1. #1501
    Quote Originally Posted by Erdluf View Post
    I keep seeing this stated, as if it is a new problem. With existing addons that will recommend your next action (or two) based on a simulationcraft script, we've long been past that point for single target, and I suspect that is nearly true for all DPS specs.
    The problem with those addons currently is that in most cases they are flawed due to the decision not being as static as it seems. In the case of WoD moonkin the rotation is so static you could make one which is 100% optimal to use.

  2. #1502
    Quote Originally Posted by Erdluf View Post
    I keep seeing this stated, as if it is a new problem. With existing addons that will recommend your next action (or two) based on a simulationcraft script, we've long been past that point for single target, and I suspect that is nearly true for all DPS specs.

    Edit: Yxiomel, your numbers are right. The main benefit of Flare (other than just being another strong DoT) is that it is good to cast when your other spells are weak.

    If CA were working as advertised, the boost would be significant there (1.3*1.3 = 1.69)
    Yeah, I was really commenting on the people complaining about it getting weaker if you want to multi-DoT with it. It does, but hardly...
    It should be pretty sweet under CA when they get that working.
    Check out these addons:
    TalentSwitch: Automatically swaps talents on your actionbars when you change talents, and updates your macros to match. Set up your own rules for changing macro text for each talent.
    DeathKnell: Touch of Death warning addon. Provides a custom HP bar to prepare you for Touch of Death becoming available, and provides a raid-warning style notification.

  3. #1503
    Could you explain further, Glurp? I know that in some gear and situations (low SS proc rate) I don't want cast SS at 20 solar energy (costs me a solar wrath), but in other situations I do (too much chance of wasting a SS). However, (A) you could program that into your script (people just don't see it as worth the trouble) and (B) the new eclipse has similar, borderline, decisions (related to when to save, and when to spend SS, or when to AC for an AoE phase).

  4. #1504
    Dreadlord lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erdluf View Post
    I keep seeing this stated, as if it is a new problem. With existing addons that will recommend your next action (or two) based on a simulationcraft script, we've long been past that point for single target, and I suspect that is nearly true for all DPS specs.
    Currently such addons offer only a good option to go with, since mechanics are far more complex. In WoD removing most major breakpoints, snapshots etc, its makes creating such addon way easier. (Also, i've yet to see a good simcraft profile regarding priorities.)

    To make it easier for people to understand, take this comparison.
    MoP addon would have to consider: Current eclipse position, ongoing dot duration, ongoing dot strenght, current buffs strenght, current buff durations.
    WoD addon would have to consider: Current eclipse positon, Starsurge stack count.


    TL: DR its possible currently to make such an addon, but moonkin class has way too many layers of details that have to be taken into account. WoD takes away most of those layers making it "rather" easy in comparison to make the addon work properly for single target dmg (even multi target can be made to some extent).

  5. #1505
    Thanks, Lappe. Good explanation. For WoD I think some multi-target issues will be tough to get into an addon (tough for an addon to predict which mobs will get splashed by Sunfire, I think).

    I also think that for WoD it will be much more common to have to consider Rejuv (rather than a DoT) during movement (many DPS won't like having to make that decision). For non-trivial encounters, managing SS/SFall/CA/AC may provide some depth.

  6. #1506
    Dreadlord lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erdluf View Post
    Thanks, Lappe. Good explanation. For WoD I think some multi-target issues will be tough to get into an addon (tough for an addon to predict which mobs will get splashed by Sunfire, I think).

    I also think that for WoD it will be much more common to have to consider Rejuv (rather than a DoT) during movement (many DPS won't like having to make that decision). For non-trivial encounters, managing SS/SFall/CA/AC may provide some depth.
    Sunfire splash is pretty much the only thing i can think of that doesnt work with the addon.

    Also in WoD you dont really re-cast dots while moving. Moonfire is a nono and sunfire is acceptable to use, but Rejuv is probably better.

  7. #1507
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    (Also, i've yet to see a good simcraft profile regarding priorities.)
    Have you tried talking to Collison? He's the one that took over the balance druid simcraft or possibly Hamlet could make a good single target profile? Would help to have some accurate sims with this upcoming expansion. The ones in MoP... left a lot to be desired imo.

  8. #1508
    Dreadlord lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolsonthedruid View Post
    Have you tried talking to Collison? He's the one that took over the balance druid simcraft or possibly Hamlet could make a good single target profile? Would help to have some accurate sims with this upcoming expansion. The ones in MoP... left a lot to be desired imo.
    Havent really cared about simcraft, prefer excel spreadsheets (wrathcalcs). Could take a look at it at some point, but i doubt theres anything too hard about it. MoP priorities just needed to take into account so many little stuff that everyones mind would've exploded...

  9. #1509
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Havent really cared about simcraft, prefer excel spreadsheets (wrathcalcs). Could take a look at it at some point, but i doubt theres anything too hard about it. MoP priorities just needed to take into account so many little stuff that everyones mind would've exploded...
    yeah I think cd usage and dot refreshes were never quite right because of all that little stuff you mention. So at least removal of snapshotting is good for modelling damage, right? heh

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yxiomel View Post
    Yeah, I was really commenting on the people complaining about it getting weaker if you want to multi-DoT with it. It does, but hardly...
    It should be pretty sweet under CA when they get that working.
    I don't see how the other 2 talents benefit multidotting at all, especially w/o snapshotting and flare gives you another dot even if you can't cast it in the exact middle it's probably going to be better to throw up 3 flares than a starfire - I'd just wait for a few numbers passes to worry about this honestly. I still wish balance of power would go away or maybe even Euphoria unless it's going to shorten the cycles a lot.

  10. #1510
    Quote Originally Posted by Yxiomel View Post
    Does Stellar Flare actually scale very much from your Eclipse position?
    As I understand the new eclipse mechanism, it would only make quite a small difference.
    This. Stellar flare scales less with our eclipse position than any other dmg spell we have. These "weak" Stellar flares are a mild exaggeration. The difference between a peak solar/luna stellar flare and a 50/50 energy stellar flare is smaller than any other 2 spells cast at those 2 points.
    I remember when celestalon showed the coefficients i upset it didnt seem too rewarding(or punishing) but seeing as how strong it is for multi-doting im gladd there isn't a large drop-off

  11. #1511
    Dreadlord lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolsonthedruid View Post
    yeah I think cd usage and dot refreshes were never quite right because of all that little stuff you mention. So at least removal of snapshotting is good for modelling damage, right? heh
    Its good for modeling yeah, makes it alot easier. But then again it makes spreadsheets more accurate aswell

  12. #1512
    Quote Originally Posted by Criminalle View Post
    This. Stellar flare scales less with our eclipse position than any other dmg spell we have. These "weak" Stellar flares are a mild exaggeration. The difference between a peak solar/luna stellar flare and a 50/50 energy stellar flare is smaller than any other 2 spells cast at those 2 points.
    I remember when celestalon showed the coefficients i upset it didnt seem too rewarding(or punishing) but seeing as how strong it is for multi-doting im gladd there isn't a large drop-off
    Well I believe what happened is they took out mastery scaling from the equation altogether and added coefficients to each part of the bar as you say. I guess only warlocks get to have broken mechanics, stats, scaling, you name it. This kind of stuff is nerfed for moonkin before it even has a chance to become overpowered ((really aoe chaos bolt for 1 ember?!?)/endrant)).

  13. #1513
    Speaking of simulations, I believe a number of people have been suggesting saving one SS for Lunar.

    Cyos suggested that in his blog post, but that was before the shooting stars proc chance was doubled.

    I get slightly higher patchwork numbers if the rule is always use SS at three charges, and always use SS unless you already have the Empowerment it would give. Both rules applied after DoT maintenance.

    The qualitative reasoning is
    • SS (+ empowerment it gives) costs 1 GCD, but is worth a bit more than two Starfires
    • With mastery at 60%, a perfect-timed cast of anything is only worth at most 25% more than a cast somewhere on the correct half of the eclipse bar. The empowerment buff is always worth 30% to a cast (unless you lose it, or overwrite it)
    • Because of the previous two bullets. Patchwerk DPS is largely determined by DoT maintenance, and the number of "good" SS casts.
    • Saving SS casts substantially increases the chance that you'll lose chargers (timer resets if stacks reach three) or have to overwrite empowerment to avoid losing charges.

  14. #1514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erdluf View Post
    Speaking of simulations, I believe a number of people have been suggesting saving one SS for Lunar.

    Cyos suggested that in his blog post, but that was before the shooting stars proc chance was doubled.

    I get slightly higher patchwork numbers if the rule is always use SS at three charges, and always use SS unless you already have the Empowerment it would give. Both rules applied after DoT maintenance.

    The qualitative reasoning is
    • SS (+ empowerment it gives) costs 1 GCD, but is worth a bit more than two Starfires
    • With mastery at 60%, a perfect-timed cast of anything is only worth at most 25% more than a cast somewhere on the correct half of the eclipse bar. The empowerment buff is always worth 30% to a cast (unless you lose it, or overwrite it)
    • Because of the previous two bullets. Patchwerk DPS is largely determined by DoT maintenance, and the number of "good" SS casts.
    • Saving SS casts substantially increases the chance that you'll lose chargers (timer resets if stacks reach three) or have to overwrite empowerment to avoid losing charges.
    Currently in beta the system I use for SS, is to always use it if I can definitely get the empowered spells off in the current eclipse. Only if I am on 2 stacks leaving an eclipse and the reset timer is <10sec, then I will cast a SS while leaving eclipse.

    However it also depends on how the situation is. If I am coming into solar and I just got my first SS stack from the timer, I will save that SS for around ~80 energy for more optimal usage of the SS and its empowered spells.

    Also if you are completely saturated on SS and in lunar, it might be better to cast a Starfall-SS, than to double SS. This is because the dpet of Starfall> the dpet of a SS that isn't buffing anything even on singletarget.

  15. #1515
    Bloodsail Admiral xtramuscle's Avatar
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    BTW Both wcl and skada work for beta testing.

    Vexxe of Old School.



    Streaming MOP raids live: (14/14HC 25Man SoO) and WOD Beta (Leveling and raid testing Heoric/Mythic) @ http://www.twitch.tv/vexxee

  16. #1516
    Herald of the Titans Lilija's Avatar
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    Anyone managed to get some addons working? So far I have only Skada up. I'm looking for some buff/debuff tracking addon (I really doubt weakauras will work any time soon :P ) cause atm looking left on the eclipse bar, right on the buffs and still knowing what's happening is kinda challenging

  17. #1517
    Dreadlord lappee's Avatar
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    Most addons work just fine, just change the game version from .toc files to 60000 and from AceDB-3.0 local factionrealmregionKey = factionrealmKey .. " - " .. string.sub(GetCVar("realmList"), 1, 2):upper() into local factionrealmregionKey = factionrealmKey

    atm only Kuinameplates and msbt arent working for me.

    also atm beta doesnt load out of game textures, so you need to change them to "blizzard" from addons (if they have that) for cast bars and such.

  18. #1518
    Herald of the Titans Lilija's Avatar
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    Managed to get WeakAuras working Tried BPT but that doesn't seem to work. Any ideas what I could use instead? In worst I case I might use MoveAnything but I'd prefer some better looking eclipse tracker.

  19. #1519
    Dreadlord lappee's Avatar
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    Im using Eclipse Bar Plus, just enlarges + can move the normal eclipse bar.
    BPT obviously doesnt work since it pre-calculates bar movement based on casts, and since WoD eclipse bar is based on sine-wave... 1+1=not working

  20. #1520
    High Overlord Whyevernot's Avatar
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    I wonder when they will allow EU to copy characters to the beta...

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