6.0 Warrior changes discussion thread

[Artunias]

They need to bring overpower back!

[Eranthe]

Consistent, predictable damage almost never kills you and your team in any situation, it's when something happens that you don't have control of (take Spoils when your healer gets the bomb back to back and you lack hybrids).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attrition_warfare

in a world where mana is actually finite, (aka the good expansions this game has had) boring, predictable damage certainly will kill the other team. this discussion goes straight to the core of changes in gameplay mechanics since wrath of the lich king and reinforces a lot of my criticisms with the direction the game is going.

in the original design of the game, warriors and rogues were limited by their resources in the short term, (you could only generate so much in a given time period) but infinite over the course of the fight. this made us excel at sustained dps, but not so much at burst.

in the original design of the game, casters and healers were limited by their resources (mana) in the long term, but for the short term they could spam their highest damage/healing moves. this meant they were good for short periods but they needed to recharge at some point. if you can hold out long enough for them to recharge, you'll catch up on damage (whether on dps meters or when you're trying to kill them).

since WoTLK, mana is basically not a resource. that had drastic effects on the checks and balances of the game, including the one you've just mentioned. in a world where every class has unlimited resources and can spam heals/damage abilities forever, the only way to kill someone is to nuke them down in 3 seconds or land a 21 second cc chain.

also one more thing: you say having burst is important for raiding. that's totally true, but if every fucking class has burst and every class has sustained aoe and every class has burst aoe and every class can cleave, it takes a lot away from the individuality of the classes and it makes the game worse.

also one more thing again: these poems are fabulous!!!!!!

[Enyasi]

I got some ideas for Fury today. Nothing special, and I don't claim they will be the solution, but something we can discuss, as we are happy making poems right now.

First one is to solve the Enrage being too short for some mechanics (read Bladestorm) and give other secundary some meaning: make white hits multistrikes increase Enrage by 0.5~1 sec. I'm tossing some random time, so don't think hard on it. This can potentially solve the Enrage problem with Bladestorm while giving multistrike AND haste meaning.

The other one was make Enrage some kind of mechanic we have more control over, like monk's beer. However, this would mean changing how Fury plays right now. I though something in the lines of making some Fury's skills stacking a buff, that we would use to proc Enrage. The more stacks, more the time, to an extent.

I like part of Fury's mechanic right now, but it's only optimal with high-end gear.

[Secondwind]

Idea for fury I was pushing over on the official forums:

Fury gains a stacking buff (we'll call it Bloodrage), the stacks last 2 minutes, clear at the start of combat, and stacks up to 20 (much like Monk's TEB). You gain 1 stack for every X rage gained (somewhere between 20 and 30 would probably be best). Fury gains a new button that lets you consume 5 stacks to become Enraged. If you have more than 5 stacks available, you also gain a buff to either Haste or Multistrike (or both) that consumes 1 stack of Bloodrage per second. Hitting the button again cancels the buff to conserve stacks.


So at low crit levels this serves as a stopgap to help fill in holes in Fury's rotation and protect against RNG. At higher crit levels it acts as a cooldown to make you attack more, feeling more furious. Ideally the buff and the enrage would be separate buttons, but with them trying to reduce button bloat I don't see that being feasible. But the core idea of giving fury some RNG protection in a way that provides some interesting resource management I think is a good one.

[Artunias]

I got some ideas for Fury today. Nothing special, and I don't claim they will be the solution, but something we can discuss, as we are happy making poems right now.

First one is to solve the Enrage being too short for some mechanics (read Bladestorm) and give other secundary some meaning: make white hits multistrikes increase Enrage by 0.5~1 sec. I'm tossing some random time, so don't think hard on it. This can potentially solve the Enrage problem with Bladestorm while giving multistrike AND haste meaning.

The other one was make Enrage some kind of mechanic we have more control over, like monk's beer. However, this would mean changing how Fury plays right now. I though something in the lines of making some Fury's skills stacking a buff, that we would use to proc Enrage. The more stacks, more the time, to an extent.

I like part of Fury's mechanic right now, but it's only optimal with high-end gear.

This is a pretty interesting idea. I feel like bloodthirst should also have say a 50% chance to proc a raging blow charge on non crits to smooth out the rotation.
It might also be interesting if every time you enraged it added 6 seconds to your buff instead of just resetting it to 6 seconds.
It leaves crit as still an integral part of the spec, but not the end all be all of the spec.

In my mind I see an option for both specs that I think would work, and make the playstyle fun and enjoyable at all gear levels.

For fury:

1. I like the multistrike idea, or enrage being additive as opposed to refreshed. But basically enrage should be more manageable.
2. Give non crit bloodthirsts a chance to proc raging blow, I don't think making it a guaranteed proc all the time is the way to go

For arms:

1. Bring back overpower, let it have a chance to proc off of slam hits
2. Overpower - scale with mastery, hit a little harder than slam, generate 10 rage, can proc enrage, 1 sec gcd, unavoidable, still procs off dodges
3. Sudden death, either let it scale with mastery and let mortal strike also proc it. Or just give it a flat buff and let mortal strike proc it. I think the mastery is more interesting.

[Lightup]

NO FLAT OUT NO!!! no more stacking no more proc bases gameplay no more dependents on crit new suggestion:

new fury talent or baseline idc

your raging blow now usable all the time but the damage outside enrage scale down by 20%
your wild stike get replaced by new/improved heroic strike heroic strike now deal 180% dmg and have 30% chance to enrage you
your meat cleaver being replace by enrage ON USE 30sec cooldown also whirlwind does 50% more dmg
your whirlwind cost 70 rage but increase all dmg done by 10% during enrage whirlwind is free

btw for the love of god redesign fury raging blow sound for a bone crack or a chop

also forgot new cs glyph your mastery: unshackled fury decrease by 6% but cs is now passive and baypass 50%

(keep in mind that number can be changed refer to the basic idea)

[Eranthe]

NO FLAT OUT NO!!! no more stacking no more proc bases gameplay no more dependents on crit new suggestion:

new fury talent or baseline idc

your raging blow now usable all the time but the damage outside enrage scale down by 20%
your wild stike get replaced by new/improved heroic strike heroic strike now deal 180% dmg and have 30% chance to enrage you
your meat cleaver being replace by enrage ON USE 30sec cooldown
your whirlwind cost 70 rage but increase your dmg by 10% during enrage whirlwind is free

btw for the love of god redesign fury raging blow sound for a bone crack or a chop

the bolded parts, i like the general idea with a few tweaks, the other stuff, i dunno. i wouldn't want to give up meat cleaver unless they put some other (hopefully more fluid) aoe in instead of it.

[Artunias]

the bolded parts, i like the general idea with a few tweaks, the other stuff, i dunno. i wouldn't want to give up meat cleaver unless they put some other (hopefully more fluid) aoe in instead of it.

I dunno, I feel like the proc based is currently what makes fury exciting. It just needs a little less rng/crit dependency. But those suggestions basically remove any kind of reactionary gameplay and make it a baseline predictable boring rotation I would feel. There are plenty of classes that offer that if you want that playstyle, I've always enjoyed warrior because it's not.

But I completely agree that style has frustrations, but I still think I'd prefer it over a totally predictable style of play.

[Cyclonus-WOW]

This is how some of us feel about doing everything within a window:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBnGe9HDGBI#t=198

[Lightup]

I dunno, I feel like the proc based is currently what makes fury exciting. It just needs a little less rng/crit dependency. But those suggestions basically remove any kind of reactionary gameplay and make it a baseline predictable boring rotation I would feel. There are plenty of classes that offer that if you want that playstyle, I've always enjoyed warrior because it's not.

But I completely agree that style has frustrations, but I still think I'd prefer it over a totally predictable style of play.

well let me blow your mind difficult not alweys equal fun BABOOM
its boring if you don't have a choice every once in a while but overall you don't what to track everything all the time calculate your gcd, procs stacks you wanna enjoy the encounter setup your own gameplay

[Juni]

well let me blow your mind difficult not alweys equal fun BABOOM
its boring if you don't have a choice every once in a while but overall you don't what to track everything all the time calculate your gcd, procs stacks you wanna enjoy the encounter setup your own gameplay

What in the world are u talking about.

[Deleted]

Or you could make it simple, bt always give 1 rb, if bt crits tho you get mastery up and maybe a 2nd rb. Problem solved.

[Artunias]

Or you could make it simple, bt always give 1 rb, if bt crits tho you get mastery up and maybe a 2nd rb. Problem solved.

If they did that they would definitely have to nerf raging blow damage when not enraged by 20-30%, and that might be fine.

[Deleted]

Number tuning is the least of the problem, that comes at the end. But being able to play fury without getting gimped by low crit isn't even tho the new bt helps. Is that hey you get to play fury properly with rb, but when your bt crits you get the extra benefit/awesomeness. Gets the whole "if i don't bt-crit i am screwed" away.

[Juni]

Dragon Roar’s damage is no longer reduced when hitting more than 1 target.

Omg yes. Finally!

[Artunias]

Omg yes. Finally!

I'm a fan of that change. I just hope they don't gut the damage due to PvP and make it bad because of that.

[Secondwind]

Warriors also get a new buff: Inspiring Presence (replaces the physical vulnerability debuff) - Increases versatility of all party or raid members by 3%

Also Victory Rush and Impending Victory buffed to 25% max health (up from 15%). IV confirmed as only worthwhile healing tier talent for WoD.

[meteo]

Anyone else laughing about heroic throw being called a "burst damage cooldown"?

[Deleted]

took them 2 years to fix it...

[Juni]

Regardless of the time it took to fix it: It's an aaaawesome (and much needed) change.

Impending victory might be better, personally I think I'd still stick with ER just because it's off gcd and the healing is still more than good.