6.0 Warrior changes discussion thread

[Drahkais]

I would rather not play Fury in WoD right now. I knew Arms damage was going to come down, but when I hear somebody at Blizzard say it the first thing that I think is they are going to bring it down too much. Such an unpleasant waiting game, waiting for them to say anything interesting about Warrior.

[Secondwind]

So twitter flurry about stances.

Celestalon says it's a point we have to agree to disagree on. It is not intended to help raiders, but instead be a benefit to new players and returning veterans. Wildstrike and Slam are being added to the list of abilities that will return you to Battle Stance in an upcoming build, so the idea is that players get shifted between stances almost automatically by performing their rotation. More advanced players will likely use a macro to swap back to battle stance earlier.

[CollisionTD]

The problem with arms, summed up in 12 lines of text:

(8:12:26 PM) Frosted2: How should an arms warrior be playing atm?
(8:13:49 PM) Collision: mortal strike on cooldown, cs on cooldown
(8:13:56 PM) Collision: whirlwind when rage is over 60
(8:14:07 PM) Collision: one melee swing before cs, don't use ww
(8:14:17 PM) Collision: use sudden death procs as they come up
(8:15:01 PM) Collision: keep up rend, but honestly you can nearly ignore it
(8:15:10 PM) Collision: it's such a minor dps, it's like rupture for rogues
(8:16:40 PM) Frosted2: kk
(8:20:48 PM) Frosted2: talents matter?
(8:21:20 PM) Collision: ravager storm bolt bloodbath sudden death
(8:32:55 PM) Frosted2: Our warrior did that in one pull
(8:33:01 PM) Frosted2: and went from bottom to #1

I was able to coach a warrior through an intermediary mage, and after 1 attempt the guy improved that much. That's not a sign of brilliant coaching, that's a sign of holy fucksticks this spec is easy.

[Secondwind]

Through an intermediary mage with 5 lines of text no less.

[Celarent]

That's not a sign of brilliant coaching

All I can suggest is for the guys Nervig gives the time of day to keep up a drumbeat: yes, players will go in your direction but refine it at least a bit. For the talk about "iterating," Arms has received one notable set of changes since 18443, which was the only other notable change since alpha began.

[Jalopy]

You sound like third-movie Batman. But that's actually pretty cool.

You don't owe these people anymore, you've given them everything.
Collision/Batman: Not everything, not yet.

- - - Updated - - -

I was able to coach a warrior through an intermediary mage, and after 1 attempt the guy improved that much. That's not a sign of brilliant coaching, that's a sign of holy fucksticks this spec is easy.

Yea well not everyone can be as great as me.

[Secondwind]

Now that I've thought about it some more, I have a much bigger question.


What on earth was that guy doing that he was bottom on dps before he talked to you? Try to find that out. Because if it's possible that someone was messing up the rotation that badly that they were dead last before being told the right priority, maybe they really do need to keep dumbing these rotations down to nothing to let these idiots maintain even passable dps.

[Jalopy]

Now that I've thought about it some more, I have a much bigger question.


What on earth was that guy doing that he was bottom on dps before he talked to you? Try to find that out. Because if it's possible that someone was messing up the rotation that badly that they were dead last before being told the right priority, maybe they really do need to keep dumbing these rotations down to nothing to let these idiots maintain even passable dps.

Remember, these are the people who we need to cater to by making abilities dance automatically!

[Greil]

Remember, these are the people who we need to cater to by making abilities dance automatically!

This annoys me to no end... AND JUST WAIT the expac after wod will bring back all the complexity we currently have.

[Jalopy]

This annoys me to no end... AND JUST WAIT the expac after wod will bring back all the complexity we currently have.

And people (probably) wonder why I'm so bitter towards idiots.

[Kirbynator]

wait, bloodbath shouldnt work with ravager?

Does ravager fit into "melee special attack" ?

[Darkfriend]

wait, bloodbath shouldnt work with ravager?

Does ravager fit into "melee special attack" ?

Not really. It's not a targeted attack like MS or BT.

That being said, HL applies BB so who knows. Balance?

[Trubo]

I'm in a better position than some I guess; my Warrior has always been my alt with respect to my Druid. The only reasons I started playing him seriously in SoO were because after Thok we somehow had too many healers, all the other healers knew dick all for damage dealing roles and while my characters were similarly geared Fury offered more utility and gear distribution than Feral.

Collision's Arms coaching story was fun to read though.

[Secondwind]

Not really. It's not a targeted attack like MS or BT.

That being said, HL applies BB so who knows. Balance?

I think they key is "melee special attack"

Ravager is usable at a range. It is likely classified as a ranged attack, thus disqualifying it from Bloodbath.

Has anyone tried testing SB with Bloodbath since SB is no longer on the same tier? It might suffer from a similar lack of interaction.

[Darkfriend]

I think they key is "melee special attack"

Ravager is usable at a range. It is likely classified as a ranged attack, thus disqualifying it from Bloodbath.

Has anyone tried testing SB with Bloodbath since SB is no longer on the same tier? It might suffer from a similar lack of interaction.

But HL isn't melee.

[Requiel]

I think they key is "melee special attack"

Ravager is usable at a range. It is likely classified as a ranged attack, thus disqualifying it from Bloodbath.

Has anyone tried testing SB with Bloodbath since SB is no longer on the same tier? It might suffer from a similar lack of interaction.

Stormbolt, heroic throw, leap all apply bloodbath, so ravager must be a bug

edit: shattering throw doesn't apply deep wounds, so who knows?

[Reclipse]

Hiya,

Trying to understand both the optimal Fury and Arms rotations for WoD. Looked through the thread as far as I could and searched around various forums, but little hard to find relevant information. This seemed like the best place but hard to sift through all 190 pages

Have looked at the profiles for 6.0 in simcraft so trying to confirm what is right.

Arms:
Talents:
Tier 45: Sudden Death?
Tier 60: Storm Bolt?
Tier 90: Bloodbath?
Tier 100: Ravager?

Rotation
1. Keep Rend up
2. Mortal Strike on CD/CS on CD
3. Ravager (line up with CS?)
4. Storm Bolt (line up with CS)
5. Sudden death procs used as we get them
6. Whirlwind > 60 rage

Bloodbath every minute lined up with CD's/CS windows where possible, HL with CS windows.

Seems simple really, but main questions here are when to use Ravager/Storm Bolt's as simcraft them listed as if=talent.ravager.enabled&cooldown.colossus_smash.remains<5, but to use Storm Bolt if=talent.storm_bolt.enabled&cooldown.colossus_smash.remains>4.

Unsure how they differ here and what it means for when to use these? Should they both be within CS, or not?


Fury:
Little less sure about the choices for Fury in WoD. Is there a big difference between TG/SMF? Seems TG pulling ahead ATM.
Talents:
Tier 45: Unquenchable Thirst or Furious Strikes?
Tier 60: Storm Bolt
Tier 90: Bloodbath
Tier 100: Ravager?

Rotation
1. Bloodthirst/CS on CD?
2. Ravager (again, lined up with CS?)
3. Storm Bolt in CS
4. Dragon Roar (before/after CS depending on procs, inside Bloodbath)
5. Wild Strike with Bloodsurge
6. Raging Blow
7. Wild Strike
8. Bloodthirst (if Unquenchable Thirst)

I guess the main questions I have for Fury come from Unquenchable Thirst/Furious Strikes and CS window priorities...
- Do we bother holding Raging Blow procs for CS windows? Or just use them as we get them and use WS/Storm Bolt inside of CS?
- Under the right circumstances, what the ideal CS window would look like, ie, CS > SB > BT > RB > WS WS WS?

Sorry for the long post - just having hard time getting a good summarized version of this information and done all I can with looking at simcraft profiles. Thanks!

[Roshar]

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...92421695995904

Insert token "what's he referring to" comment here.

So the glaring problem with Arms is its damage and not how it plays? Gotcha.

[Burynerds]

Can someone explain the stance dance argument to me on twitter? I tried to follow it through and I just saw Celestalon keep saying that other players will be helped with the new stance system.

My questions are:

Who are the players this is helping?

If the goal is to get pvpers out of dstance for damage why are the actual damage skills not requiring battle stance? Anyone who thinks im switching from d to battle to get that last whirlwind is crazy.

If the goal is action bar clutter is the intent really for warriors to be played with 2 bars? My understanding is we are at ~25 skills. That means with dstance and no macros or items I can play my warrior with one extra bar and one skill dropped. For a new player is that not already the LOWEST number of skills in the entire game?

If I am expected to switch stances for helping the raid why are other classes not?

What value do I gain as arms with a second action bar for dstance? I only have ~25 skills as it is and they are going to auto swap so I am going to mirror the skills anyway unless there is a reason not to?

What kind of stances bonuses are we expecting?



Bottom line is I understood stance bars in vanilla and BC, we had most of the prot skills we could switch and use those things and having them on our primary bar wasn't helpful. After that it got murky until they just dumped it and we got the stance system we have today. I just don't understand the great benefit they are heralding with these changes. I am a pretty empathetic guy, but I truly don't see the value a new player will get out of this stance dance stuff.

[Deleted]

They didn't like the idea of people sitting in Defensive Stance in PvP, however they ignored the fact we are squishy as fuck without it and instead of doing anything logical like a damage reduction on abilities... They added stance requirements again.
It's only a matter of time before we hear "With the new server we've reduced the lag when switching weapons! Your Spell Reflect ability now requires a shield!"

I know Arms is getting nerfed, that's fine... But even if it was twice as strong as it is now it would only be played out of necessity. Barely anyone is actually enjoying the horrible abomination of a spec it's become. They need to do something about that.