[Mage-WoD] Mage Beta Discussion

[Shangalar]

Must confess that I find it odd that an increase in cooldown without an increase in throughput is being considered a buff. They didn't adjust throughput upwards, did they? So... How can this possibly be a buff?

Because for Arcane we were kind of confused how to play around Prismatic Crystal with it being on 1 minute cooldown, while Evocation and Power are 90 seconds. Would it be better to use it on cd or delay or whatever. With all of it being 1.5 minutes we can line up burn phases with PC every time. For Fire I suppose it's because Combustion is also on a 1.5 minute cooldown. It's not necessarily a buff, but it makes gameplay more logical and fluid and being able to line it up with our main cooldown kind of constitutes calling it a buff.

[Imnick]

If you can line up PC with the burn phase every time it might not necessarily be more damage than if the cooldown was 30 seconds shorter, but it's definitely an improvement in gameplay and feels less (god I hate this word) "clunky".
Whether you'd regard that as a buff or not is down to you I suppose.

[Trylldom]

I'm guessing I'm not the only one experiencing a change with PC for fire on latest build. It seems to despawn when hit by inferno blast. Not sure if intended or not, but it's annoying as HELL considering inferno blast comes natural to press with heating up proc. My bad if this change was made on earlier builds.

Edit: It actually despawns from a single pyro as well, so I'm guessing its just bugged out.

And yea, 4pc seem to hardly proc at all atm, and the 4 second window seems very narrow making it rather insignificant as far as a 4pc bonus goes.

[gallamann]

Wonder if the 2pc frost change was to curtail infinite IV.

4pc I don't get, on the other hand it is rare a spec actually gets solid use out of both 2pc and 4pc. Just glad 4pc isn't the better choice.

PC nerf I was expecting, just never entertained the idea of a cooldown increase, like it. For Frost you can line up every other PC with FO, for the in between one just bank 2 FoF, 2 BF and Waterjet.

[SodiumChloride]

I have given up on the new Frost Bomb. It's just not fun.

Going to go with unstable magic, random cleaving be damned.

Replacing the Frost Bomb keybind with Frostjaw. I ain't got that many keybinds anyway.

[Polarthief]

GOOD GAME SET BONUSES!

Wow, that's extremely disappointing to see such awesome and fun bonuses turn into... well, mediocre versions of themselves.

[Janir]

I'm guessing I'm not the only one experiencing a change with PC for fire on latest build. It seems to despawn when hit by inferno blast. Not sure if intended or not, but it's annoying as HELL considering inferno blast comes natural to press with heating up proc. My bad if this change was made on earlier builds.

Edit: It actually despawns from a single pyro as well, so I'm guessing its just bugged out.

Yea, it's been quite buggy after latest patch. PC takes like 100x more dmg than it should and because you hit so hard you "kill" it instantly.

[Deleted]

Looking back at it now, nerfing the duration of Fire's 4pc seems a bit much when considering the PPM nerf. Considering normal reaction time and the GCD, you'll be able to maybe get 3 Pyro's off at most during the proc. I think that would have been fine if the PPM hadn't been nerfed.

I also don't know that the 1.5m CD on PC is actually a real large nerf to Fire either. Like with Arcane and AP, it lines up with Combustion perfectly now. The only issue is the building of the Combustion on the crystal consistently.

[Polarthief]

Looking back at it now, nerfing the duration of Fire's 4pc seems a bit much when considering the PPM nerf. Considering normal reaction time and the GCD, you'll be able to maybe get 3 Pyro's off at most during the proc. I think that would have been fine if the PPM hadn't been nerfed.

I also don't know that the 1.5m CD on PC is actually a real large nerf to Fire either. Like with Arcane and AP, it lines up with Combustion perfectly now. The only issue is the building of the Combustion on the crystal consistently.

Would it be worth using glyphed Combustion if you use PC? Since PC only lasts 10, it obviously won't get the full duration. Also, with cleaving being back for PC, wouldn't you build the Combustion on a mob then spread to crystal/others? Haven't been following Fire too closely so excuse my ignorance.

... And just for knowledge sake, you unglyph Combustion with Meteor, right?

[Deleted]

IIRC it wasn't worth unglyphing Combustion in any situation because it still snapshots.

[Frost1129]

Wonder if the 2pc frost change was to curtail infinite IV.

4pc I don't get, on the other hand it is rare a spec actually gets solid use out of both 2pc and 4pc. Just glad 4pc isn't the better choice.

PC nerf I was expecting, just never entertained the idea of a cooldown increase, like it. For Frost you can line up every other PC with FO, for the in between one just bank 2 FoF, 2 BF and Waterjet.

2pc change didn't do anything to affect TV extension or diminish the incentive to us non-FoF IL

[Deleted]

Also, with cleaving being back for PC, wouldn't you build the Combustion on a mob then spread to crystal/others? Haven't been following Fire too closely so excuse my ignorance.

... And just for knowledge sake, you unglyph Combustion with Meteor, right?

You can't cleave DoTs TO the crystal, only FROM the crystal on other targets.

Don't know if it's better overall, but I don't use the glyph and always played with Meteor. But the glyph could be worth with PC to build a "bigger" ignite on the crystal and then spread the higher and longer combustion on the boss/mob. No matter how long combustion would be actually on the PC then, but it should be still higher and for the full duration on the boss/mobs.

But waiting for the 4pc to spam pyros on the PC is in my opinion a waste of CD time now with 1 RPPM.

[gallamann]

2pc change didn't do anything to affect TV extension or diminish the incentive to us non-FoF IL

I was looking more at the loss of damage aspect, with old 2pc no Glyph of IV, that was 9-10 casts of FoF IL, now it is 5 maybe 4 depending on latency. That is a sizable chunk of damage gone. On the other hand they did kick PC in the nads, and Nath's prelim looks are showing TV to infinite IV to be on par with PC lined up to FO.

Edit - now if they would just put CS into play

[Trylldom]

But waiting for the 4pc to spam pyros on the PC is in my opinion a waste of CD time now with 1 RPPM.

Which is very sad, cause fire felt like it was working again with the 4pc just days ago.

[voltaa]

GOOD GAME SET BONUSES!

Wow, that's extremely disappointing to see such awesome and fun bonuses turn into... well, mediocre versions of themselves.

Right, mediocre aka average...balanced.

[Frost1129]

GOOD GAME SET BONUSES!

Wow, that's extremely disappointing to see such awesome and fun bonuses turn into... well, mediocre versions of themselves.

They are functionally the same, what are you talking about? The only difference is their DPS contribution now. Frost/Fire set bonuses were completely insane in terms of throughput.

On a related note, the fire 4pc is now extremely difficult to use in game. You need sub-GCD reaction times throughout your entire rotation, at every moment you are generating a HS. One mistake, and you are channeling a fireball as a fireball strikes the target, generating the 4pc - aka wasting 1/2 it's benefit. This is something sims will not suffer from. We really need to bring this to celestalons attention, this is one scenario where sims are almost certainly going to lead us in the wrong direction, or at least give us an overestimate of what we can expect in game to see.

[Polarthief]

Right, mediocre aka average...balanced.

Well they're just meh. 4s of free Pyros (After taking human error/reaction times, turns into 3s-3.5s) and the Frost 4P is fairly weak now, especially when they were originally considering something waaaaaay stronger.

[voltaa]

Well they're just meh. 4s of free Pyros (After taking human error/reaction times, turns into 3s-3.5s) and the Frost 4P is fairly weak now, especially when they were originally considering something waaaaaay stronger.

I was more talking frost bonuses with that, fire bonus needs work still

[Frost1129]

Updated Fire sims from the PC change / set bonus change:

http://altered-time.com/forum/viewto...p?p=6108#p6108

[Polarthief]

I was more talking frost bonuses with that, fire bonus needs work still

Methinks the 4P should just be scrapped or modified to "in the next 5 seconds, this effect will trigger", so you can prepare for it.

Updated Fire sims from the PC change / set bonus change:

http://altered-time.com/forum/viewto...p?p=6108#p6108

Well at least it didn't hurt it too badly.