Moonkin patchnotes

[Cyous]

If you're wasting time using Astral Storm in PvP you're not helping anybody..

Looking at the current Spell Power ratios...
0 (+ 23.7% of Spell power) = WM:D (94.8% when stacked to 300% bonus [284.4% for all 3 mushrooms])
0 (+ 273% of Spell power) = Starsurge

A mushroom bomb, given the ability to move shrooms freely and retain strength...hits harder than Starsurge.
And it's possible to Cyclone-> Shroom x3 (4sec left) -> **OKF proc** -> Starfall at 2sec -> Cyclone Healer (press CA) -> Starfire [instant] -> WM:D -> SS [instant] -> HT -> SS [hardcast] (if all goes well, this leaves ~1.5sec left on Cyclone on the healer, so you may fit another NS+ Root + Beam and cast Starfires into the target)

lolpvpthings.

[Miraclous]

You must not be up to date on the 90 talents for WoD. None of them are DPS based, they are all different forms of healing utility. NV is our new raid CD, HotW is going to be a very niche ability with tranquility removed because honestly, how often do you need a 6 minute cooldown that allows you to blanket rejuvs or offtank for a bit?

Readiness effecting NV would basically be like a stat which reduces the CD on a Shaman's AG this tier, which would be invaluable for some fights (Garrosh being a good example).

The healing of your NV still comes from 35% singletarget damage though, which means that mastery/crit/haste will make it stronger. HotW and DoC healing is also still benefitting from haste and crit, just like off-healing with NV up.

Also, before people are all just taking that 900% dmg for granted, its not 900%.
Suppose you have 3 mushrooms detonating for 10k dmg each, totalling 30k, unwatered. Now you buff each of those mushrooms by 300%. You now have 3 mushrooms detonating for 40k each, totalling 120k, watered. There is no 900% damage increase.

[Zareth]

I think it's unlikely that they'll allow readiness to affect a tier of talents where at least one option is a passive/proc. While I agree SotF is meh, if they made it a 25/30 second cooldown it would at least be plausible for them to make readiness affect T60 talents. Regardless, I think SotF is too RNG and a flawed talent, and it allows for more "bad" talent choices for a newer balance druid (SotF + Equinox, for example).

[lappee]

We dont even know for sure how extra damage from mushroom watering works (unless i've missed something - not that numbers are of any importance right now)
"Each time your Hurricane or Astral Storm deals damage, your Wild Mushrooms will grow, dealing 5% additional damage, up to a maximum of 300%."
Now, does the growth start from 100% aka normal damage (100%->300% ) or from extra 0% up to 300% (100%+300%= 400%)?

[Glurp]

The healing of your NV still comes from 35% singletarget damage though, which means that mastery/crit/haste will make it stronger

There is a world of difference between the total throughput you'd get from a bit of extra damage vs taking a good % chunk off the cooldown. It's not even comparable.

[Miraclous]

We dont even know for sure how extra damage from mushroom watering works (unless i've missed something - not that numbers are of any importance right now)
"Each time your Hurricane or Astral Storm deals damage, your Wild Mushrooms will grow, dealing 5% additional damage, up to a maximum of 300%."
Now, does the growth start from 100% aka normal damage (100%->300% ) or from extra 0% up to 300% (100%+300%= 400%)?

Since it says "additional damage" I am assuming it goes 100%+300%=400%, but I agree it isn't clear. It definitely doesn't go to 900% though

There is a world of difference between the total throughput you'd get from a bit of extra damage vs taking a good % chunk off the cooldown. It's not even comparable.

How do you know? We have no clue how much readiness will scale compared to the other secondary stats. I agree readiness will most likely be the best stat to scale with NV if it does, but without numbers we can only speculate.

[Cyous]

We dont even know for sure how extra damage from mushroom watering works (unless i've missed something - not that numbers are of any importance right now)
"Each time your Hurricane or Astral Storm deals damage, your Wild Mushrooms will grow, dealing 5% additional damage, up to a maximum of 300%."
Now, does the growth start from 100% aka normal damage (100%->300% ) or from extra 0% up to 300% (100%+300%= 400%)?

It'll be 100%+300%.

[lazerdollarz]

I actually don't understand why they changed SotF in the first place. Pre-5.4 or whatever when it was passive and just sped up the eclipse cycle it was a good talent with a very low skill cap which is awesome for less experienced players. It didn't have as high a damage ceiling as Inc, but it was also considerably simpler to play and was very good for fights like ooze duty on Primordius where it was completely unnecessary to ever have a burst of damage. I don't know of anybody that uses the current iteration of the talent, primarily because it's a true trash can.

[Aboubacar]

I actually don't understand why they changed SotF in the first place. Pre-5.4 or whatever when it was passive and just sped up the eclipse cycle it was a good talent with a very low skill cap which is awesome for less experienced players. It didn't have as high a damage ceiling as Inc, but it was also considerably simpler to play and was very good for fights like ooze duty on Primordius where it was completely unnecessary to ever have a burst of damage. I don't know of anybody that uses the current iteration of the talent, primarily because it's a true trash can.

Except it did next to nothing for throughput and it wasn't difficult at all for less experienced players to use the other 2 talents. The talent needs to be redone before WoD. It's needed this the entire xpac. Every iteration of it has been trash. I'd like 3 real choices in that row. I'd like Force of Nature to be better for single target as well, it should probably benefit from solar eclipse too.

[Vanos27]

Except it did next to nothing for throughput and it wasn't difficult at all for less experienced players to use the other 2 talents. The talent needs to be redone before WoD. It's needed this the entire xpac. Every iteration of it has been trash. I'd like 3 real choices in that row. I'd like Force of Nature to be better for single target as well, it should probably benefit from solar eclipse too.

What if they were to cast Wrath when you're in Solar and Starfire when in Lunar, both benefiting from your eclipse, haste and procs?

For Soul of the Forest? Hmm, how about...

Soul of the Forest - You now require 75 eclipse energy to enter an eclipse, down from 100? Values can change.
-or-
Soul of the Forest - Your spell casts have an X% chance to trigger Soul of the Forest making your next Astral Communion activate your next eclipse phase. If not in an eclipse you'll be bumped to the one you're heading towards.

Really not sure what to do with this talent but right now I never use it.

[Aboubacar]

What if they were to cast Wrath when you're in Solar and Starfire when in Lunar, both benefiting from your eclipse, haste and procs?

For Soul of the Forest? Hmm, how about...

Soul of the Forest - You now require 75 eclipse energy to enter an eclipse, down from 100? Values can change.
-or-
Soul of the Forest - Your spell casts have an X% chance to trigger Soul of the Forest making your next Astral Communion activate your next eclipse phase. If not in an eclipse you'll be bumped to the one you're heading towards.

Really not sure what to do with this talent but right now I never use it.

It should either be something completely new that has absolutely nothing to do with eclipse energy or, as I've suggested in the past:

1 minute CD. Generate 100 energy in your current "direction". A proc does not work for this talent, you need it when you need it. If it's passively speeding up the rotation the energy amount would have to be too low (remember 5.1) or too much.

Could use some real creativity for once from Blizz on this talent.

[Vanos27]

It should either be something completely new that has absolutely nothing to do with eclipse energy or, as I've suggested in the past:

1 minute CD. Generate 100 energy in your current "direction". A proc does not work for this talent, you need it when you need it. If it's passively speeding up the rotation the energy amount would have to be too low (remember 5.1) or too much.

Could use some real creativity for once from Blizz on this talent.

What I would like (might not be a popular opinion though).

Soul of the Forest - You summon a Soul of the Forest (different pet for different spec). This is a permanent pet with various abilities depending on your talent specialization.

Balance - You summon a Faerie Drake to fight by your side. Abilities could be...
-Fae Breath - Spits out a ball of magical energies dealing spellstorm damage. 40yrd range.
-Mana Flare - Causes the Faerie Dragon to channel negative magical energies that damage nearby enemies when they cast spells for X seconds. 40yrd range, X second cooldown
-Phase Shift - Causes the Faerie Drake to phase our of reality reducing damage taken by X for X seconds when health drops below X health. Can be cast on the Druid lasting X seconds. 40yrd range, 2-3 minute cooldown when cast on the Druid.

Feral - You summon a young (insert cat type here) companion to fight by your side mimicking the attacks you perform. Cannot mimic crowd control effects and heals. This companion prowls when you prowl.
If mimicking abilities you use is too overpowered it can always be given it's own arsenal.

Guardian - You summon a Protector of the Forest to aid you in combat. Any threat caused by the protector will transfer the threat to you.
-Cleave ability - Depending on what it looks like this will be it's cleave ability causing damage to up to 3 mobs in front of it. X second cooldown.
-Natural Protector - Causes the Protector to shield the Druid for X seconds absorbing all damage he/she takes for 6 seconds. 1 minute cooldown.
-Awaken - Causes the Protector to become Awakened for 6 seconds. While awakened any damage the Druid takes causes the Protector to deal that damage in a cone in front of him to all targets in range up to a maximum of X% of the Druids health per target. X second cooldown.

Restoration - Summon a Forest Lasher to aid you in combat. The Forest Lasher casts any heal over time spell the Druid casts but with X% less potency.
-Natures Embrace - Envelops your target with protective vines causing X% of damage taken to be turned into a heal over time effect lasting X seconds. X second cooldown.
-Mana Funnel - Causes the Lasher to transfer X amount of it's mana to the Druid over X seconds. 1 minute cooldown.
-Growth - Causes a friendly target to grow in size for X seconds increasing all healing received by X for X seconds. 2 minute cooldown.

I put this together fairly quickly so it might look bad now but if given the time I could probably create something better (hopefully).

Either way, ever since I learned that Druids in lore can posses many companions to aid them in whatever they do I always wondered why they've never been given the opportunity to have a permanent pet to fight along side them. Now I know that Druids weren't designed to have the potential to be a pet class but I ask why not have it now? I think it can add some great to the class if done right, especially to whoever loves the Druid class and loves pet classes as well.

Either way, it'll probably never happen but I can always dream.

[Deleted]

I actually hate playing pet classes Vanos, but I actually quite like your idea - but instead of a pet (too many classes have these atm) - I think it'd be cool if it was like a companion, so it just stayed next to you and fought what you were fighting. Also faerie drake please i want this for my owl

[earthwormjim]

What I would like (might not be a popular opinion though).

Soul of the Forest - You summon a Soul of the Forest (different pet for different spec). This is a permanent pet with various abilities depending on your talent specialization.

Balance - You summon a Faerie Drake to fight by your side. Abilities could be...
-Fae Breath - Spits out a ball of magical energies dealing spellstorm damage. 40yrd range.
-Mana Flare - Causes the Faerie Dragon to channel negative magical energies that damage nearby enemies when they cast spells for X seconds. 40yrd range, X second cooldown
-Phase Shift - Causes the Faerie Drake to phase our of reality reducing damage taken by X for X seconds when health drops below X health. Can be cast on the Druid lasting X seconds. 40yrd range, 2-3 minute cooldown when cast on the Druid.

Feral - You summon a young (insert cat type here) companion to fight by your side mimicking the attacks you perform. Cannot mimic crowd control effects and heals. This companion prowls when you prowl.
If mimicking abilities you use is too overpowered it can always be given it's own arsenal.

Guardian - You summon a Protector of the Forest to aid you in combat. Any threat caused by the protector will transfer the threat to you.
-Cleave ability - Depending on what it looks like this will be it's cleave ability causing damage to up to 3 mobs in front of it. X second cooldown.
-Natural Protector - Causes the Protector to shield the Druid for X seconds absorbing all damage he/she takes for 6 seconds. 1 minute cooldown.
-Awaken - Causes the Protector to become Awakened for 6 seconds. While awakened any damage the Druid takes causes the Protector to deal that damage in a cone in front of him to all targets in range up to a maximum of X% of the Druids health per target. X second cooldown.

Restoration - Summon a Forest Lasher to aid you in combat. The Forest Lasher casts any heal over time spell the Druid casts but with X% less potency.
-Natures Embrace - Envelops your target with protective vines causing X% of damage taken to be turned into a heal over time effect lasting X seconds. X second cooldown.
-Mana Funnel - Causes the Lasher to transfer X amount of it's mana to the Druid over X seconds. 1 minute cooldown.
-Growth - Causes a friendly target to grow in size for X seconds increasing all healing received by X for X seconds. 2 minute cooldown.

I put this together fairly quickly so it might look bad now but if given the time I could probably create something better (hopefully).

Either way, ever since I learned that Druids in lore can posses many companions to aid them in whatever they do I always wondered why they've never been given the opportunity to have a permanent pet to fight along side them. Now I know that Druids weren't designed to have the potential to be a pet class but I ask why not have it now? I think it can add some great to the class if done right, especially to whoever loves the Druid class and loves pet classes as well.

Either way, it'll probably never happen but I can always dream.

If they wanted to give us pets, they would simply make FoN be that talent.

It's not a bad idea, giving us a permanent pet. It would help our dps out during high movement. Especially at the start of an expansion when we're low on crit levels.


I like the idea of soul of the forest as it is now, it's just too unreliable in implementation. What I specifically like about it; you're able to keep two boosted dots up as long as it is proc'ing. Maybe that is what should be the focus of the talent, it reliably allows us to keep boosted sunfire and moonfire up.

An alternative thing it could do is, tie into nature's grace. Maybe it could extend the duration of nature's grace any time we have a dot tick crit, or a direct spell crit. Would help out with AOE too. Crits from hurricane could extend nature's grace. Scaling might be poor though as our rotation speeds up with gear.

[Deleted]

Soul of the Forest - You summon a Soul of the Forest (different pet for different spec). This is a permanent pet with various abilities depending on your talent specialization.

Read it all, honestly its an okay idea but they stuff you suggested would make it op as shit.



Personally and i know it wont happen because its too much effort from blizz, i would like each talent in that tier to completely change how we play, rotation maybe, or even the best stats to go for, so that if your not a fan of crit machine gun then you can play haste super dots, or play something else.

But again its too much effort, i just am not a huge fan of forced direction of play.

[Aboubacar]

I don't want to micro a pet tbh and too many pet classes already. Shamans are nearly becoming a pet spec now with all their elementals lol. Pets really don't add gameplay tbh it's just free damage. Look at what hunter pets have become: they take no damage in raids, everything is autocast, very few people actually ever use move pet function or bind the pet spells. Not very exciting.

The temporary guardians (treants) are enough for me, they definitely need to be improved so they benefit more from your gear.

[huth]

Mostly they just need to scale with mastery since the rest of the tier does. They'll scale with everything else due to the WoD changes anyway.

[Miraclous]

Mostly they just need to scale with mastery since the rest of the tier does. They'll scale with everything else due to the WoD changes anyway.

I don't entirely agree. But just because as long as you have talents like FoN not benefiting from a secondary stat like mastery, that means you can also have cooldown-talents benefiting from Readiness. The argument that you can't give readiness to talents because not all options are benefiting from it would be invalid, since other talents, like FoN don't benefit from all secondary stats either.

[Vanos27]

Read it all, honestly its an okay idea but they stuff you suggested would make it op as shit.



Personally and i know it wont happen because its too much effort from blizz, i would like each talent in that tier to completely change how we play, rotation maybe, or even the best stats to go for, so that if your not a fan of crit machine gun then you can play haste super dots, or play something else.

But again its too much effort, i just am not a huge fan of forced direction of play.

That's another thing I was thinking of. Since we're getting to the max level (don't think we'll be going past 100) and Blizzard doesn't want to add any new spells I think it's time to create talents like the ones you suggested. It would definitely increase the longevity of specs if you could change the way they play.

During MoP I've said many times I'd like to try playing my Balance Druid with prioritizing Ctit and Mastery over Haste or what not. Choices are always good in my opinion.

[huth]

That's another thing I was thinking of. Since we're getting to the max level (don't think we'll be going past 100) and Blizzard doesn't want to add any new spells I think it's time to create talents like the ones you suggested. It would definitely increase the longevity of specs if you could change the way they play.

During MoP I've said many times I'd like to try playing my Balance Druid with prioritizing Ctit and Mastery over Haste or what not. Choices are always good in my opinion.

There is no indication that we will stop at 100. Quite the opposite, the most likely scenarios for 7.0 are 105 and 110(probably 110).

That aside, Balance Druids currently do prioritise Crit and Mastery over Haste if they got any halfway serious gear, and the stated goal for WoD is to minimise the difference between the various secondaries(however they intend to do that for Readiness), which would put this entirely into the realm of your personal preference(and gear availability) rather than tying it to talents.