[Mage-WoD] Mage Beta Discussion

[Orrin]

"Blizzard is now instant, removes the slow effect" is not a playstyle choice glyph though, it's a direct damage increase.
He is proposing a glyph that changes how a spell is targetted, not one which clearly and obviously makes your DPS go up. I don't want Blizzard to become instant like Rain of Fire, it's one of the only channeled ground target AOE spells left (if not the only one?).

The fact that Blizzard is a channel, and the fact that Meteor is ground targeted, are completely separate issues with separate concerns and explanations.

Rain of Fire is channeled for Affliction, Hurricane is channeled for Druids. However only RoF got treatment of "you spend mana only for ticks you cast". Blizzard and Hurricane are still "you pay full cost up front".

Also let me remind yuo the Fire is still only spec that has no AoE while leveling: Flamestrike becomes spammable only when you get perk, other option is level 75 talents. I wonder what will happen in a month (or weeks) before WoD with competitive raiding in SoO for Fire.

[Imnick]

The changes to Flamestrike should definitely apply earlier in levelling, I'm not sure why you are choosing now to remind me though because it has nothing to do with what we were talking about.

I'd forgotten about Hurricane so there's still that. Affliction does not get Rain of Fire, Seed of Corruption replaces it in Warlords of Draenor (because there was no point where you'd ever want to cast it as Affliction).
And no DPS specs except Arcane and (to a tiny extent) Destruction give any kind of a shit about mana, and Arcane doesn't get Blizzard, so that's hardly very important either.

[Terminal Lance]

For Arcane, I just noticed now that NTempest is hitting the main target twice: Once when it ticks, then the AoE splash. I wonder if that's intended?
Well, I ain't complainin'. NT still one of the coolest-looking spells imo!

[Agnhar]

For Arcane, I just noticed now that NTempest is hitting the main target twice: Once when it ticks, then the AoE splash. I wonder if that's intended?
Well, I ain't complainin'. NT still one of the coolest-looking spells imo!

I recall reading a tweet from Celestalon that said it should hit the primary target with the aoe effect to.

[Puuhis]

Got myself to try arcane yesterday during the first two bosses and I didn't like it that much. Prismatic crystal is pretty wonky with barrage. You'd theoretically want to time the barrage during the last second of crystal, but if you happen to cast it just a bit too late...

Doing useful AoE on beastlord with arcane explosion was completely impossible because mages are considered ranged and get targeted by ranged abilities. In this case the melee got impaled by a spear and it was the last pull I bothered even trying. Since RoP is much better than IF unless you have to move constantly, it was a pain to use(what a surprise!). Arcane explosion + rune of power is just pure cancer.

However, I was able to compete with the other mages in my guilds that played frost and sometimes even beat them. Arcane orb+barrage combos were really crucial to execute perfectly or I was fucked. I ran with nether tempest for most of the night and having to use it at 4 arcane charges was very painful. Additionally, the cooldown on arcane barrage was sometimes pretty irritating both because it doesn't scale with haste, meaning that you'd have to cast different amount of spells between casts depending on haste. Supernova seemed to be the best option on single target combined with prismatic crystal. It's also worth noting that Supernova costs no mana and gives arcane missiles.

[Polarthief]

I recall reading a tweet from Celestalon that said it should hit the primary target with the aoe effect to.

It is in fact intended. The tooltip also confirms this. If anything, the one that really needs a buff to the primary target is UM. Should be double damage filler when it procs to the primary target, lol

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It's also worth noting that Supernova costs no mana and gives arcane missiles.

I'd like to point out that, while I'm not sure if it's from ticks or application (I'll go test this right now), NT does in fact give AM procs, too, despite what we were told about it not doing that.

Edit: Confirmed, AM procs from NT casts (not ticks). Supernova may not cost any mana, but has a 25s recharge. NT has no cooldown, so you can still fish for procs if you choose to.

[Deleted]

....I just imagine the crystal with 3AM charges + 2 Novas + 2extra AMs + AB....
This will make any other lvl100 make uncompetitive.... (except for 1 out of 20 fights with special circumstances....)

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Off hand comment but I think what would be a nice visual for Mages is if you use a staff you hold it in your hand while casting spells. Like in Rift. I think that'd be nice. I might play my Mage more often. He's my second favorite even though I play Paladin mostly(Who uses Arcane magic to >.>).


Don't mind me and hai Polarthief I seee u on Twitterz.

[Imnick]

Weapon-based cast animations would be neat but I don't think it's a feature which is ever that likely to arrive.

[Polarthief]

....I just imagine the crystal with 3AM charges + 2 Novas + 2extra AMs + AB....
This will make any other lvl100 make uncompetitive.... (except for 1 out of 20 fights with special circumstances....)

Eh... AO is a LOT stronger than people make it out to be. Quadruple the damage and charges it gives to compare it to 4x PC (since you can cast it 4 times every 1 time you can cast PC), and it's actually quite good and doesn't have the annoying stuff PC has (it's very irritating to even use, for me at least, and I know I'm not alone in that). Meanwhile, AO can be used in almost any situation and unlike the other two right L100 talents (CS and Meteor), it doesn't split damage at all. Because the spell also isn't considered AoE (hitting unlimited targets simultaneously), it has no damage cap even if you hit a bazillion mobs. It will always do the same damage to target X as it does to target XYZ (assuming you didn't get/lose a proc/alike between the two hits).

Idk, I just think a lot of people are underwhelming AO when it's actually a really fun and awesome talent to use. PC may be great, but it splits damage and isn't fun unless you get some wicked combos. Plus, it just feels clunky and is very irritating.

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Weapon-based cast animations would be neat but I don't think it's a feature which is ever that likely to arrive.

At least we can get those cool tome thingies while all other classes get poisons and other cool shit hanging at their side >_>;

... Y'know, assuming class aesthetic customization will still be a thing.

[Arkwin]

Welp, im looking into seeing what yall are doing and such for rotations and stats and whatnot.

[Polarthief]

Welp, im looking into seeing what yall are doing and such for rotations and stats and whatnot.

For the most part, the specs still keep the same core rotations. The thing that really changed is the talents which add extra buttons to push. Prismatic Crystal is for CD stacking and going nuts, doing some weird combos with it, right L100 talent is pretty much used on CD (except Meteor, which you want to time just right on a single target for an insanely high Combustion), NT/LB is pretty much the same: keep it up all times (except NT has to be cast at 4 charges, which is really stupid), and Frost Bomb is completely different; only keep it up when you have FoF stacks. Right L75 talent is pretty much to be used on cooldown; same a charge for a bit if you know you'll need the burst or AoE is coming soon. Then you have the L90 talents. Always stay in Rune, use MI on cooldown unless you need to save for burst, and you'll want to game IF with your procs/right L75 and L100 talents as much as you can.

I will say this though, Frost feels very clunky with all the additional buttons. There's simply too many.

[Deleted]

Fast question about Prismatic crystal - does Blizzard/Comet storm, Flame strike/Meter, Arcane explosion/Arcane orb double dip on in?

Example - Casting PC in the middle of the pack of adds and then rain them with Blizzard. Will Blizzard do the same damage on the adds and + 1.3 of it from the PC. Or all damage done will go in the PC and go out enhanced by 30%?
Math explanation - Blizzard does 10k over 10 seconds(1k per tick)->cast PC in the melle->cast Blizzard on top of it->everything in the area takes (1k from the initial Blizzard tick + 1,3k from the PC mechanic) = total 2,3k per tick
OR
Nothing in the area will be hit by Blizzard except the PC and it will enhance Blizzard by 30% and it "radiate" 1,3k ticks for the duration of Blizzard?

Or simple rephrased - if i use Blizzard on top of PC will i get 23k damage out of it or just 13k?

[Imnick]

Prismatic Crystal and Meteor/Comet Storm/Arcane Orb are on the same talent tier and cannot be taken simultaneously.

[Polarthief]

Fast question about Prismatic crystal - does Blizzard/Comet storm, Flame strike/Meter, Arcane explosion/Arcane orb double dip on in?

Meteor, Comet Storm, and Arcane Orb are all on the same tier of talents as Prismatic Crystal is, so you can't really test that no matter how much you wanted to. As far as the damage done, assuming you don't hit the damage cap (which IIRC [feel free to tell me otherwise!] is once you start AoEing >10 targets), you should get essentially 230% damage on a single target per hit of Blizz/FS/AE/alike spell. Keep in mind that PC also splits damage, so if PC pulses are hitting two targets, they both take 65% damage from PC instead of 130% damage to one target.

So, let's assume Blizzard does 10k over its full duration, you drop PC just before you start Blizzard, and you are NOT hitting the Damage Cap (10 or less targets). The total damage should be 10k + (13k/N) to each target over the entire duration, where N is the number of targets hit (excluding Prismatic Crystal).

To answer your original question though, I don't understand what you mean by "double dip". If you mean "does every target take 130% additional damage", then no because PC splits damage evenly. However, some other spells do in fact double dip. Frost Bomb, Nether Tempest, and the right L75 talent all deal 2x damage on the target they're cast on, meaning that non-Crystal targets will take the normal secondary damage (100%) + 260%/N from the Crystal (again, where N is the number of targets, excluding PC).



Also, I'd like to add that using Blizzard on a Prismatic Crystal does trigger Improved Blizzard's effect of reducing Frozen Orb's cooldown by 0.5s, though it shouldn't really matter (nor should the math above) because you shouldn't really be using PC for spammable AoE spells.

[Deleted]

Well i know that raidwise as a mage who know what is doing i will never ever use Prismatic Crystal just like that.
My question was rather for open world AoE zerging fest large group of adds with relatively low health pools. I know the tooltip says that it split damage. Correct me if im wrong, but i thought that the crystal was absorbing all the damage done by the mage within 8 yards and then ... urgh ... how was the wording ... radiate?!? it out 30% stronger or whatever.
So my logic was that if there are 5 targets within Blizzard and PC range then blizzard will deal 1k dmg per target per tick and PC will absorb 5x1k=5k dmg per tick and radiate it 30% stronger 5x1.3=6.5k split evenly or 6.5/5=1.3k per target or total of 1k+1.3k=2.3k per Blizzard tick while PC is active.
Now as i read what you guys explained its 1k per blizzard tick per target and PC also takes 1k per blizzard tick (aka its also considered as target) and the total damage done on the set of 5 adds within the range of Blizzard and PC will be (1 000+(1 000x1.3)/5)=1 260 total damage per add, right?
If this is right then this is double "shitting"

[Polarthief]

Just for fun, if Icy Floes is intended to allow us to do non-Magey stuff with it, I'd like to find everything we can do with it without just chalking it up to "everything". So, here's a list of stuff I've found you can do, and none of it even eats your active charge!

- Blizzard, Teleport, and Portals (while all Mage stuff, this is all new to IF 2.0)
- Changing to your other specialization (this one actually does eat your charge because all buffs are lost upon changing specs)
- Mounting (both flight and ground)
- Using a Hearthstone (both normal and Garrison/Glowing)
- Professions (I tested making a Linen Bandage to great success on the move! Will need to be tested with Enchanting due to its "targeting an equipment piece/enchanting vellum" mechanic) [This also makes me wonder why we can't craft stuff on a mount or on a taxi mount...]
- Gathering (including Mining, Skinning, and Herbalism, in addition to quest gathering and whatnot, though you have to be stood still to actually loot the item(s) and you need to be within a decent range for it to count as well. It's really funny to be walking around a node or dead animal as you mine, pick, or skin it though!)
- Lightning a campfire
- Fishing (Yes, you can even walk around while your bobber is out with this!)
- Bandages (You cannot start using a bandage while moving unfortunately, but if you stop for a second, start wrapping, and then start moving with an IF charge up, you can continue the cast while moving) [Tested and confirmed to work when bandaging yourself and other players]

Oh, and even with our immense Intellect levels, even with the changes to Icy Floes, we still haven't learned how to eat and/or drink while moving.

Considering making a new thread on this just for people to share a laugh and post pictures/videos (or gifs) of some hilariously awesome things you can do with IF 2.0 (y'know, assuming it stays like this!)

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Correct me if im wrong, but i thought that the crystal was absorbing all the damage done by the mage within 8 yards and then ... urgh ... how was the wording ... radiate?!? it out 30% stronger or whatever.

You've got the basic part of it right. It does radiate/pulse/whatever-term-or-verb-you-want-to-use out damage, but only damage that was done to it. Both AoE and direct/targeted spells work, but it doesn't absorb all damage in the area, only stuff that hits it. You attack it just like you would any other normal target.

[Imnick]

I'm hoping this is all intended, and the "not consuming the charge" is the only bug.
We're the masters of magic, we should clearly be able to do all of this

[Polarthief]

I'm hoping this is all intended, and the "not consuming the charge" is the only bug.
We're the masters of magic, we should clearly be able to do all of this

Hunters and Shamans can do the same, though not nearly as often But yes, I REALLY do hope that the charge consumption is the only thing not working as intended. I'd report this, but... well, I'm just gonna be an asshole and not out of fear >_>


PS: That one spot you can blink behind that I've referenced multiple times on the forum is still unfixed and in a VERY common place :3

[Deleted]

I would really, really like to have one question answered by you kind and generous Mages who have beta: What is the new mana regen like, considering the mana talents were removed and evocation and mana gems aren't available to non-Arcane Mages?

I assume mana regen is insanely better, but how does it interact with Spellsteal? I play a lot of PvP in addition to raiding, and I'm curious if we will be able to Spellsteal more often, or even spam it in WoD, because of the new and improved mana regen? Considering our lack of self-heals it's one of the things that can keep us alive in many situations. The glyph even gives Spellsteal a 4% heal, which is quite strong for a 1.5sec GCD, if spammable at least to an extent. Stealing shields and hots is great.

Thank you.