WOD Spriest Mastery..

[Fainth]

Shadow Priest’s Mastery (Shadowy Recall) has been replaced with a new Mastery: Mental Anguish.
Mastery: Mental Anguish: Increases the damage of Mind Blast, Mind Spike, Mind Flay, and Mind Sear by 20%.

That along with the new level 100 talent clarity of power could make for some real fun.

[Cerbz]

Patch notes look great so far.

[Juicebox]

My only issue with this is the need to collect gear with different stats depending on the encounter...

[Yvaelle]

This won't go live, or if it does, it won't stay live for more than 24 hours.

What they think their goal is:

"Shadow Priests who want to focus on single-target damage can aim for Mastery in their gearing; or, when multi-dotting is more valuable, prefer other secondary stats over Mastery."

What they think will accomplish this goal:

"Shadow Priest’s Mastery (Shadowy Recall) has been replaced with a new Mastery: Mental Anguish.

Mastery: Mental Anguish: Increases the damage of Mind Blast, Mind Spike, Mind Flay, and Mind Sear by 20%."


For this to be worth anything, this mastery needs to scale to like, 60-80% with mastery stacking - Mind Spike, Mind Flay, and Mind Blast make such a small proportion of our single target damage that this mastery won't actually be a single target increase unless these are massive % modifiers like this.

Also, I'm not sure if they are aware of this... but Mind Sear is a very potent AoE spell... on a single target mastery? /boggle




Mind Spike isn't worth casting unmodified in MoP, which means that it - proportionally - can't be any much lower in WoD - it's too shitty to have a spot in our spell priorities without FDCL/ToF - so it can't really be any worse than "not worth using". Given that, regardless of how they rebalance proportions - it's still fair to think of Mind Spike doing proportional damage to what it does currently.

Why am I focusing on Mind Spike?

Let's say Mind Spike deals 100% damage. Modified by FDCL, it deals 150%, and etc:

100% * 50% (FDCL) * 15% (ToF) * 40% (Clarity of Power) * 80% (Mastery: Mental Anguish) = 434.7%

Which is to say that Mind Spike under ideal conditions in WoD would deal ~435% of base damage. Even if the base damage isn't worth casting under any conditions (as it is now) - dealing over four times the base damage is liable to be overpowered. Further, assuming the 3% bonus critical damage Meta Gem still exists in WoD - a critical Mind Spike would deal a whopping 882% of base damage: nearly 9 GCDs of damage in a single instant cast proc will never be balanced - let alone stacking up a couple of those procs and dropping them back to back for potentially 18 GCDs (half a minute of mind spike baseline casts) in 2 GCDs.

And that's not all - what it does to Mind Blast is similarly unbalanceable.

Mind Blast = 100%

100% (baseline) * 1.15 (ToF) * 1.4 (Clarity of Power) * 1.8 (Mental Anguish) = 289% of baseline

A critical Mind Blast under those conditions would deal 587% of a baseline non-crit.

That is unbalanceable - it's just too big of a range - and the argument that it would be hard to juggle ToF and Clarity of Power and FDCL or DI - or that we have to stack mastery, or use some obscure mastery proc (or on-use) trinket to make it happen - won't sate the waterfall of tears that PvP Spriests will cause with a mastery like this, talents like this, and class design like this: something has to give.

So, don't get your hopes up - because while they apparently have no idea what they're doing with mastery, and they don't know what Mind Sear does - they will know that somethings wrong if this went live

[kaamila]

This won't go live, or if it does, it won't stay live for more than 24 hours.

What they think their goal is:

"Shadow Priests who want to focus on single-target damage can aim for Mastery in their gearing; or, when multi-dotting is more valuable, prefer other secondary stats over Mastery."

What they think will accomplish this goal:

"Shadow Priest’s Mastery (Shadowy Recall) has been replaced with a new Mastery: Mental Anguish.

Mastery: Mental Anguish: Increases the damage of Mind Blast, Mind Spike, Mind Flay, and Mind Sear by 20%."


For this to be worth anything, this mastery needs to scale to like, 60-80% with mastery stacking - Mind Spike, Mind Flay, and Mind Blast make such a small proportion of our single target damage that this mastery won't actually be a single target increase unless these are massive % modifiers like this.

Also, I'm not sure if they are aware of this... but Mind Sear is a very potent AoE spell... on a single target mastery? /boggle




Mind Spike isn't worth casting unmodified in MoP, which means that it - proportionally - can't be any much lower in WoD - it's too shitty to have a spot in our spell priorities without FDCL/ToF - so it can't really be any worse than "not worth using". Given that, regardless of how they rebalance proportions - it's still fair to think of Mind Spike doing proportional damage to what it does currently.

Why am I focusing on Mind Spike?

Let's say Mind Spike deals 100% damage. Modified by FDCL, it deals 150%, and etc:

100% * 50% (FDCL) * 15% (ToF) * 40% (Clarity of Power) * 80% (Mastery: Mental Anguish) = 434.7%

Which is to say that Mind Spike under ideal conditions in WoD would deal ~435% of base damage. Even if the base damage isn't worth casting under any conditions (as it is now) - dealing over four times the base damage is liable to be overpowered. Further, assuming the 3% bonus critical damage Meta Gem still exists in WoD - a critical Mind Spike would deal a whoping 882% of base damage. Doing nearly 9 GCDs of damage in a single instant cast proc will never be balanced - let alone stacking up a couple of those procs and dropping them back to back for potentially 18 GCDs (a full minute of mind spike baseline casts) in 2 GCDs.

And that's not all - what it does to Mind Blast is similarly unbalanceable.

Mind Blast = 100%

100% (baseline) * 1.15 (ToF) * 1.4 (Clarity of Power) * 1.8 (Mental Anguish) = 289% of baseline

A critical Mind Blast under those conditions would deal 587% of a baseline non-crit.

That is simply unbalanceable - it's just too big of a range - and the argument that it would be hard to juggle ToF and Clarity of Power and FDCL or DI - or that we have to stack mastery, or use some obscure mastery proc (or on-use) trinket to make it happen - won't appear the veil of tears that PvP Spriests will cause with a mastery like this, talents like this, and class design like this: something has to give.

So, don't get your hopes up - because while they apparently have no idea what they're doing with mastery, and they don't know what Mind Sear does - they will know that somethings wrong if this went live

ya i was confused at the mind sear add-in lol. and if your math is right, theres no way it would go live, plus depending on how the fights are in the new raids(more single target or more multi) having to get 2 different sets of gears for 1 spec is gonna be stupid with no reforging

[Deleted]

I'm more afraid of a possibility that at certain mastery point it will become better to cast no dots at all in single target DPS. It annoys me that they refuse to admit that the best SP ever been was during cata. They keep pushing the class away from dots.

[Aeriel]

The situations where you would be able to use the bonus from FDCL and Clarity of Power together would be rare, and Void Entropy or Audiscious Spirits would likely win out in those cases.

That said, unless you spec specifically for Mind Spike, it will likely hit like a gust of wind. Which would make it's 434.7% modified damage that you list be more like ~250% to fit with Mind Blast, as it would be the spammable version.

[Laysson]

Boring and OP mastery.

[tiporispit]

Why do most of you think it's a 20% boost to the numbers you're currently putting out? They'll almost certainly nerf base damage across the board, and this Mastery will be the output they manipulate to keep your numbers hovering around the output of other classes. DoT and AoE damage will also be adjusted to compensate for the single target increase. It's not a major buff. At best, it's a slight increase that will bring single target more in line with other classes. Expect "middle of the road" performance.

[Aeriel]

Why do most of you think it's a 20% boost to the numbers you're currently putting out? They'll almost certainly nerf base damage across the board, and this Mastery will be the output they manipulate to keep your numbers hovering around the output of other classes. DoT and AoE damage will also be adjusted to compensate for the single target increase. It's not a major buff. At best, it's a slight increase that will bring single target more in line with other classes. Expect "middle of the road" performance.

There is no base damage. All damage is based off of SP. Basically Mind Spike's damage formula will be like 50% SP, MF 100% SP, MB 125% SP, and so forth. These are random numbers, but it sets MF as your "spam" base level of 100% SP instead of 3147 + 50% SP as it is now.

[Yvaelle]

The situations where you would be able to use the bonus from FDCL and Clarity of Power together would be rare, and Void Entropy or Audiscious Spirits would likely win out in those cases.

It's not at all unreasonable for PvP comps like Shatterplay or RPS to expect to run Clarity of Power in WoD, to multi-dot off-targets, and then hard swap during a shatterbomb or shadowdance and burn all our procs into a kill target: especcially when we could potentially throw down a minute worth of baseline casts in just a few GCDs.

I've no doubt that Void Entropy or Auspicious Spirits would frequently prove better in PvE, the issue is entirely a PvE vs. PvP balance issue - in order for this mastery to be worth anything at all in PvE, it has to be completely broken in PvP: anything less will not have the desired effect on PvE.

[Aeriel]

It's not at all unreasonable for PvP comps like Shatterplay or RPS to expect to run Clarity of Power in WoD, to multi-dot off-targets, and then hard swap during a shatterbomb or shadowdance and burn all our procs into a kill target: especcially when we could potentially throw down a minute worth of baseline casts in just a few GCDs.

I've no doubt that Void Entropy or Auspicious Spirits would frequently prove better in PvE, the issue is entirely a PvE vs. PvP balance issue - in order for this mastery to be worth anything at all in PvE, it has to be completely broken in PvP: anything less will not have the desired effect on PvE.

Yeah. I was just thinking about PvE. However, you do show why Mind Spike is basically going to need the lowest SP conversion of any ability, and on par with the individual tick of a DoT. I have the feeling that it's going back to the days of "use when set bonuses boost it", but take it off of your bar otherwise.

A "better" Mastery would change the 20% damage increase to a "20% chance for MF (per cast, not tick) and Mind Spike to give a Shadow Orb, and for MB to give an additional Shadow Orb". Though that might make Auspicious Spirits almost useless.

[Aere]

My only issue with this is the need to collect gear with different stats depending on the encounter...

Exactly, and Shadowpriests would have to be the best at both single target and multi dotting to warrant having your guild give you two sets of gear.

Edit: just adding on, depending on the fights in the tiers and whether or not they're most likely single target or multidotting, you will have to choose which set to gear for, and in return you get to sit out on all of the other fights, because you aren't viable.

(I know this is Alpha, ect, ect.) But we're also going to lose multi target damage from the removal of our current mastery as well.

Also, I very highly doubt that in a single target situation removing our current mastery and having the new mastery will increase our damage much at all, unless, as Yvaelle has stated it has a very high scaling.

[Cerbz]

Also, I'm not sure if they are aware of this... but Mind Sear is a very potent AoE spell... on a single target mastery? /boggle

With the loss of our current mastery, Mind Sear would be really weak without being tied to the new one.

Boring and OP mastery.

Not any less boring than our current mastery.

[Deleted]

I smell nerf in the morning !!! :P

[Forsay]

I guess we will have to gather 2 gear sets. Also FDCL and DI will be unusable with this version of Clarity of Power on single target. Insanity is going to suck because the new mastery doesn't affect it. This is alpha and our talents don't make sense yet, I hope Blizz will change a lot of it but who knows really, as MoP shows they can screw up shadow even more and more no matter what.

I like 4 ticks Mindflay and 2 orb SWD though.

[Dierdre]

My only issue with this is the need to collect gear with different stats depending on the encounter...

This x 10^23. I honestly hope this isn't their only take on fixing our ST damage.

Also, mind sear is going off that mastery list in 5...4...3...

[Keosen]

Yeah having 2 gear sets for the same spec but different bosses will be a pain.
And beside it's alpha and stuff i wonder why they can't see the obvious issues that will arise, every day i'm getting a bit more convinced than no dev is actually playing a Shadowpriest.

The only thing i like so far is the SWD added in our rotation and the MF spam block.

[Kuniku]

I don't really play shadow, but I'm somehwat annoyed how boring the new mastery is. When introduced mastery spells were supposed to be fun and exciting, flat % to some spells just seems rather boring to me.

[Deleted]

@Yvaelle , you are comparing 2 completely different games and therefore have no ground to stand on with the scaling factors you just presented.

The lack of snapshotting will drop the portion of DoT damage in our dps breakdown significantly, except DP maybe.

The removal of %base dmg will open our hardcasts to more dynamic scaling with spellpower which , in addition to our new mastery , could snowball MoP Warlock Style
(Yes i said it) , and will most likely completely change how our overall dps breakdown and Dpet values turn out.

So its basically like always, never make assumptions until late beta.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess we will have to gather 2 gear sets. Also FDCL and DI will be unusable with this version of Clarity of Power on single target. Insanity is going to suck because the new mastery doesn't affect it. This is alpha and our talents don't make sense yet, I hope Blizz will change a lot of it but who knows really, as MoP shows they can screw up shadow even more and more no matter what.

I like 4 ticks Mindflay and 2 orb SWD though.

It also increases mindflay dmg, so it does affect insanity quite a lot since with 5 orbs in store you can time the shit out of trinket proccs proccs and dump the biggest insanities imaginable in a short window :P ( damn i'm excited )