6.0 Warrior changes discussion thread

[sjsctt]

Everyone needs to calm down! Do you seriously think they are removing so much from us and not giving us a replacement? I'm not gonna bother even reading notes until I'm in the beta.

They are pruning abilities actually. Fact of the matter is they probably will remove shield wall. Despite using a ton of resources on getting the animations to allow shield wall without a shield, we have a ton of defensives right now. They also recycled the artwork to use with spell reflect/mass spell reflect as well. I hope we keep it, but would not be surprised if we don't.

Here is what we have currently
Defensive stance: 25% mitigation
DBTS: 100% parry (LOL! Tank dies, it isn't a wipe...can't tell you how many times I've taunted the boss while the tank gets rezzed)--Doesn't save from specials, but still...
Shield wall
Mass Spell reflect: Admitidly rarely gets used, but when it does, it is OP (think back to lei shen.)
Rally Cry: If not needed for raid CD, can save your life on from something like taking fall damage on the SC Blackfuse belt while you have the DOT on you
Edit in vigilance...
And finally, our healing talent portion of the tree.

Compare that to a DK:
AMS
Mass Grip
Icebound fortitude
Blood presence
AMZ
Raise Ally

Our's are just way more versatile. Poor pallys don't have 1/2 of these--and if I missed one or mis quoted a tool tip--sorry. Posting from phone!

[Ryanite]

I'm pretty darn annoyed with the proposed changes.

- To pick up shattering throw, essential for pvp I have to lose a glyph slot....ok
- I lose a banner to charge to, my crit skull banner and a nerf to recklessness
- Bladestorm moved, can't combo with bloodbath, can't have both single target and a nice aoe cd for boss fights that require both
- Berserking rage no longer giving rage, what..
- I understand charge rooting instead of stun, fits with the whole reduced cc model along with 6 second intimidating shouts but this plus a lot of this other stuff just seems so over board. I can see it now, I'll never catch a druid ever again. shifts out of my root. runs away.
- Not being able to shout during blade storm.. at first I thought the talent tree change was not so bad maybe I'll combo blade storm with dragon roar. nope, gg no rallying cry
- Hamstring being a passive ability sounds good but allows druids to shift and run while you wait for mortal strike to come off cd to re apply it.
- oh my second wind, what have they done to you. no more soloing bosses that have aoe damage and low mobs

Gladiator stance does seem like something fun but overall I think they went too far with these changes and really hope they consider tuning some of them back.

The 90-100 perks seem to mostly focus on increasing damage and not making up for the lost utility

I just read that we may also be losing shield wall

Just seems like way too many changes all at once

P.S please let me heroic leap up slight hills, I don't even get why they don't let us leap anywhere for world PvP most places you can just fly to and really what's a warrior gonna do once he get's there? They could also go over the Bg maps and define the areas that are leapable. I'm so sick of chasing someone up hill and being locked out of an ability.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty darn annoyed with the proposed changes.

- To pick up shattering throw, essential for pvp I have to lose a glyph slot....ok
- I lose a banner to charge to, my crit skull banner and a nerf to recklessness
- Bladestorm moved, can't combo with bloodbath, can't have both single target and a nice aoe cd for boss fights that require both
- Berserking rage no longer giving rage, what..
- I understand charge rooting instead of stun, fits with the whole reduced cc model along with 6 second intimidating shouts but this plus a lot of this other stuff just seems so over board. I can see it now, I'll never catch a druid ever again. shifts out of my root. runs away.
- Not being able to shout during blade storm.. at first I thought the talent tree change was not so bad maybe I'll combo blade storm with dragon roar. nope, gg no rallying cry
- Hamstring being a passive ability sounds good but allows druids to shift and run while you wait for mortal strike to come off cd to re apply it.
- oh my second wind, what have they done to you. no more soloing bosses that have aoe damage and low mobs

Gladiator stance does seem like something fun but overall I think they went too far with these changes and really hope they consider tuning some of them back.

The 90-100 perks seem to mostly focus on increasing damage and not making up for the lost utility

I just read that we may also be losing shield wall

Just seems like way too many changes all at once

P.S please let me heroic leap up slight hills, I don't even get why they don't let us leap anywhere for world PvP most places you can just fly to and really what's a warrior gonna do once he get's there? They could also go over the Bg maps and define the areas that are leapable. I'm so sick of chasing someone up hill and being locked out of an ability.

Hey. You - yeah you. Tell you what that crazy Bird on the Front Site told me: All Classes get revamped and rebalanced. It's not like we're the only ones and are so damn useless now. Read the Notes for every Class, then wait for Beta. Then wait for the Addon to go live and THEN you can come back here and cry about how they made us useless in PvP. Or .. maybe just don't because everythings fine in the end?

It is ok to discuss changes, but please note that this thread is to discuss warrior specific changes. You are specifically discouraging the discussion. Everyone here knows that these are not permanent and are subject to change. Please avoid calling people out for having grievances with proposed changes, and instead engage with meaningful dialog about why you either like/dislike or am impartial to a change.

[Archimtiros]

I'm pretty darn annoyed with the proposed changes.

- To pick up shattering throw, essential for pvp I have to lose a glyph slot....ok
- I lose a banner to charge to, my crit skull banner and a nerf to recklessness
- Bladestorm moved, can't combo with bloodbath, can't have both single target and a nice aoe cd for boss fights that require both
- Berserking rage no longer giving rage, what..
- I understand charge rooting instead of stun, fits with the whole reduced cc model along with 6 second intimidating shouts but this plus a lot of this other stuff just seems so over board. I can see it now, I'll never catch a druid ever again. shifts out of my root. runs away.
- Not being able to shout during blade storm.. at first I thought the talent tree change was not so bad maybe I'll combo blade storm with dragon roar. nope, gg no rallying cry
- Hamstring being a passive ability sounds good but allows druids to shift and run while you wait for mortal strike to come off cd to re apply it.
- oh my second wind, what have they done to you. no more soloing bosses that have aoe damage and low mobs

Gladiator stance does seem like something fun but overall I think they went too far with these changes and really hope they consider tuning some of them back.

The 90-100 perks seem to mostly focus on increasing damage and not making up for the lost utility

I just read that we may also be losing shield wall

Just seems like way too many changes all at once

P.S please let me heroic leap up slight hills, I don't even get why they don't let us leap anywhere for world PvP most places you can just fly to and really what's a warrior gonna do once he get's there? They could also go over the Bg maps and define the areas that are leapable. I'm so sick of chasing someone up hill and being locked out of an ability.

Sounds like you are supremely unhappy in general. Yes we should wait for more information from Beta, but these are changes that aren't likely to change again so here goes:

1) Shattering Throw - Every class is getting some utility nerfs in and out of PvP. I think its a bit silly to have to glyph into something we had before as well but it isn't a huge hit, you only use it against two classes anyways, and with things like Paladins they are generally healed up by the time you break their bubble anyways.

2) Banner and Reck - Banner charging was never a core tenant. It wasn't their primary function. You still get to do it with Mocking Banner, Crit Banner is being rolled into Reck and ALL class CD's are getting nerfed.

3) BzR might actually just be a tooltip change. Latest tooltips say "enrage you and grant immunity to fear, etc". They removed the "granting 10 rage and increased..." text but that text is in the Enrage tooltip. I just gotta say wait and see what happens here.

4) I hate druids, feel your pain there. Can only hope they get nerfed and don't keep the ridiculous snare breakers they currently have.

5) I've been trying to get clarification on Bladestorm abilities because it seems very random, but you should have never thought you'd Dragon Roar during Bladestorm. Regardless I'd imagine you'd take Shockwave or Storm Bolt since you seem very PvP focused.

6) Hamstring - You can still take Piercing Howl for when you think you'll need spammable interrupts. The passive change is very good though. Before you just spent the whole time spamming Hamstring on Druids anyways, so there really is no change. Yes PHowl comes with a rage cost, but if your problem is druids you should prob be running a comp that can counter them. I am fairly certain we will see Hamstring get applied to something else for Prot and Arms. Seems weird that Fury gets it on BT and RB. But Arms is only on the (longer CD) MS. At the same time, would seem strange to have it on Overpower (spammable) and Slam (no CD/not a proc).

7) Second Wind - Shouldn't really play any difference on soloing bosses, the change is there so you can't kite and heal. Long as your dealing damage you should still heal up roughly the same.

8) Shield Wall - Might also be a weird tooltip issue. There is a glyph for it that specifically states Arms/Fury, so time will tell. We still have a LOT of mitigation, highest on demand mitigation in the game actually.

9) Heroic Leap - Will never leap up hills again, its too hard to code where it should/not be used and easily exploited to do dumb shit (like leaping up buildings). All I can say is plan accordingly, use your leap when on flat ground and charge up the hills in PvP instead (hills, not up walls, we both know that doesn't and shouldn't work). You can't "go through the map and define areas that are leapable" the system isn't set up like that.

10) Glad Stance - I don't even know what you mean here.

Yes there are a lot of changes at once but... that's kind of what you get with a new expansion. You know how boring as hell this game would be if our classes evolved? This expansion isn't even changing that much, nothing really core about the class is changing, its mostly things that are new that are getting changed/removed.

[Vileknight]

...Right now I'm thinking that Raging Blow won't work the way it does now at all.

As I was reading this it gave me an idea that could potentially work:

What if Raging Blow had 2 charges that we started off with and every X seconds another charge would be granted, when BT lands we lose X seconds off of a Raging blow cooldown and if it crits we are given a charge of Raging Blow. I know this is not written elegantly but in theory this could help alleviate our problems with crit and also give fury a little burst boost in PVP since our crit rates are severly lower than PVE.

It would look something like this:

Raging Blow
2 charges
15 second cooldown per charge
10 Rage
Melee Range

Instant cast
Requires Warrior (Fury)
Requires level 30

Requires Melee Weapon
A mighty blow that deals X% weapon damage from both melee weapons.

Colossus Smash and Bloodthirst hits grant the warrior X seconds off a currently recharging Raging Blow while becoming Enraged enables one charge of Raging Blow.

Limit 2 charges

[Deleted]

As I was reading this it gave me an idea that could potentially work:

What if Raging Blow had 2 charges that we started off with and every X seconds another charge would be granted, when BT lands we lose X seconds off of a Raging blow cooldown and if it crits we are given a charge of Raging Blow. I know this is not written elegantly but in theory this could help alleviate our problems with crit and also give fury a little burst boost in PVP since our crit rates are severly lower than PVE.

It would look something like this:

Raging Blow
2 charges
15 second cooldown per charge
10 Rage
Melee Range

Instant cast
Requires Warrior (Fury)
Requires level 30

Requires Melee Weapon
A mighty blow that deals X% weapon damage from both melee weapons.

Colossus Smash and Bloodthirst hits grant the warrior X seconds off a currently recharging Raging Blow while becoming Enraged enables one charge of Raging Blow.

Limit 2 charges

First of all -> I still can't believe, that somebody took my previous Post, which was totally justified as an Insult? I guess that's common here now. Anyway, sorry it wasn't meant to offend anyone, but just crying over Class Changes already, without seeing the whole picture is dumb. Especially when every Class gets hit by Changes.

On Topic:

I actually thought about this too, this is a very nice Idea. I feel like both WoW and Diablo Dev Teams got obsessed with CDR (Readiness) and overall Reduction of CD's to make way for a sustained output with enough room to grow with gear.

For example let's say you have Anger Management chosen in the Talents.
You have the Passive that reduces GCD and the Bloodthirst CD, based on your Haste Rating.
And we somewhat keep the remainder of our Fury Mechanic, but with your Change to RB.

I don't have any math right now, but maybe this sounds good enough to make it through to Sarri, Arti, Jalopy and co. ...

You would actually have good use for all 3 Stats: Crit, Haste, Mastery. Maybe even Multi-Strike/Readiness etc.
Crit would higher the Chances that you get Enrage in General and RB's from BT and CS.
Haste would Reduce the GCD as it says, allowing you to get more Abilities into CS at certain Breakpoints (even though they didn't want any, with WoD?)
At the same time though, it would also reduce Bloodthirst's CD, allowing for more BT's that can Crit or at least grant CDR on RB Charges, to prepare a Perfect CS Phase.
I'm actually losing my thoughts right here.. I guess you get it though.. maybe charges on RB limit at more than 2?
Oh well shit, I just totally lost my thought right there..
Well play with the thought as you please, I'll post it in full once I recovered the pieces in my Memory..^^

[Deleted]

I am sorry but to me that doesnt make sense. So from one point you both say that they like readiness cause it promotes dps sustainability and then you wanna have charges on rb the other way around than it is now? So what you say is i charge in and pop cds/cs and kick the shit out of everything cause basically i dont need to "build up"? Now take that and place it also into a pvp perspective.
The same locks could say, hey can we start with 3 embers so we can do 3M per cb on pull? Terrible idea...

[Eranthe]

i would really love them to take the rage cost off piercing howl again. still leave it on gcd so there's some penalty, but it's super annoying to deal with classes with spammable snare breakers without being able to snare on demand.

also, i wouldn't get too caught up about them removing shield wall from arms and fury. it doesn't really fit our set of abilities that well and there's very little interesting gameplay in using it imo. they can and will tune raid encounters around reduced defensive cooldown usage and do the same for pvp.

it's pretty damn annoying in pvp when every class has a million defensive abilities with short cooldowns so it feel like they're always up.

[cFortyfive]

also, i wouldn't get too caught up about them removing shield wall from arms and fury. it doesn't really fit our set of abilities that well and there's very little interesting gameplay in using it imo. they can and will tune raid encounters around reduced defensive cooldown usage and do the same for pvp.

What fits and is interesting are quite subjective. Personally I'd get rid of def stance for a mechanic ignore/shield wall. Those permanent damage reductions just aren't working out too well.

The same locks could say, hey can we start with 3 embers so we can do 3M per cb on pull? Terrible idea...

While I don't find the idea necessarily that appealing I don't think that's the right compariosn especially with the current crit rates we are having.

[CollisionTD]

First of all -> I still can't believe, that somebody took my previous Post, which was totally justified as an Insult? I guess that's common here now. Anyway, sorry it wasn't meant to offend anyone, but just crying over Class Changes already, without seeing the whole picture is dumb. Especially when every Class gets hit by Changes.

On Topic:

I actually thought about this too, this is a very nice Idea. I feel like both WoW and Diablo Dev Teams got obsessed with CDR (Readiness) and overall Reduction of CD's to make way for a sustained output with enough room to grow with gear.

For example let's say you have Anger Management chosen in the Talents.
You have the Passive that reduces GCD and the Bloodthirst CD, based on your Haste Rating.
And we somewhat keep the remainder of our Fury Mechanic, but with your Change to RB.

I don't have any math right now, but maybe this sounds good enough to make it through to Sarri, Arti, Jalopy and co. ...

You would actually have good use for all 3 Stats: Crit, Haste, Mastery. Maybe even Multi-Strike/Readiness etc.
Crit would higher the Chances that you get Enrage in General and RB's from BT and CS.
Haste would Reduce the GCD as it says, allowing you to get more Abilities into CS at certain Breakpoints (even though they didn't want any, with WoD?)
At the same time though, it would also reduce Bloodthirst's CD, allowing for more BT's that can Crit or at least grant CDR on RB Charges, to prepare a Perfect CS Phase.
I'm actually losing my thoughts right here.. I guess you get it though.. maybe charges on RB limit at more than 2?
Oh well shit, I just totally lost my thought right there..
Well play with the thought as you please, I'll post it in full once I recovered the pieces in my Memory..^^

Changing raging blow to 3 charges will likely never happen. It's not as good of an idea as you think anyway.

(edited old information)

[Deleted]

Better be decent than useless as fuck or op as nuclear weapons.

Only time Warriors ever where useless where during s5 DK/Retlol
Being OP is fun, Blizzard always overbuff or overnerf, so better enter a expansion being to weak then to strong.

[Jalopy]

Berserker Rage now has spec specific tooltips. Arms: Activating Berserker Rage also grants 1 use of Raging Blow

Called it what do I win

E: And pretty much nail in the coffin for fury/arms having shield wall.

[Requiel]

Arms: Activating Berserker Rage also grants 1 use of Raging Blow

noice arms with raging blow

[Jalopy]

noice arms with raging blow

Yes it's time

[Wow]

With that glyph change I'm guessing shieldwall really is prot only.

[Deleted]

Still nothing to adress the low enrage uptime with low crit chances?
I thought they would at least go the lazy solution to extend enrage buff from 6 to 9 seconds to cover 2 BT cycles.

[Deleted]

am i the only one really really tired of warrior? This colossus smash rage dumping system is killing me...warrior use to be brute force no matter what situation now its just spam all you can while you have it up...

[Deleted]

You mean Warrior use tot be blood thirst > WW 2 button rotation with heroic strike as rage dump?

[Deleted]

Yes it's time

I hope you're kidding, but to be clear:
http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/18499-berserker-rage

The datamined notes were correct, then some mmoc editor went over the datamined changes to make it more "readable" and fucked up, RB is still very much Fury only.

[Deleted]

I love every change.