Most gear grindy expansion yet

[Deleted]

Replacing JP/VP gear with bonus rolls is the most idiotic thing Blizzard can possibly do. Add that to the fact that reforging is gone only makes this expansion the most gear grindy yet.

With the pre 5.4 gear system - This 522 item cost 1250 valor, if I get terrible luck with loot drops this week there is a 100% guarantee that I will get an upgrade within 2 weeks.

Post 5.4 gear system - Even though they gave me an increased chance to get loot every time a bonus roll fails, there is no guarantee I will even get an upgrade this month. Hell I probably could go 2 months without getting a damn thing.

In WoD they say they'll put in a system that makes it so you are "less likely" to get the same item twice. I'll give you 3 reason why this is a terrible change.

1. In WoD raids, every piece of gear will have random secondary stats. So let's say Boss 1 drops cloth gloves and you get crit/haste gloves but you want mastery/haste gloves, will the bonus roll system give you a less likely chance to get those same gloves because you already got them before? Even if the randomized secondary stats you got on the first pair were shit for your spec? What if you don't want the same gloves? 2 sides of this system and only 1 of them will be put in.

2. Fixing RNG with more RNG is never a good solution.

3. We can still (and some people will) go weeks and possibly even months without a upgrade as with the VP gear system, we *knew* we were getting an upgrade within 2-3 weeks.

Only thing WoD is doing is making the gear grind more grindy.

[MerinPally]

I have no idea what game you were playing that meant that Valor Points meant you could buy a better piece of gear every 2 weeks but it certainly wasn't Mists of Pandaria. There were only like 2-3 items for your spec and even then at least 1 of them was absolute rubbish which was poorly itemized so you'd never buy, and another one had a better item from LFR. Your 3 points:

1) Your first explanation is a question in itself. The difference between Mastery/haste item and a Mastery/crit item in terms of dps is going to be minimal, as they're making it so you get a similar benefit from all. So if you're going to be that picky then you deserve to have to work for it no? Warriors won't look at Haste any more in disgust.

2) So you want them to fix RNG with guaranteed loot so that you can plan out your gearing and be done in a couple of weeks? And then cry about having nothing to aim for? You know this is an mmo right, the idea of the game is working to get character improvements.

3) Same as point 1 just phrased in a more passive aggressive manner.

[Soulwind]

If you want your -absolute perfect- BiS set, yes. But Blizzard won't balance raids around everyone having upgraded, socketed items with the ideal secondary and tertiary stats. Which means these upgrades will have a bigger effect than before. They'll be a bonus, not a requirement.

[Mosotti]

I couldn't agree more. Obviously replacing something palpable with that piece of shit RNG (improved or not) will result in much pain for anyone than cares about drops...

[Bane Falcon]

I believe the system of "not getting the same item twice" isn't to address secondary stats on a piece of gear, but to grant you a different piece of gear altogether. Therefore, if boss 2 of the raid tier drops Crit/Haste gloves, a dagger, and a trinket, but boss 5 drops Crit/Mastery gloves, a neck, and a tier leg token, rolling your coin on the 5th boss instead of the second would get you better results, especially if you already have the tier piece from alternative means like whatever world boss kind of thing. I don't believe they're counting tertiary stats (leech, cleave, movement speed, etc) in there, and yes, some people will still go weeks without seeing anything that they coin on. A coin system, or any other system, never means guaranteed loot for you specifically. It just allows another means for a raid group to progress and get needed items, while taking away some of the RNG associated with just eyeing what each boss drops on its own.

[ThePants999]

Secondary stats are not going to be randomized. Tertiary ones are.

[Dnusha]

I'm happy they are removing it. (valor)

Random stats on teh gear - one of the worst additions imo.
oh ok

[Lesane]

Replacing JP/VP gear with bonus rolls is the most idiotic thing Blizzard can possibly do. Add that to the fact that reforging is gone only makes this expansion the most gear grindy yet.

With the pre 5.4 gear system - This 522 item cost 1250 valor, if I get terrible luck with loot drops this week there is a 100% guarantee that I will get an upgrade within 2 weeks.

Post 5.4 gear system - Even though they gave me an increased chance to get loot every time a bonus roll fails, there is no guarantee I will even get an upgrade this month. Hell I probably could go 2 months without getting a damn thing.

In WoD they say they'll put in a system that makes it so you are "less likely" to get the same item twice. I'll give you 3 reason why this is a terrible change.

1. In WoD raids, every piece of gear will have random secondary stats. So let's say Boss 1 drops cloth gloves and you get crit/haste gloves but you want mastery/haste gloves, will the bonus roll system give you a less likely chance to get those same gloves because you already got them before? Even if the randomized secondary stats you got on the first pair were shit for your spec? What if you don't want the same gloves? 2 sides of this system and only 1 of them will be put in.

2. Fixing RNG with more RNG is never a good solution.

3. We can still (and some people will) go weeks and possibly even months without a upgrade as with the VP gear system, we *knew* we were getting an upgrade within 2-3 weeks.

Only thing WoD is doing is making the gear grind more grindy.

You have no idea what you're talking about. First of all, secondary stats aren't going to be random. Secondly, they are not fixing RNG with RNG. If you already got item A and B from the boss with bonus rolls, you will get item C when you get an item through a bonus roll. That's better than today. Thirdly, if anything removing jp/valor makes the game LESS grindy. Currently you have to log in and cap valor every week just to upgrade your gear or to buy items. And lastly, even if you don't get an upgrade through VP anymore that doesn't have an implications for making the game grindier. You were going to raid that week anyway, whether you had a valor item or not.

[Tradu]

No idea where you got the idea that secondaries will be random from. Items will still have set stats, so for example boss 1 drops primary/stamina/crit/haste gloves and boss 8 drops primary/stamina/mastery/multistrike gloves. We might still see the occasional item with random secondary stats(like bracers in ToT, shoulders in Firelands etc), but it won't be the norm.

1) Your first explanation is a question in itself. The difference between Mastery/haste item and a Mastery/crit item in terms of dps is going to be minimal, as they're making it so you get a similar benefit from all. So if you're going to be that picky then you deserve to have to work for it no? Warriors won't look at Haste any more in disgust.

That's something they've been trying to accomplish for a very long time, not something new for WoD. And we can all see how well getting all secondaries to be equally good is working out so far.

[MrExcelion]

VP Upgrading itself is gone, and it goes well hand-in-hand with the more rng loot system

[Immitis]

VP Upgrading itself is gone, and it goes well hand-in-hand with the more rng loot system

upgrading is not gone

[sykke]

upgrading is not gone

Yes, upgrading is gone. Celestalon said it in the Finalboss.tv interview yesterday.

[Odobisean]

I believe they have said that raid gear will not have any randomized stats and only gear that you get from questing and zone events will have randomized stats.

[Senka]

I actually sympathize with his concerns about bonus roll. Valor as a system was intended to be bad luck protection. That was always its stated goal. It is easy to be very worried about the idea of bonus roll replacing that.

However, this is an expansion and anything can change. If they want it to fill the role Valor Points/Emblems/Badges had, they're going to have to considerably increase the effect of the bad luck streak protection that's currently in place. Banking more than 3 per week is also a likely change. If they change things like that, it's completely possible bonus roll can properly fill the role of Valor.

Of course, this is all assuming they WANT it to be equal to Valor Points today. It's also possible that they think Valor Points and their equivalents in the past have made getting gear too easy and indeed make gearing strange when those items sometimes end up better than raid gear or extremely close in effectiveness. Valor Point gear over the many years has been very valuable to players of all types.

[Deleted]

and we all know that to get those bonus rolls we will need to farm something else like we do charms of fortune now.

[Bosen]

MMOs are going to have some grindy parts.

[xebtria]

If you want your -absolute perfect- BiS set, yes. But Blizzard won't balance raids around everyone having upgraded, socketed items with the ideal secondary and tertiary stats. Which means these upgrades will have a bigger effect than before. They'll be a bonus, not a requirement.

the worse you and/or your guild are, the more of a requirement they will become.

remember all those sayings pre-SoO? "the cloak is not needed to raid SoO, it will make it significantly easier, but it is not needed!"
good luck finding a raiding guild at the moment when you don't have the cloak.

and just as the cloak is a must have nowadays for SoO, some tertiary stats will become a requirement in WoD.

[l33t]

Yes, upgrading is gone. Celestalon said it in the Finalboss.tv interview yesterday.

So nerfing a content every month or so by % is back? Since valor upgrading was the thing that replaced over time nerfs.

[Seezer]

Replacing JP/VP gear with bonus rolls is the most idiotic thing Blizzard can possibly do. Add that to the fact that reforging is gone only makes this expansion the most gear grindy yet.

With the pre 5.4 gear system - This 522 item cost 1250 valor, if I get terrible luck with loot drops this week there is a 100% guarantee that I will get an upgrade within 2 weeks.

Post 5.4 gear system - Even though they gave me an increased chance to get loot every time a bonus roll fails, there is no guarantee I will even get an upgrade this month. Hell I probably could go 2 months without getting a damn thing.

In WoD they say they'll put in a system that makes it so you are "less likely" to get the same item twice. I'll give you 3 reason why this is a terrible change.

1. In WoD raids, every piece of gear will have random secondary stats. So let's say Boss 1 drops cloth gloves and you get crit/haste gloves but you want mastery/haste gloves, will the bonus roll system give you a less likely chance to get those same gloves because you already got them before? Even if the randomized secondary stats you got on the first pair were shit for your spec? What if you don't want the same gloves? 2 sides of this system and only 1 of them will be put in.

2. Fixing RNG with more RNG is never a good solution.

3. We can still (and some people will) go weeks and possibly even months without a upgrade as with the VP gear system, we *knew* we were getting an upgrade within 2-3 weeks.

Only thing WoD is doing is making the gear grind more grindy.

Reforging going away doesn't make a gear grind. The game is going to be balanced around reforging going away. And stats are going to alot closer in value to where it'll be playstyle not performance. Blizz needs to take away the bonus roll though. That adds to the gear grind. YOu wanting the mastery/haste gloves over the crit/haste gloves will be you being anal in WoD, because both of those pieces will be pretty much equal value. There aren't going to be stats that are "Shit for your spec" in WoD. People want to come up with these doomsday scenarios, but that's just people wanting to feel like they have control.

- - - Updated - - -

So nerfing a content every month or so by % is back? Since valor upgrading was the thing that replaced over time nerfs.

Doubt it. That's why there are 4 difficulties in WoD. They are fitting everyone's playstyle. LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic.

[Deleted]

I have no idea what game you were playing that meant that Valor Points meant you could buy a better piece of gear every 2 weeks but it certainly wasn't Mists of Pandaria.

Perhaps you should work on you reading comprehension because I never said that.

-New tier starts, hmm I see there is a nice ring that cost 1250 valor, if I get terrible luck and get no loot this and next week, I could buy that ring and be happy because I didn't go weeks without an upgrade.

1) Your first explanation is a question in itself. The difference between Mastery/haste item and a Mastery/crit item in terms of dps is going to be minimal, as they're making it so you get a similar benefit from all. So if you're going to be that picky then you deserve to have to work for it no? Warriors won't look at Haste any more in disgust

Do you literally have any clue what you're talking about? That all depends on you spec actually. Example 1% crit/1% haste as a fire mage is a pretty big deal compared to 1%haste/1%mastery.

2) So you want them to fix RNG with guaranteed loot so that you can plan out your gearing and be done in a couple of weeks? And then cry about having nothing to aim for?

Umm HELLOOOO?? Where have you been the passed 3 expansions? It's ALWAYS been like this. There has always been some kind of Valor point vendor where you purchase gear with the same item level as what drops from the current normal tier. It's been this way SINCE Wrath and it has worked perfectly. It has saved people from RNG nightmares where they go through normals for weeks and not get a single upgrade. It is a protector from Bad RNG and to replace it with MORE Rng is IDIOTIC.