6.0 Warrior changes discussion thread

[Neehs]

RNG resource system sounds terrible.

Our current rage gen is beta is rather RNG already, the point being to play around our rage gen and react to it.
Instead of just having 20 rage every AA, every time. That's just a poor mans energy.

As it stand now, a crit streak will either cap you, delay non rage gcd's, or have you press WW one time extra, it's not exactly very engaging.

[Archimtiros]

Anyone knows what happened to Landsoul? He is not really posting indepth stuff since..a long time.

Real life.

He still contributes, but much more behind the scene, and doesn't have the time to devote to forums, group theorycrafting and the like. It is the natural flow of things.

[Secondwind]

So um, did a tuning pass hit when I wasn't paying attention?

Last time I checked, Mortal Strike was hitting for 400% weapon damage, increased by 20% from leveling perk to 480%.

Right now WoD Wowhead is displaying it as 360% WD (and of course the perk no longer exists).

I thought to check because my CSes seemed to be hitting harder than my MSes (unless the MS was ignoring armor), and it seems that is the case, with CS hitting for 400% WD.


Just curious because I don't remember seeing MS get nerfed in the datamining and that sort of thing doesn't show up in patch notes.

Edit: Apparently MS has been at 300% for some time, because the build where the perks got rolled in increased MS from 300% to 360%. I must have just missed it. Wow.

Also Execute seems to be sitting at 120+20.833 per rage, cap at 745% WD. Which makes the 625% WD sudden deaths all the more baffling. I'm leaning towards it being a bug now, because the 625% WD it seems to be hitting for with SD seems to be exactly the same amount of damage that gets added from a full rage expenditure, without any base damage.

Edit: Also confirmed the 625% WD number by hitting a dummy with a low damage spread weapon. Execute is hitting exactly 73.6% harder than MS 360 * 1.736 = 624.96 = 625% without any of the funkier math we were trying to work with earlier.

[CollisionTD]

So um, did a tuning pass hit when I wasn't paying attention?

Last time I checked, Mortal Strike was hitting for 400% weapon damage, increased by 20% from leveling perk to 480%.

Right now WoD Wowhead is displaying it as 360% WD (and of course the perk no longer exists).

I thought to check because my CSes seemed to be hitting harder than my MSes (unless the MS was ignoring armor), and it seems that is the case, with CS hitting for 400% WD.


Just curious because I don't remember seeing MS get nerfed in the datamining and that sort of thing doesn't show up in patch notes.

Edit: Apparently MS has been at 300% for some time, because the build where the perks got rolled in increased MS from 300% to 360%. I must have just missed it. Wow.

Also Execute seems to be sitting at 120+20.833 per rage, cap at 745% WD. Which makes the 625% WD sudden deaths all the more baffling. I'm leaning towards it being a bug now, because the 625% WD it seems to be hitting for with SD seems to be exactly the same amount of damage that gets added from a full rage expenditure, without any base damage.

Edit: Also confirmed the 625% WD number by hitting a dummy with a low damage spread weapon. Execute is hitting exactly 73.6% harder than MS 360 * 1.736 = 624.96 = 625% without any of the funkier math we were trying to work with earlier.

Oh, I thought I posted this already but apparently I never did.



It's definitely a bug, sudden death is allowing execute to be usable, but it's allowing the wrong execute. There are 2 executes under arms, 1 that does the default 120% weapon damage, and then a 2nd spell that deals with the 625% added weapon damage based on rage. Due to execute being free with sudden death, this execute is dealing full damage all the time.

[Secondwind]

It's definitely a bug, sudden death is allowing execute to be usable, but it's allowing the wrong execute. There are 2 executes under arms, 1 that does the default 120% weapon damage, and then a 2nd spell that deals with the 625% added weapon damage based on rage. Due to execute being free with sudden death, this execute is dealing full damage all the time.

Fun.

I was thinking the 625% weapon damage was a decent medium between the 480% MS was hitting and the 1000%+ Execute was hitting, but both apparently got nerfed between whenever I last checked actual values and now, so that's now a 625% execute with a 360% MS... which is just silly out of line. Meanwhile actual execute tops out only a little bit harder.

I still say that a base unaugmented execute is too weak to be worth a damn though. Once they fix this and execute goes to 120% weapon damage, it's literally worse than a no-stack Slam. They need to hit that middle ground, and push SD somewhere around 350-400% weapon damage. A 10-15 bonus rage execute would be perfect. But then again based on that spell data, an iteration that does that would probably be a pain in the ass to implement.

[Archimtiros]

They worked themselves into a corner yet again by designing an ability, then redesigning the ability it was based off of (just like they did with Ignite Weapon and Heroic Strike).

The only way they'll sort it out with Sudden Death is if they create a funky middle ground.

[Celarent]

Funky middle ground is probably a 25% or so proc chance for Arms; at least it'd be another way to shut us up about dead GCDs. But it's Blizzard, so for all we know next build we'll have abilities dealing nature damage.

[Secondwind]

Funky middle ground is probably a 25% or so proc chance for Arms; at least it'd be another way to shut us up about dead GCDs. But it's Blizzard, so for all we know next build we'll have abilities dealing nature damage.

Ignite Weapon has been replaced by Nature's Edge, strike with your weapon for 50% weapon damage as Nature damage, and cause vines to grow on the target, snaring them. Costs 30 rage.


And honestly, no. Even if they made it 100% proc chance, I just can't see an ability hitting at 120% weapon damage actually being a useful part of the rotation.

..okay maybe with a 100% proc rate, just because then it makes a pretty decent free filler. You'd still probably only use it a few times a minute though.

[Jalopy]

Am I the only one who really hates rage-scaling executes?

[Drahkais]

No /10char

[Secondwind]

Am I the only one who really hates rage-scaling executes?

I think it's kind of a useless mechanic, because as long as a max rage execute is more efficient than a min rage execute (which it is currently), the mechanic is useless, we'll just bank rage until we have at least 40, and never use a sub-par execute.

If they made the efficiency the same throughout (say bumping it back to 180% + 18 per rage, capped at +540%) I wouldn't mind it because it would let us get away with spamming execute much more often without any lost dps.

[Archimtiros]

I think it's kind of a useless mechanic, because as long as a max rage execute is more efficient than a min rage execute (which it is currently), the mechanic is useless, we'll just bank rage until we have at least 40, and never use a sub-par execute.

If they made the efficiency the same throughout (say bumping it back to 180% + 18 per rage, capped at +540%) I wouldn't mind it because it would let us get away with spamming execute much more often without any lost dps.

Same reason the slam mechanic they have is a crappy mechanic. There is no management to it, and we are going to end up using it in some odd fashion like cancelauras/waiting on proc to bank rage.

[Deleted]

Seriously debating an alternate class to main for WoD. Just following Arch and Collision on Twitter and seeing their good, persistant feedback is all negativity towards how Fury and Arms are heading, makes we want to abandon the class completely and focus on maybe Enh shaman or DK. Not even sure anymore. Losing faith!

[Jalopy]

Friend in my guild says beta patch is on Wed/Thurs (then again I don't see how this is accurate, they've been pretty consistent on patches mon night -> testing Tuesday).

I expect nothing but arbitrary fundamental changes and then nerfs to arms.

- - - Updated - - -

Just saw that tweet of Celestalon straight up denying that mastery is almost completely worthless in cleave/AOE scenarios.

If you can be that misinformed and still have that job maybe I should apply and be a figurehead for Archi and Collision.

[Deleted]

Just saw that tweet of Celestalon straight up denying that mastery is almost completely worthless in cleave/AOE scenarios.

It's not like it's a secret that he doesn't know how warriors work, I guess he just likes to prove that over and over again

[Deleted]

At least it isnt all doom and gloom, with Arms/Fury looking so pants I can happily use both talents specs on protection, one for tanking and one for dps as glad. No worry about Tank vs DPS talents that way!

How bad is it that both Arms and Fury are looking so unattractive that I am happy to spec Prot and Glad as separate specs? defeating half the reason Gladiator exists in the first place!?

How bad is it that the DPS spec MacGyvered from a tank rotation is more fun and engaging than both of the pure ones available to a class?

[Deleted]

How bad is it that the DPS spec MacGyvered from a tank rotation is more fun and engaging than both of the pure ones available to a class?

I think it was mentioned before in a moment of tinfoil-hattery, but someone thought that Fury was changed so much because Gladiator plays exactly the same, and it's more likely that people will play it if it's already recognised as a fun playstyle. Imagine people trying to play Gladiator if it played like Fury does on Beta?

[Stoic]

You'll also notice on Twitter that Celestalon never answers tweets from prominent warriors in the community. Invariably the vast majority of tweet responses are to people I've never heard of (which is ok as long as someone gets an answer). I'm not sure if he's scared that if he had to respond to someone like Collision he'd actually have to defend their current trajectory with something other than dismissive escapes without adressing the facts being presented to him, or if he's aware that as soon as he says something concrete that it'll show without a shadow of a doubt that he knows absolutely nothing about Warriors.

I just wished they had picked another class to mess with this time round...Warriors didn't warrant a overhaul...for the worse. Talk about Hero to zero.

Looking like I called it:

GARRISONS SEEM COOL
ASHRAN LOOKS FUN
WARRIORS WON'T GET FIXED
UNTIL PATCH 6.1
#WARCRAFT

[87Octane]

I think it was mentioned before in a moment of tinfoil-hattery, but someone thought that Fury was changed so much because Gladiator plays exactly the same, and it's more likely that people will play it if it's already recognised as a fun playstyle. Imagine people trying to play Gladiator if it played like Fury does on Beta?

I think that somewhat makes sense, it was "easier" to throw Fury in the trash than it was to completely redesign the Prot abilities for Gladiator, which would have affected tanking. They would rather destroy one DPS spec over upsetting a tank spec. I think most people here would vote to scrap Glad if it meant bringing back Live Fury. I would have rather Glad be a 4th spec with mostly unique moves and just leave the other 3 specs alone. At this point, with all of the failed tweaks - it would have been easier lol. I think they underestimated the difficulty of changing Arms and Fury. They had a chance to do "something new" with Gladiator, they could have tried all the dumb shit they wanted to, made it too easy, made it clunky - whatever, and left Fury/Arms alone. There would be no backlash because Glad is new, no right to complain. Instead it seems like they made that the "favorite" and decided to change everything else around it. If anything it doesn't amount to "blizzard hates warriors", it's "blizzard loves prot warriors so much - screw the other specs".

sidenote: I also can swallow the "well as you get haste (haste matters) these slow rotations (a lot of classes) will come alive", but what happens to Fury with even more Bloodthirsts and Bloodsurges? Will gear just simply force you out of UnqT?

[Stoic]

I think they underestimated the difficulty of changing Arms and Fury.

That implies they knew how those specs worked in the first place.

Anyone ever wonder what class Celestalon plays to warrant him thinking that these new changes are fun and/or engaging? He clearly doesn't play Warrior.