1. #961
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    I was wondering about something, now this might just be too much math balance which is not the time for yet. But it could be because of the mechanics and so does matter:

    Rune of Power will be the best talent choice for Fire spec because of the intricacies of Combustion.
    • Combustion scales on ignite> ignite doesn't scale on mirror image > Mirror image is worse for Fire than for Arcane and Frost > If Mirror image is balanced for Arcane and Frost it’s not for Fire.
    • Combustion is all about timing, but there is a limit at how long you should wait for a good ignite before the waiting becomes a dps loss > Ice floes makes the timing even more rng so resulting in Rune of Power is better for a more reliable good Combustion.

    The Ice Floes vs Rune of Power with Combustion could perhaps be simcrafted and theorized.

  2. #962
    Herald of the Titans Northem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Wait is the Glyph of Slow being removed in WoD? The one where Arcane Blast also applies the affect of Slow?
    Are you insinuating that Arcane mages should be forced to use a certain glyph mandatorily so that thay can have what other classes/specs already have baseline? I sincerely hope not.

    In short:

    In MoP [Slow] is an almost useless spell, that thanks to the glyph you comment, it becomes a passive effect, an almost useless passive effect

    In WoD the [Slow] spell will be garbage, not even that glyph you comment will be able to remedy it ...

  3. #963
    If the numbers will stay like they are now, Incanter's Flow would probably be superior to RoP.
    It stacks like 5% 10% 15% 20% 25% 25% 20% 15% 10% 5%. On avarage it's a 15% damage increase, but due to the fact that we spend 60% of our time at 15% increase or more it's likely gonna win. In a worst case scenario you get only 10% damage increase, in the best case you get 20%. Timingwise it should not be that hard to place your 6 seconds ignite window in a high damage phase of your IF.
    Last edited by Sereas; 2014-04-18 at 04:28 PM.

  4. #964
    Been spending some time mulling and posting, over the 90 talent tier. What I can not understand is why Blizzard insists on keeping a maintenance buff when they are either removing them from other classes (inquisition for Ret Paladins) or making them passive (Slice and Dice for rogues). Further if you look at the 90 tier itself, the other two talents achieve the desired ~15% buff without the maintenance aspect. Mirror Images via a cool down, Incanter's Flow via a unique passive.

    Why can't RoP instead be a combination of both passive and cool down? Further why not make it similar to the WoD Bomb talent, in that each spec has a different version of Rune?

    My thoughts on tweaking Rune;

    Runes of Frost - Mage is surrounded by a swirling vortex of Frost runes. Every Frost Bolt cast will absorb a rune which will trigger Brain Freeze effect. Can only happen X times. Y cool down.

    Runes of Fire - Mage is surrounded by a swirling vortex of Fire Runes. Every Fireball cast will absorb a rune which will cause the Fireball to crit. Can only happen X times. Y cool down.

    Runes of Nether - Mage is surrounded by a swirling vortex of Nether Runes. Every Arcane Blast cast will absorb a rune which will trigger Arcane Missles. Can only happen X times. Y cool down.

    Instead of a maintenance buff, RoP becomes a cool down that is passive and benefits each specs filler spell casts. That removes the maintenance aspect of the spell, which is in line with what Blizzard has been doing with maintenance spells for WoD.

  5. #965
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Wait is the Glyph of Slow being removed in WoD? The one where Arcane Blast also applies the affect of Slow?
    The Glyph of Slow is not being removed. Still, if arcane needs glyphs and talents just to barely work (or, from another point of view, if it needs glyphs and talents to be just a bit better but still worse than frost or other specs in general), then why are not these glyphs and talents baseline, if they are so necessary? Plus, we are not considering that using specific glyphs and talents means sacrifice other glyphs and talents. For example, the most used glyphs right now are: polymorph, armors, deep freeze. If an arcane mage want to take glyph of slow, he has to sacrifice one of these powerful glyphs.

  6. #966
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seneca View Post
    For example, the most used glyphs right now are: polymorph, armors, deep freeze. If an arcane mage want to take glyph of slow, he has to sacrifice one of these powerful glyphs.
    Well Arcane lost Deep Freeze, so...

    We don't know what it's going to look like without a glyph list. Armours is likely gone as well, given the point was to preserve swapping in PVP.

    Also of interest, Ice Nova is an AOE DF, not a root, assuming WoWhead has the flags set properly so far. 2 seconds on the GCD is kinda meh, though. You'll only get a Lance into it at best.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2014-04-18 at 10:35 PM.

  7. #967
    The patch notes are here and not much was changed for us;

    Frost Bomb has been redesigned. It now lasts 12 seconds, has no cooldown, and explodes every time the target is critically hit by the Mage's Ice Lance while frozen. The damage per explosion has been reduced by 75% to compensate.
    Glyph of Mirror Image has been removed and its effects have been incorporated into Mirror Image.
    Glyph of Frostfire Bolt is now available only to Fire Mages.
    Very exciting.
    There was some clarification on how DoT snapshotting works though.

  8. #968
    Celestalon also confirmed that multistrikes from the ice lance won't set off Frost Bomb, though obviously Frost Bomb can still multistrike.

  9. #969
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    Well Arcane lost Deep Freeze, so...

    We don't know what it's going to look like without a glyph list. Armours is likely gone as well, given the point was to preserve swapping in PVP.

    Also of interest, Ice Nova is an AOE DF, not a root, assuming WoWhead has the flags set properly so far. 2 seconds on the GCD is kinda meh, though. You'll only get a Lance into it at best.
    I know we will have different glyphs, the point was that taking glyph of slow means sacrifice your third glyph slot, no matter what. The only scenario where glyph of slow doesn't imply a real loss, is if the glyphs are so bad for an arcane mage that losing your third glyph slot doesn't matter, and this scenario is even worse than the one we are talking about :P.

    About Ice Nova, I checked it on wowhead, it says 1.5sec gcd, but as you say, the wowhead's spell details says "stun effect", but I guess (hope) it's a bug because the tooltip says "freezing".

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    The patch notes are here and not much was changed for us;

    Very exciting.
    There was some clarification on how DoT snapshotting works though.
    Yeah we basically knew everything but the change of glyph of mirror images. I expected the patch notes to be way bigger to be honest.
    Last edited by Seneca; 2014-04-19 at 12:33 AM.

  10. #970
    Quote Originally Posted by Seneca View Post
    Yeah we basically knew everything but the change of glyph of mirror images. I expected the patch notes to be way bigger to be honest.
    I want to remind you that no additional abilities are planned to be added to Mages https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...47612347637760
    If nothing happens during alpha and beta that will Make developers change design *cough* level 90 talents *cough* we probably will be shipped to live in current state.
    Last edited by Orrin; 2014-04-19 at 03:13 AM.

  11. #971
    Uh... he said no new abilities not no further changes...

  12. #972
    Looked at Bomb talents once again. Frost Bomb still has cast time, was there something about it twitter? Isn't cast time too harsh of a penalty for a spell that might not have a chance to deal damage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Uh... he said no new abilities not no further changes...
    I prefer to lessen my expectations from Mage design. I was hopeful about MoP and it's Mage development direction got me to unsubscribing.
    Last edited by Orrin; 2014-04-19 at 03:28 AM.

  13. #973
    Considering its duration and the fact that you can force and pool ice lance procs, there's realistically never going to be a point that it doesn't tick at least once

    Like if you spec into Frost Bomb why would you not just be sitting on one stack at all times to make sure you didn't waste it, it would be 100% your own fault if it did no damage at all
    (also the cast time is literally as long as the global cooldown, the only "harsh" part is that you can't cast it while moving)
    Last edited by Imnick; 2014-04-19 at 03:48 AM.

  14. #974
    Field Marshal Nitefyr's Avatar
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    Holy crap, we have a Raid CD?! About damn time.

  15. #975
    Old God Swizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitefyr View Post
    Holy crap, we have a Raid CD?! About damn time.
    A unique raid CD that is actually a little bit stronger than some other, no less.
    BfA Beta Time

  16. #976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    We don't know what it's going to look like without a glyph list. Armours is likely gone as well, given the point was to preserve swapping in PVP.
    I don't see why glyph of armors would be gone? Our armors might be spec bound and passive now, but the glyph could still provide us with 10% additional defensive bonus!

  17. #977
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    Quote Originally Posted by lootinc View Post
    I don't see why glyph of armors would be gone? Our armors might be spec bound and passive now, but the glyph could still provide us with 10% additional defensive bonus!
    Probably because the bonus effect would be baked in, and if a glyph just flat out made something more powerful it'd become mandatory, and I don't think many players like that.
    BfA Beta Time

  18. #978
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Swizzlington View Post
    Probably because the bonus effect would be baked in, and if a glyph just flat out made something more powerful it'd become mandatory, and I don't think many players like that.
    Well certain glyphs are mandatory already, not to mention this one is only good in certain situations: Molten armor's 10% less physical dmg taken is useless vs casters in pvp, so it's not that mandatory at all imo

  19. #979
    Herald of the Titans Northem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orrin View Post
    I want to remind you that no additional abilities are planned to be added to Mages https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...47612347637760
    If nothing happens during alpha and beta that will Make developers change design *cough* level 90 talents *cough* we probably will be shipped to live in current state.
    So the arcane mages are doomed ... for another entire expansion ... Perfect!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Swizzlington View Post
    A unique raid CD that is actually a little bit stronger than some other, no less.
    Yes, that's wonderful, but you need to comment a couple of less positive points:

    • That [Amplify Magic] is an useless spell for ourselves (which does not happen with the other raid utility skills).

    • That [Amplify Magic] requires that the group has other classes with a certain specific role (healing) to be of any use (which does not happen with the other raid utility skills).

    • That mages are not a healer class, so mages increasing the healing of the whole raid is totally illogical and sounds ridiculous ...

  20. #980
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by lootinc View Post
    Well certain glyphs are mandatory already, not to mention this one is only good in certain situations: Molten armor's 10% less physical dmg taken is useless vs casters in pvp, so it's not that mandatory at all imo
    True, but 10% physical damage reduction against melee and thok for example is a completely different story and the glyph should therefore stay, or even better; become a "perk".

    I was wondering if anyone know what's going to happen with the glyph of combustion since it's pretty much a mandatory glyph for every single encounter in MoP, and is a vital part of our damage, even more so on cleave fights. It really worries me that we are getting perks reducing the CD and extending the duration of combust though, since that pretty much translates to a spell that hits like a wet noodle (even worse than it is on live), and if that makes it to live theres no real difference between a good/decent fire mage and someone thats just spamming random stuff since the amount of combustions you get per fight will compensate for alot of shitty combusts. It'll also remove the fun part of being a fire mage which to me is stacking up my ignite really high with trinkets procs and smashing the target with crazy amount of fire damage :'(.

    Oh and the level 90 talents? Meteor is the only one I approve of, the others seem shitty. (FIX IT BLIZZ)!
    Last edited by mmoc3ebca6a2a1; 2014-04-19 at 05:15 PM.

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