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  1. #1

    QoL hope for WoD

    Potions in stealth please!

    Not sure but I thought I read that pre-potting might not be allowed anymore so along those lines this might be irrelevant.

    But! Health potions in stealth while hiding from angry mobs trying to kill you would be nice. It's retarded that it breaks stealth. I even remember seeing a post back during ToT time where they said that it was quite possible to make that change to allow pre-potting in stealth.

    So please let me stealthily drink a potion from the shadows!

  2. #2
    Its so annoying that we can't... Most of the time, I don't have an issue, but on occasion I have forgotten and stealthed early and been on cd when the pull started, or had the boss get pulled early so not only did I use my prepot in combat but I wasn't in stealth because I was waiting to pot...

  3. #3
    High Overlord flimflop's Avatar
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    I approve of this hopeful change.

    That is all.

  4. #4
    Ehh, it's very easy to make a pre-pot macro, I don't think they need to change the game for it.

    /cast Virmen's Bite
    /cast Stealth

    Hit it once, problem solved.

    As for being able to use health potions without breaking stealth, I think it makes sense just from a realistic standpoint. If I can creep around in the wide open without anyone seeing me, why would drinking something sabotage that? From a game balance perspective, it could be seen as unfair that Rogues would have such an advantage, especially when it comes to duels.

  5. #5
    That macro solves nothing. Does that macro magically let me get my stealth off if the boss gets pulled before the end of the countdown? Nope.

    Just because you might have an issue hitting both of those without a macro, don't go and assume that is what everyone cares about.

  6. #6
    I don't think Blizz is going to change their mechanics because your guild can't use a pull timer properly.

    You also don't address the duel problem. There are potions that can be used in stealth without breaking you out, such as the Sneaking Potion. We could lobby to classify offensive potions such as Virmen's Bite under the same category as Sneaking Potion instead of asking for all potions to allow Rogues to remain in stealth. Being able to use a health potion while stealthed would unbalance the dueling playing field.

  7. #7
    High Overlord flimflop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krushinator View Post
    I don't think Blizz is going to change their mechanics because your guild can't use a pull timer properly.
    That's completely besides the point, is it not? I don't agree with any of your arguments personally. I wouldn't call not being able to pot in stealth a 'mechanic'. It's just a design flaw / something that was never changed since release, as it hasn't needed to be. It would be at the bottom of the changes triage.

    How does it imbalance duels? Any other class can pot pre-combat, so how does that differ for stealthies? On top of all that, do duels even matter to people anymore? And who on earth pots during a duel anyway? - You wouldn't in arena.

    Saying 'you need a macro' is just another macro slot which, if you play to a certain level, you will not be able to afford with the current macro slot cap.

    It doesn't NEED to be changed to benefit most, and it isn't required for a perfect prepot, but it's still QoL, and and annoyance to beginners of the class. Nothing is more off-putting than playing a game and feeling out of your depth, so why over-complicate the opener any more than necessary?
    Last edited by flimflop; 2014-04-23 at 11:12 PM.

  8. #8
    Offtopic a bit: But if you use health pots or dps pots in a duel, you are the worst type of person and should be ashamed

  9. #9
    They should just remove pre-potting tbh, it's a retarded mechanic.

  10. #10
    They said they considered removing pre-potting, but decided to keep it in, since if it were removed, dps would just pot once at the start of the fight anyway (except on fights with specific later burst requirements.)
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Krushinator View Post
    I don't think Blizz is going to change their mechanics because your guild can't use a pull timer properly.

    You also don't address the duel problem. There are potions that can be used in stealth without breaking you out, such as the Sneaking Potion. We could lobby to classify offensive potions such as Virmen's Bite under the same category as Sneaking Potion instead of asking for all potions to allow Rogues to remain in stealth. Being able to use a health potion while stealthed would unbalance the dueling playing field.
    Unbalance 1v1? You're clearly new to wow if you think blizzard has ever cared about 1v1 balance... dueling is irrelevant to everything but casual fun. They took rewards away from 2v2 specifically because 2v2 was too hard to balance, and you think they make design decisions around 1v1 casual duels? Laughable.

    If you're telling me your guild has never once ever pulled a single boss early, you're either full of shit or you have pretty much no raid experience at all. Based on your concern about dueling... probably the latter...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    They said they considered removing pre-potting, but decided to keep it in, since if it were removed, dps would just pot once at the start of the fight anyway (except on fights with specific later burst requirements.)
    So what's the argument for keeping in a clunky mechanic like pre-potting other than making everyone pop 2 pots in a fight so alchemists get to sell more of them? If that's the argument, then they can easily double the mats on pots. It would be much better if you get 1 pot per fight, which I imagine was the change they were going for when they made the CD not count down in combat. On some fights you'll pop it right when you have your CD's up at the start of a fight, but in many fights you can choose where you want the damage increase. Nowadays pre-potting is a no brainer, even on fights like Klaxxi where it takes ages for them to become active after the pull and half of your pot goes to waste, there's still no reason not to pre-pot other than to save gold.

  13. #13
    High Overlord flimflop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    So what's the argument for keeping in a clunky mechanic like pre-potting other than making everyone pop 2 pots in a fight
    That is the argument. If you have to choose between on-pull and any other time during a fight, it's 99% of the time going to be on-pull. Allowing a pre-pot offers more depth and complexity into when you use your combat pot... You would be surprised as to how many 'top rogues' pot incorrectly, seriously.

    This was discussed on celestalon' twitter quite extensively iirc, if you still don't see the reasoning.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by flimflop View Post
    You would be surprised as to how many 'top rogues' pot incorrectly, seriously.
    Surprise me.
    Last edited by Oggiva; 2014-04-24 at 04:47 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by flimflop View Post
    That is the argument. If you have to choose between on-pull and any other time during a fight, it's 99% of the time going to be on-pull. Allowing a pre-pot offers more depth and complexity into when you use your combat pot... You would be surprised as to how many 'top rogues' pot incorrectly, seriously.

    This was discussed on celestalon' twitter quite extensively iirc, if you still don't see the reasoning.
    This concept is also seen in the light of today where all your shit procs at the start of the fight, all raid DPS cooldowns are dropped right at the start, and your own CD's are up. Since they're getting rid of raid DPS CD's, and we haven't seen the trinkets yet but they probably want to do something about those too, the whole idea of needing to pop a pot at the start of the fight might be outdated. But thanks to their decision to keep pre-potting in, you're still gonna do it except you have to do it right before the boss is pulled. It's as stupid as the t6 SnD bug was imho. I don't know about second pot usage among top rogues but in my guild we usually just call it out when the RL thinks we need more damage in a certain part of a fight, which is how it should be to begin with if you ask me.

  16. #16
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    Unless there is a specific reason not to everyone is going to pop their cooldowns at the start of the fight, so that you can get the most possible uses from it. (Hopefully there is going to be alternatives to RPPM trinkets as well. I don't like those.) this means that you will also use heroism at the start, which in turn makes potion at the start most likely preferable. I think it's good that they keep prepoting.

  17. #17
    It's a little quality of life change -- which of course would be delightful.

    - Rift

  18. #18
    Being able to pre-pot in stealth means we can also position ourselves better for the pull. We could be right up on top of the boss for the pull and not have to do all that extra running that those other melee have to do. Ideally, stealth should only be broken when you deal / receive hostile damage or do something that requires a cast/channel (mount, bandage etc)
    Last edited by autopsy; 2014-04-25 at 02:01 AM.

  19. #19
    Balancing the game around dueling is a horrible idea. Truely awful. "Hey guys sorry we have to nerf your class and make you shit for all pvp and pve because you're a little strong in a duel".... ya.... no. On top of that if you're in stealth the other player is out of combat and if they want to scum bag pot during duels they can pot just as often as a rogue can just when they pot it won't ruin their most powerful abilities.

    Rogues need to start from stealth. That's the biggest defining area of the rogue is opening from stealth and specs like assassination or sub get so screwed not being able to start from stealth. Being forced to sometimes not start in stealth because some ass hole mage got a little trigger happy, a hunter accidentally right clicked the boss or some retard walked up too close an proximity aggroed the boss is such a huge annoyance yet one so easily fixed by letting rogues pot in stealth.

    But really the biggest reason to do this would be to make rogues lives easier. It won't change a damn thing. Rogue's aren't going to gain or lose dps by this it'll just make our opener more in line with the rest of the players.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggiva View Post
    Unless there is a specific reason not to everyone is going to pop their cooldowns at the start of the fight, so that you can get the most possible uses from it. (Hopefully there is going to be alternatives to RPPM trinkets as well. I don't like those.) this means that you will also use heroism at the start, which in turn makes potion at the start most likely preferable. I think it's good that they keep prepoting.
    There are enough fights where you don't BL during the start, at least during progression, in order to shorten certain phases. Nowadays on farm status it's not like this anymore maybe, but I know a lot of people saved bloodlust for when people are cleansed on Norushen and second phase of Sha of Pride, for Galakras you obviously wait as well, on Shamans people used to wait until they BL'd as well, on Nazgrim people either popped it during his berserker stance or the last percentages, on spoils people sometimes save it for the side that's the hardest, on Paragons people sometimes save it for breaking the amber, on Garrosh people usually save it for p3. It's actually fights like Galakras where pre-potting shows the clunkiness of the mechanic. There's no real reason to pre-pot because the trash packs are easy anyway and you spend a good time waiting between each pack, but at the same time there's no reason not to pre-pot because you don't lose anything other than gold.

    In the ones where you do BL and pop CD's at the start, sure you'll pot at the start, but there could and will be encounters where you'll want to save it for a certain phase. Obviously if they keep pre-pots in you get the best of both worlds, but I'm still against it because it's a clunky and convoluted mechanic. Especially as a rogue you notice how clunky it is due to not being able to pot in stealth. Not to mention bosses where you have RP eating up half of the pot duration, or meaningless waves coming in first. However, as long as there's no downside to it other than a gold cost it's going to remain mandatory, which is especially annoying if you have to carry dozens of pots because you're progressing on a new boss and most wipes will be at the start. Maybe it's just my personal idea that circumventing certain rules in a game due to an oversight should be fixed, even if they add gameplay. It reminds me of stuff like clipping animations in GunZ to fly around when that obviously wasn't intended, but they left it in because everyone started doing it and the whole game started to become based around it. If it adds gameplay it should either be reworked so that it's not convoluted, or it should be taken out. They fixed stuff like the t6 SnD bug, or hunters resummoning a bunch of pets in arena to get more buffs, so I don't see why they want to keep this in.
    Last edited by Lesane; 2014-04-25 at 05:46 PM.

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