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  1. #41
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Or Fire supposedly. Living Bomb will be multi-dottable, but probably with a target limit.
    According to the notes it has lost its target limit and can be spread with Inferno Blast again, which is good.
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    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Except you still have to stand in it and it doesn't have a cooldown. It's a maintenance buff that still ball-and-chains you to it.
    Current RoP (as arcane) - you lose up to half your normal DPS without RoP (due to no mana regen) - you need to cast it to MAINTAIN your baseline damage.
    New RoP (as arcane) - you lose NOTHING off your normal DPS without RoP - you do NOT need it to MAINTAIN your baseline damage.

    Simple fact - new RoP is no longer a maintenance buff, just a DPS buff.

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Eh, having read through, my initial thoughts are as follows (bearing in mind I've got a huge headache right now and am pretty tired and annoyed in general):

    - Evanesce looks decent, could be very interesting as a replacement for Block if we can cheese mechanics in a similar way.
    - Sad to see TS go as the make-way for AT, but new AT I guess gives people what they want. Disagreed with this from the beginning so was always going to be a little sour.
    - CS is a joke for burst for PoM and Arcane. Will be used as DPS CD assuming survivability isn't a major issue. Bad change considering what they did with Alter Time. Unconvinced for Fire.
    - Bomb changes are decent.
    - Unstable Magic looks interesting, will need further numbers and scalings to have a proper opinion
    - Final Level 75 talent (Supernova/Blastwave/Ice Nova) welcome change for varied AoE patterns.
    - MI change is "OK"; SP buff is nice but ultimately just another button to hit.
    - RoP change is beyond stupid. Duration of the Ring was never the issue and by changing it the way they have (outside of untying it from Mana regen) it pretty much shows how little they seem to understand the underlying issues with it. Was much happier with the player-thought concept of a 1m CD lasting 10s or so with similar effects to current RoP. This is just..meh.
    - Incanter's Flows is meh, boring.

    - Level 100 talents; boring. Crystal is cool in concept but not practical in raiding situations or hell, even PvP. Lack of understanding of this shows lack of foresight by Blizzard. Overpowered selection (Kindling etc as well) is beyond boring and lacks so much creativity. Extended burst periods doesn't reward good or bad play, plays too much into the hands of RNG with procs and is generally poor design. Final set (Orbs) is OK if they can fix the pathing issues that Orbs have had in the past and in MoP with Frozen Orb.

    - Provided other specs lose mobility am generally OK with the lack of Mobility of Arcane and reduced mobility of Frost, but giving Fire extra mobility when it's already an incredibly mobile spec is pretty dumb IMO.

    The addressing of underlying scaling issues on Frost's side is nice; the fact Arcane apparently had scaling "issues" is puzzling somewhat and the changes are (IMO) silly, but oh well. Lack of addressing of Fire's inherent scaling issues is dumb.


    TL;DR. Generally, outside of certain changes here and there, pretty disappointed with the changes. They haven't really been listening to the Mage community (so it would seem) outside of replacing Invocation and removing multi-dotting and giving us an alternative to bombs. Kinda frustrating, but earliest set of patch notes I guess. Hopefully will see further changes because if they stay like this, I might well not be playing Mage come WoD.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Arcane's burst was nonexistent thanks to the level 90 talents; these changes may see the burn phase reintroduced along with emphasizing its abilities as a nuke spec. If you want to multidot, go play a priest or warlock.
    All right, blizz agrees with you there. I'll leave arcane for ppl who enjoyed arcane in its later wotlk-whole cata version: a stupid spam of ab netting huge dps for no sensible reason.

    At least Fire is getting the old (wotlk) version of Living Bomb, with emphasis on the explosion. Plus Flamestrike and (talent) Blastwave. Let's see it how it rolls.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Well - they removed the maintenance aspect of RoP, that's the key point of the new change.
    How can you say that??? They changed NOTHING except tripling the duration! (and the mana part, but that was an arcane-only aspect anyways). It's still "stand in me to do damage equal to everyone else"! That's called MAINTENANCE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    This will make Rune of Power a 100% fun spell to use defensively or for movement. Imagine the Garrosh fight, in those 15 seconds you can go kill one of the Engineers and then magically poof continue dps on Garrosh. Or you can use it as a defensive cooldown to restore your health on some fights. It will still remain a PvP choice, more than a PvE choice, but it's definitely going to be used in more fun ways than just part of a macro.
    ... What?

    Am I reading a different Rune of Power than everyone else? The way I'm reading it is:

    Rune of Power
    Place a rune on the ground. Standing in it increases your damage by X%. Lasts 3m


    Don't quite get how this makes it any more fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    According to the notes it has lost its target limit and can be spread with Inferno Blast again, which is good.
    Infinitely? I know IB only puts it on two targets...

    TBH I'm curious about that new Nether Tempest. One target and it ticks on EVERYONE for 100%? Sounds nice. Sucks it's Arcane only now that it's good >_>;
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  6. #46
    Herald of the Titans Shangalar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magemaer View Post
    Are you happy with arcane no longer having a multi-dot, shangalar? I'm not happy at all with that. Playing against multiple target was really fun factoring charges, dots and abarr.
    After this it will be just like most classes. Use x them y, them spam x. Lame.
    I am happy without multidotting. It was fun, it gave us Missiles procs, but it was also a hassle. Now we'll have amazing AoE talents at level 75, coupled with some fun shiny graphics even for single target. We also have the two AoE level 100 talents that will imho also be totally fun to see and sometimes fun to use. I really have no objections to these notes.

    Sorry Polar hahaha, that post was about Alter Time
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  7. #47
    Warchief taishar68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post


    I'm sorry, but you have to be pretty blind to assume Blizzard can actually maintain 3 damage increasing talents without having one be ahead of the others. Did you not learn anything from this entire expansion and the L90 talents?
    The problem is keeping a stupid "damage-increasing" tier in the first place (when really it's a way to keep us doing just as much damage as everyone else)



    I was curious about that myself. Cool that Fireball gets a very slow-stacking (old) Combustion effect, but that doesn't fix the issue at hand.

    Also, wtf is up with "Brain Freeze not making FFB instant, and stacking to two"? They didn't say what BF does then... If I'm to assume, it decreases the cast time of FFB by 50%.
    I assume that one may math out higher to a degree, but I think, comparing Invocation to RoP, for example, we get the same buff but Invo is easier to maintain, especially on heavy movement fights (only looking at the DPS portion), so, in theory, if MI provides, during their uptime, at least a viable option to RoP, most people will take MI, especially if macroing it behind AP+trinket increases burst.

    I thought they meant the BF proc would make FFB a crit with no mana cost, but with a cast time.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Current RoP (as arcane) - you lose up to half your normal DPS without RoP (due to no mana regen) - you need to cast it to MAINTAIN your baseline damage.
    New RoP (as arcane) - you lose NOTHING off your normal DPS without RoP - you do NOT need it to MAINTAIN your baseline damage.

    Simple fact - new RoP is no longer a maintenance buff, just a DPS buff.
    I'd like a source for this information, because you're now ASSUMING what it does.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Rune of Power no longer replaces Evocation, no longer increases mana regeneration, and now lasts 3 minutes (up from 1 minute).
    Here's what they posted. Please tell me where it gives us more damage than we can manage. Please tell me where it says you don't have to constantly stand in it.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  9. #49
    To optimizie your damage, you have to maximize your RoP uptime and the annoying fact remains for all specs - you have to stand in this f**** rune the whole time.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by taishar68 View Post
    I assume that one may math out higher to a degree, but I think, comparing Invocation to RoP, for example, we get the same buff but Invo is easier to maintain, especially on heavy movement fights (only looking at the DPS portion), so, in theory, if MI provides, during their uptime, at least a viable option to RoP, most people will take MI, especially if macroing it behind AP+trinket increases burst.

    I thought they meant the BF proc would make FFB a crit with no mana cost, but with a cast time.
    Then I feel like the entire tier is pointless. They should just buff our baseline damage or give us something fun to use. Since the new IW is purely passive, if it's weaker than the other two, YET AGAIN, they make a worthless talent that makes literally no sense to pick up. Why would they make the same mistake twice?

    I'm honestly not sure. They said nothing about what BF actually does, just how it procs now.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Magemaer View Post
    It was one of the most awesome and fun aspects of playing a mage. I don't see why remove it. It's a huge disappointment.
    Pretty much that. Align it correctly with your trinkets/procs/cds was really fun, especially while on fire spec and required some kind of dedication/practice but the "reward" was also huge in the end..

    Anyways, besides AT, Fireball change is a joke if they believe it should bring Fire in line with early game gear..

    The 90 row talent at least looks decent on a first note.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    How can you say that??? They changed NOTHING except tripling the duration! (and the mana part, but that was an arcane-only aspect anyways). It's still "stand in me to do damage equal to everyone else"! That's called MAINTENANCE.
    Easy - because as Arcane - I WAS FORCED to use RoP because it was a maintenance buff, they have removed the maintenance aspect COMPLETELY.

    If you think new RoP is a maintenance buff, you probably think Water Elemental is one too ... lol

  13. #53
    The mage ability pruning seem to be pruning for pruning's sake. Does fire/arcane really need to lose deep freeze? I realize deep freeze was originally a frost-only spell to begin with, but what, is "tradition" really a good enough reason to make it spec only again?

    With the removal of Temporal Shield, I'm way more pissed that its gone than that they changed AT and replaced it with it. Replace flameglow with AT D:

    Pretty meh changes overall. Pick the right talents and you can mash your way to victory. I'd say the only thing from the notes that I thought was cool was Evanesce.

    Rune of Power is no longer interesting in any way. With those changes you'd pick it for stand-still patchwerk fights or never pick it at all.

    Incanter's Flow is kinda interesting. Pretty much a Wush/BBOY in a talent.

    But with the changes to the level 90 talent, why even keep the mana bar for mages? Its literally there for aesthetics, for the "spirit of the class" I'm sure blizz would say. Just give Arcane mages an energy bar from 1 to 100, and remove mana for frost/fire.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Easy - because as Arcane - I WAS FORCED to use RoP because it was a maintenance buff, they have removed the maintenance aspect COMPLETELY.
    .................... What? Because of the mana??? You still have to place it constantly and stand in it to optimize damage. THAT. IS. A. MAINTENANCE. BUFF.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Sereas View Post
    To optimizie your damage, you have to maximize your RoP uptime and the annoying fact remains for all specs - you have to stand in this f**** rune the whole time.
    Yes - but now as Arcane, I can choose THREE ways to increase my damage, because there is no longer a maintenance aspect to the RoP which made it required.

  16. #56
    Herald of the Titans Shangalar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycobi View Post

    TL;DR. Generally, outside of certain changes here and there, pretty disappointed with the changes. They haven't really been listening to the Mage community (so it would seem) outside of replacing Invocation and removing multi-dotting and giving us an alternative to bombs. Kinda frustrating, but earliest set of patch notes I guess. Hopefully will see further changes because if they stay like this, I might well not be playing Mage come WoD.
    I'll quote again: "... outside of replacing Invocation and removing multi-dotting and giving us an alternative to bombs."

    Also, they removed the mana part from level 90 talenst. So, your opinion is that outside of the 3-4 most important problems, they totally haven't solved any of the other less important problems.

    If this is an early glimpse at the future, then they've already done a hell of a job if you ask me.
    My magic will tear you apart.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    .................... What? Because of the mana??? You still have to place it constantly and stand in it to optimize damage. THAT. IS. A. DAMAGE. BUFF.
    Fixed that for you...

  18. #58
    Looking at the entire notes it seems that all classes are getting dumbed down. It's not a mage-exclusivity.
    Rotations will be easier. Errors will be less punished.
    They're removing anything remotely complex.
    I wonder when they'll remove Combustion or make it trivial to use.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by genjur0 View Post
    The mage ability pruning seem to be pruning for pruning's sake. Does fire/arcane really need to lose deep freeze? I realize deep freeze was originally a frost-only spell to begin with, but what, is "tradition" really a good enough reason to make it spec only again?

    With the removal of Temporal Shield, I'm way more pissed that its gone than that they changed AT and replaced it with it. Replace flameglow with AT D:

    Pretty meh changes overall. Pick the right talents and you can mash your way to victory. I'd say the only thing from the notes that I thought was cool was Evanesce.

    Rune of Power is no longer interesting in any way. With those changes you'd pick it for stand-still patchwerk fights or never pick it at all.

    Incanter's Flow is kinda interesting. Pretty much a Wush/BBOY in a talent.

    But with the changes to the level 90 talent, why even keep the mana bar for mages? Its literally there for aesthetics, for the "spirit of the class" I'm sure blizz would say. Just give Arcane mages an energy bar from 1 to 100, and remove mana for frost/fire.
    Pretty much how I feel overall as well. TS being removed by a weaker AT is so hurtful. TS was the best, and now I also lose AT on top of it because IB will probably be my choice. Totally agree FG should gtfo for AT.

    RoP is stupid and dumb and stupid. Scrap it and be done with it.

    Mana is even more pointless for Fire/Frost. Shouldn't even exist at this point.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  20. #60
    Warchief taishar68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Then I feel like the entire tier is pointless. They should just buff our baseline damage or give us something fun to use. Since the new IW is purely passive, if it's weaker than the other two, YET AGAIN, they make a worthless talent that makes literally no sense to pick up. Why would they make the same mistake twice?

    I'm honestly not sure. They said nothing about what BF actually does, just how it procs now.
    I see it the same way actually-I can only assume Arc mages would have used Invocation over RoP if mana was not a concern, so I can't see them opting for a "pita" DPS booster here; it almost feels like the talents are geared to player skill (real or assumed)...and if that is the case, then the DPS gain from MI should be lower to give more skilled mages the opportunity to shine. So your initial assessment might be correct
    "Can't you see this is the last act of a desperate man?"
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