[Mage-WoD] Mage Beta Discussion

[Vynestra]

I see people pvp in pve gear all the time. Yeah, they die non-stop and do 0 dmg, that doesn't mean people don't do it though.

I never understood the whole "Pvp gear works in pve now! But pve gear doesn't work in pvp! YAY LOGIC!"

That was introduced in MoP...

[Imnick]

I never understood the whole "Pvp gear works in pve now! But pve gear doesn't work in pvp! YAY LOGIC!"
That was introduced in MoP...

PvP gear performs at sub-par levels in PvE whereas PvE items with powerful set bonuses or special procs have frequently been stronger in PvP than anything obtainable by doing PvP.

[Polarthief]

Nah, they just missed that patch note. It's still 60%.

May not be implemented, but it will be reduced. If anyone thinks it's gonna stay at 60% as an instant proc, they're pretty crazy

However, they do need to make it stronger than an IL or FB to make it actually worth casting.

[Milocow]

i dont get it
first they make FFB non-instant with 25% damage boost.
wasnt a huge dps boost compared to casting frostbolt
then they boosted it to 60% more damage which is well okay

now they make it instant with 60% more damage wtf?

[Kuni Zyrekai]

May not be implemented, but it will be reduced. If anyone thinks it's gonna stay at 60% as an instant proc, they're pretty crazy

However, they do need to make it stronger than an IL or FB to make it actually worth casting.

No, the 25% was the initial patch that went with those notes. It was buffed after that, the notes have remained unchanged. We're arguing semantics at this point, but that was the timeline.

I doubt much will change with it until a preliminary numbers pass. I agree with you on how it should be stronger than Lance. 60% stronger might not be that far off the mark, I don't feel any stronger than the (guildy, not random) warlocks I've run with in 5 mans so far. Keeping its multiplier high means we'll most likely favour mastery as a second to MS, which has no cap. I see this as a smarter design than favouring haste second. We're going to have enough MS in the first tier that the glyph of IV will fall out of use fairly quickly. I have in fact already done so in the limited gear we're given with the low tier enchants. Having mastery as our second best stat keeps unglyphed IV useful, instead of running us into the issue we have on live with the meta. We'll pick up haste as it comes, but the spec feels okay even at 10% haste.

i dont get it

Testing is testing and untuned outside of orders of magnitude.

[Avikur]

so is haste not our best stat as Frost now? (or at least behind Multistrike?

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, same here, but only on the pvp lvl 100 char realm. On the "level realm", it's still increasing and decreasing as expected..

no, Incanters Flow is sticking at 5 stacks on both the lvl 100 realm and the lvl 90 realm for me, nice for the extra 25% damage, not so nice for testing how to manage stacks!

[Imnick]

It's really a bit early to start evaluating best stats, besides "the one with our specialisation bonus is going to be in front", but as we'll only have one spell with a cast time and no DoT effects, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't high.

[Polarthief]

It's really a bit early to start evaluating best stats, besides "the one with our specialisation bonus is going to be in front", but as we'll only have one spell with a cast time and no DoT effects, it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't high.

To be fair, higher haste = lower GCD = more ILs you can fit into your 2P = more Frostbolts you can fit into your 4P.

Cuz, y'know... I'm just sayin'... I'm just sayin'...





... WAIT, THAT WAS IT?! (wheee references)

[Halanad]

I feel like I have no reason to have Deep Freeze on my bar now. It has effectively become a single-target Frost Nova that you have to waste a FoF charge on. I feel like they went the wrong way in trying to tone this spell down. IMO, a better way to deal with the whole Deep Freeze PvP dilemma would have been to just make it no longer consider the target frozen and become a regular stun, but then I'm not a seasoned PvPer so I may be wrong.

[Imnick]

To be fair, higher haste = lower GCD = more ILs you can fit into your 2P = more Frostbolts you can fit into your 4P.

Cuz, y'know... I'm just sayin'... I'm just sayin'...

I certainly doubt it will be useless, and like I said... too early to say anything for certain just yet

[Pyromelter]

I made a quick video showing the constant bombardment of attacks with multistrike, procs, iccicles, pet, etc as Frost for the people not able to play on the beta to know what I meant

http://youtu.be/a1uBtA6aaLM

My first attempt at making a WoW video so bear with me!

Dude! Frost totally looking like a machine gun in that video. Nice.

[Polarthief]

I feel like I have no reason to have Deep Freeze on my bar now. It has effectively become a single-target Frost Nova that you have to waste a FoF charge on. I feel like they went the wrong way in trying to tone this spell down. IMO, a better way to deal with the whole Deep Freeze PvP dilemma would have been to just make it no longer consider the target frozen and become a regular stun, but then I'm not a seasoned PvPer so I may be wrong.

Then where's our burst potential? Unless we actually have a chance to spam Frostbolts on people, we're next to useless in PvP now, outside of CC.

I certainly doubt it will be useless, and like I said... too early to say anything for certain just yet

Oh I know. It'll be useful, but it's obvious that MS will be better, with Mastery maybe taking second. I'm curious where Crit will lie since our base Crit is much lower (Int no longer gives Crit) and Shatter is now 1.5x + 50% down from 2x + 50%.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude! Frost totally looking like a machine gun in that video. Nice.

Oh wow, Icicles look way better (sadly, they still look shitty when they fire). Really hope they somehow modify our proc spell effects now that we have 3FoF/2BF (just have a number next to them or increase opacity? lol).

Couldn't finish the video because as soon as the 'bass dropped', I had to turn it off. Didn't want my ears to bleed.

[Xorn]

So, I'd just like to point out that not only will the Frost 2 set have some fun interactions with the 4 set, but it will also have some fun times with some of our talents. Specifically these two:

Frost Bomb: Places a Frost Bomb on the target for 12 sec triggered by each Ice Lance while the target is frozen. The bomb releases a wave of freezing ice dealing (258.51% of Spell power) Frost damage to the target and (129.375% of Spell power) Frost damage to all other enemies within 10 yards. Limit 1 target.

Thermal Void: Casting Ice Lance extends your Icy Veins by 2 sec.

Cast bomb, frozen orb/IV, mash the fuck out of Ice Lance, orbs ends with 4 set stacks, and, oh look, we still have a shit ton of time on IV.

[Deleted]

Is there still a high cooldownreduction of Frozen Orb when using Blizzard on multiple enemys?
AoE could be funny then with Thermal Void. Unlimited Icy Veins in AoE Situations?

[Polarthief]

Is there still a high cooldownreduction of Frozen Orb when using Blizzard on multiple enemys?
AoE could be funny then with Thermal Void. Unlimited Icy Veins in AoE Situations?

OH FUCK! I forgot about Imp Blizzard! Yeah, this 2P/4P can't stay. It's broken.

[Frost1129]

Oh I know. It'll be useful, but it's obvious that MS will be better, with Mastery maybe taking second. I'm curious where Crit will lie since our base Crit is much lower (Int no longer gives Crit) and Shatter is now 1.5x + 50% down from 2x + 50%.

It's not obvious which stat will be second. At low ilvl, Frost stat weights are not what we see when we're at SoO ilvl.

[haxartus]

How is everyone not raging about the Evocation and Mage Armor and Arcane Explosion being limited to Arcane and Fire Blast to Fire ?

[Frost1129]

How is everyone not raging about the Evocation and Mage Armor and Arcane Explosion being limited to Arcane and Fire Blast to Fire ?

Because Frost/Fire don't care about Evo/mage armor, I use AE on maybe two fights as Fire/Frost, and Frost got IL buffed to deal with the loss of Fire Blast?

[Elegiac]

How is everyone not raging about the Evocation and Mage Armor and Arcane Explosion being limited to Arcane and Fire Blast to Fire ?

Neither Frost nor Fire give a crap about mana, so Evocation would only be useful for the heal. The Armor spells do better as passives, and Arcane doesn't need Fire Blast nor will Frost after the buff Ice Lance received.

[haxartus]

Neither Frost nor Fire give a crap about mana, so Evocation would only be useful for the heal

Yes. Some people enjoy PvP. This is the biggest PvP nerf since the time they put a GCD on counterspell in TBC.