadlord lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miraclous View Post
    If you are having trouble adjusting to the spec or completely new it, I would advice playing with Balance of Power, because that talent makes the rotation ridiculously easy.
    Went to test out a little, enchanted gear, made castsequence macro and pulled 25-26k constant standstill dps with Stellar flare. Only "problem" that i faced with running one macro was efficient starsurge usage. Using castsequence macro limited me from using 3½ starsurges per cycle (aka one cycle with 2+2 and one with 2+1 surges) so had to run full test with just 3 SS per cycle (meaning, i was wasting SS's)

    WCL link
    Had some problems with the macro getting stuck on sunfire for some reason (twice during the 20min test) but you can just check the first 7mins / last 7 mins for the average dps

    No idea if my SS usage was even efficient with the 3 SS per cycle method (aka if it used them at the optimal time) but thats easy to fix.

    Now im just waiting for some1 to make an addon that shows whats the best spell to use, should be rather easy.

  11. #1491
    High Overlord Whyevernot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Went to test out a little, enchanted gear, made castsequence macro and pulled 25-26k constant standstill dps with Stellar flare. Only "problem" that i faced with running one macro was efficient starsurge usage. Using castsequence macro limited me from using 3½ starsurges per cycle (aka one cycle with 2+2 and one with 2+1 surges) so had to run full test with just 3 SS per cycle (meaning, i was wasting SS's)

    WCL link
    Had some problems with the macro getting stuck on sunfire for some reason (twice during the 20min test) but you can just check the first 7mins / last 7 mins for the average dps

    No idea if my SS usage was even efficient with the 3 SS per cycle method (aka if it used them at the optimal time) but thats easy to fix.

    Now im just waiting for some1 to make an addon that shows whats the best spell to use, should be rather easy.
    Yeah it does seem very easy, i ended up counting starfires and wraths, which resulted in near perfect casting of stellar flare everytime.

    I actually dislike the long cast time on starfire, but part of that is rolling with like 8% haste on beta.

    Sad to see that our rotation can be run with an addon... XD

  12. #1492
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whyevernot View Post
    Yeah it does seem very easy, i ended up counting starfires and wraths, which resulted in near perfect casting of stellar flare everytime.

    I actually dislike the long cast time on starfire, but part of that is rolling with like 8% haste on beta.

    Sad to see that our rotation can be run with an addon... XD
    My main gripe with flare is on multi target. Yes it hits HARD but having to CAST a DOT on more than 1 target, knowing each one is weaker than the last (or ideally 1 weak, 1 perfect, 1 weak again) just feels scummy.

    Would you be in favour of the DPET being toned down just a touch in order to make flare instant cast like moonfire etc? The inital damage would have to be lessened quite a bit so you don't spam it for that bang damage, but if you put the majority of damage in the ticks I can't see a problem with it.

    Perhaps it would need a 'can only affect upto 3 targets at once' type thing to stop it being spammed on every in pvp, or will that be the way to go anyway, even with the hard cast version? (Could see pvp rotation devolving to flare everything, sunfire in solar, starfall in lunar but dont bother casting moonfire cause you want to start precasting flare again for max uptime).

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  13. #1493
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    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Went to test out a little, enchanted gear, made castsequence macro and pulled 25-26k constant standstill dps with Stellar flare. Only "problem" that i faced with running one macro was efficient starsurge usage. Using castsequence macro limited me from using 3½ starsurges per cycle (aka one cycle with 2+2 and one with 2+1 surges) so had to run full test with just 3 SS per cycle (meaning, i was wasting SS's)

    WCL link
    Had some problems with the macro getting stuck on sunfire for some reason (twice during the 20min test) but you can just check the first 7mins / last 7 mins for the average dps

    No idea if my SS usage was even efficient with the 3 SS per cycle method (aka if it used them at the optimal time) but thats easy to fix.

    Now im just waiting for some1 to make an addon that shows whats the best spell to use, should be rather easy.
    I agree that the singletarget rotation, no matter what talent you use, is very straight forward. As you somewhat hinted to, optimal SS usage is the only thing that will show as a consistent damage difference between lower tier or top tier players on a patchwerk dummy imo (and even then idk if that's going to be a significant difference).

    That's also why I'm looking forward to Monday's Boss testing, to see how things work out in a real raiding environment. If movement and differing amounts of mobs don't change this renewed spec from easy to learn, takes-4-hours-to-master, I'll be sure to give that feedback to blizz as well.

    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    My main gripe with flare is on multi target. Yes it hits HARD but having to CAST a DOT on more than 1 target, knowing each one is weaker than the last (or ideally 1 weak, 1 perfect, 1 weak again) just feels scummy.

    Would you be in favour of the DPET being toned down just a touch in order to make flare instant cast like moonfire etc? The inital damage would have to be lessened quite a bit so you don't spam it for that bang damage, but if you put the majority of damage in the ticks I can't see a problem with it.

    Perhaps it would need a 'can only affect upto 3 targets at once' type thing to stop it being spammed on every in pvp, or will that be the way to go anyway, even with the hard cast version? (Could see pvp rotation devolving to flare everything, sunfire in solar, starfall in lunar but dont bother casting moonfire cause you want to start precasting flare again for max uptime).
    It being an instant cast doesn't change anything about the fact that one Stellar Flare will always be stronger than the other though. I'm not really in favor of your proposed changes.
    Last edited by Miraclous; 2014-07-20 at 11:10 AM.

  14. #1494
    With Addons enabled, is it possibly to hide the eclipse animation above the char? It is gamebreaking annoying to me

  15. #1495
    High Overlord Whyevernot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtramuscle View Post
    My main gripe with flare is on multi target. Yes it hits HARD but having to CAST a DOT on more than 1 target, knowing each one is weaker than the last (or ideally 1 weak, 1 perfect, 1 weak again) just feels scummy.

    Would you be in favour of the DPET being toned down just a touch in order to make flare instant cast like moonfire etc? The inital damage would have to be lessened quite a bit so you don't spam it for that bang damage, but if you put the majority of damage in the ticks I can't see a problem with it.

    Perhaps it would need a 'can only affect upto 3 targets at once' type thing to stop it being spammed on every in pvp, or will that be the way to go anyway, even with the hard cast version? (Could see pvp rotation devolving to flare everything, sunfire in solar, starfall in lunar but dont bother casting moonfire cause you want to start precasting flare again for max uptime).
    On more than 2 targets i agree, stellar flare feels wierd to use, but i dont think that would change much by making it instant, i honestly feel like balance of power should be the go to when you want to dot more, but sadly it doesnt feel that way.

  16. #1496
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    It being an instant cast doesn't change anything about the fact that one Stellar Flare will always be stronger than the other though. I'm not really in favor of your proposed changes.[/QUOTE]

    It being instant would make the gap smaller. If you take stelar flare you'll want it on as many targets as possible as its your strongest spell. Being forced to cast an Xweaker spell on the Nth target makes the rotation feel crap when said spell is still stronger than your best nuke at its weakest point. If that isn't the case we'll need to know at which point it becomes a loss to put flare on instead of playing the rotation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Whyevernot View Post
    On more than 2 targets i agree, stellar flare feels wierd to use, but i dont think that would change much by making it instant, i honestly feel like balance of power should be the go to when you want to dot more, but sadly it doesnt feel that way.
    Yeah as I said in one of my earlier posts BOP FEELS strong in aoe situations, and big dungeons pulls. I'm not sure if its reflected in the logs as honestly I've logged SF (when I was playing it poorly) and haven't been back to try BOP. Seeing double dots on eveyrthing and almost maintaining them felt good, I hope its reflected in the logs when I go back and log it. I believe raid testing starts 2moro, I'll chop and change in there for better results.

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  17. #1497
    Stellar flare is single target talent.

  18. #1498
    Quote Originally Posted by Retriavenger View Post
    Stellar flare is single target talent.
    It could easily be used on up to 3 targets like V&T it would be great for and would work decent for protectors/council of elders. Moonfire and sunfire have obnoxious durations and you have plenty of time to to fill even if it isn't the perfect time to apply a flare. You can't make bold statements like this before tuning is finished and the DPET of flare at different points on the bar is calculated.

    Don't waste your or our time with obnoxious posts please.

  19. #1499
    Does Stellar Flare actually scale very much from your Eclipse position?
    As I understand the new eclipse mechanism, it would only make quite a small difference:
    If L is the lunar bonus, which goes between 0 and M (your mastery); and S is the solar bonus, going between 0 and M; then lunar spells do damage*(1+L), solar spells do damage*(1+S) and SF does damage*(1+L)*(1+S) = damage*(1+L+S+LS).
    At either end of the meter, one of L & S will equal 0 and the other will equal M. In the middle, L = S = M/2.

    End of eclipse:
    damage*(1+M+0+0*M) = damage*(1+M)

    Middle of eclipse:
    damage*(1+M/2+M/2+(M/2)^2) = damage*(1+M+M^2/4)

    The difference is only the square of your mastery divided by 4. So, for example, with M = 30% you would do 130% damage at the end of an eclipse and 132.25% damage in the middle.
    Check out these addons:
    TalentSwitch: Automatically swaps talents on your actionbars when you change talents, and updates your macros to match. Set up your own rules for changing macro text for each talent.
    DeathKnell: Touch of Death warning addon. Provides a custom HP bar to prepare you for Touch of Death becoming available, and provides a raid-warning style notification.

  20. #1500
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Now im just waiting for some1 to make an addon that shows whats the best spell to use, should be rather easy.
    I keep seeing this stated, as if it is a new problem. With existing addons that will recommend your next action (or two) based on a simulationcraft script, we've long been past that point for single target, and I suspect that is nearly true for all DPS specs.

    Edit: Yxiomel, your numbers are right. The main benefit of Flare (other than just being another strong DoT) is that it is good to cast when your other spells are weak.

    If CA were working as advertised, the boost would be significant there (1.3*1.3 = 1.69)
    Last edited by Erdluf; 2014-07-20 at 01:12 PM.

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